Old tunnels - Portlaoise to Rock of Dunamase

ILA

Recently an acquaintance was telling me how the Heritage Society believed there were and may still be, a medieval tunnel (or tunnels) stretching almost 5km outside of Portlaoise to the Rock of Dunamase. I was interested in finding out more about them, and if anyone has heard of this before?

Augmerson

Haven't heard anything about it, not to say it isn't true though, but if there was, surely it would be known by now? I don't think it was the practice either in those times to build tunnels, but maybe I'm wrong.

An Ri rua

Tunnels between both locations would make little sense. As Augmerson says, the building of them doesn't suit the period when Portlaoise rose to prominence as a fort. Dunamaise previously being the main fort in the area, it was rendered useless about 100 yrs after Portlaoise sprang up.

I'd love to hear more about this. Search on www.offalyhistory.com as there's a lot of documents there on Co Laois (our counties being imaginary lines and poorly related to the older boundaries anyway).

A number of caves are to be found in Laois. The Dunamaise area would have unearthed ancient manmade graves (tunnels) inside hills; but a tunnel network of 5km, I would say almost impossible, when built and for what purpose?

An Ri rua

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_zj24w5eDsQJ:www.offalyhistory.com/articles/61/3/A-History-of-Offaly-Through-its-Monuments/Page3.html+tunnel+site:www.offalyhistory.com&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie&client=opera

"Sometimes there is a local tradition of a tunnel connecting one fort to another, this monument type is known as a souterrain and consists of an underground chamber or chambers which can be faced and roofed with stone or timber sometimes found in the centre of a ringfort."

Between ringforts. HIGHLY unlikely between the site of the English garrison at Portlaoise (that's what the town's first role was, unless I'm mistaken) and the ancient Dunamase.

**Vai**

I was told about this supposed tunnel when I was a kid, always thought it was just an old wives tale. Would be great if it was true though!

Dusty87

Same story about the castle in Ballinamere in offaly to Charleville Castle. Not sure of the truth of them though. Some swear on it, others say its bull. Im not sure about it tbh honest, but one thing i am sure is there is still plenty of stuff to be found in this country.

It would be a steep dig to get it up the hill to Dunamase wouldnt it:D

Augmerson

Another great site I wandered upon one night -

http://www.megalithicireland.com/

Very interesting, great if you want to go sightseeing around the country, and very good info about different sites. There is a section on sites in Laois - one on Dunamase, doesn't mention anything about tunnels, not that it's an exhaustively detailed account, but I think it's safe to say that there isn't any.

Redsunset

Well i'll be damned.
Ah but there are tunnels and i've been in them years ago.If memory serves me correct we could only go so far till it was blocked.Now the location of where i ventured is not too far from Portlaoise and i know the townland but where they are exactly again i'll have to find out and perhaps there linked to the Rock of Dunamase.Im not going to say where but i'll be certainly looking in to this now as i recall the tunnell being long.I had forgotten all bout it and must ask my cousin where the hell we were.

An Ri rua

redsunset wrote: »

Well i'll be damned.
Ah but there are tunnels and i've been in them years ago.If memory serves me correct we could only go so far till it was blocked.Now the location of where i ventured is not too far from Portlaoise and i know the townland but where they are exactly again i'll have to find out and perhaps there linked to the Rock of Dunamase.Im not going to say where but i'll be certainly looking in to this now as i recall the tunnell being long.I had forgotten all bout it and must ask my cousin where the hell we were.

You'd still be talking about a 5km tunnel. It's highly unlikely. Unless there was an existing cave system. There are caves in the area of Dunamaise but the rock-type doesn't support large cave networks, I don't think.

Anyway, if you find them, do let us know. Not where they are of course. But that they do exist, in some considerable size. THAT would be a revelation.

ILA

Good to see there's interest in this! I think it would be definitely worth looking into from a historical perspective.

MickShamrock

redsunset wrote: »

Well i'll be damned.
Ah but there are tunnels and i've been in them years ago.If memory serves me correct we could only go so far till it was blocked.Now the location of where i ventured is not too far from Portlaoise and i know the townland but where they are exactly again i'll have to find out and perhaps there linked to the Rock of Dunamase.Im not going to say where but i'll be certainly looking in to this now as i recall the tunnell being long.I had forgotten all bout it and must ask my cousin where the hell we were.

Any further development on your research?

pclancy

I lived beside the rock for a few years and I never heard anything about tunnels from the locals or found any myself and i walked the whole area a lot. I can't think of how they would actually be possible due to the geography of the land or how they serve any usefull purpose as An Ri rua rightly described.

During Dunamaise's golden years there were settlements opposite it (the name of the hill escapes me-Cromwell used it to shell the castle at one point) and in Dysart/Augnahilla areas straight across the road but they were just farming communities afaik. It might make sense for tunells between those areas as an escape during an attack but the castle itself is hundreds of feet up on top of solid bedrock, how would they have possibly done it with their kind of tools? On the south face there was a set of stairs that went down steeply the side of the cliff into the forest below, I always wondered was that were there might be some tunnels but its too steep to get down there.

Interesting stuff, i'd love to hear more from anyone that has some interesting facts about Dunamaise. Makes me feel homesick now to be the other side of the planet, have some great memories of summer evenings hanging out on the rock as a younger man

YAMEN2866

i heard years ago about tunnels around Portarlington going to Lea Castle or Corrig Spire,,,anyone else know of these?

An Ri rua

pclancy wrote: »

I lived beside the rock for a few years and I never heard anything about tunnels from the locals or found any myself and i walked the whole area a lot. I can't think of how they would actually be possible due to the geography of the land or how they serve any usefull purpose as An Ri rua rightly described.

During Dunamaise's golden years there were settlements opposite it (the name of the hill escapes me-Cromwell used it to shell the castle at one point) and in Dysart/Augnahilla areas straight across the road but they were just farming communities afaik. It might make sense for tunells between those areas as an escape during an attack but the castle itself is hundreds of feet up on top of solid bedrock, how would they have possibly done it with their kind of tools? On the south face there was a set of stairs that went down steeply the side of the cliff into the forest below, I always wondered was that were there might be some tunnels but its too steep to get down there.

Interesting stuff, i'd love to hear more from anyone that has some interesting facts about Dunamaise. Makes me feel homesick now to be the other side of the planet, have some great memories of summer evenings hanging out on the rock as a younger man

The hill across from Dunamaise is named Hewson's Hill as Colonel Hewson took up position there and shelled dunamaise into oblivion. Incidentally, he also did the same to Tinnahinch, which was formerly a very impressive citadel from which the O'Dunnes derived their motto "an Mullach Abú". Thereafter, they 'retired' to Clonaslee proper and its on that site in the village that Brittas House was built.
Ironic that Tinnahinch was literally levelled and left unusable as O'Duinn was styled 'Chief of demolition' in poems http://www.irishmidlandsancestry.com/content/family_history/families/odunne.htm

An Ri rua

YAMEN2866 wrote: »

i heard years ago about tunnels around Portarlington going to Lea Castle or Corrig Spire,,,anyone else know of these?

Just my tuppence worth, but Lea Castle would be plausible as its the ancestral power-base of the O'Dempsey territory. Corrig's spire was built during a 1700's famine to give employment to people. Under the orders of the 1st Dawson of note, Ephraim Dawson, grandfather of the 1st Earl (Emo Court). Perhaps the site had tunnels, but almost 100% not the case that they would have been constructed in Ephraim's time. It wouldn't make any strategic sense.

Headvance

I was in some cave ages ago up in the hills between Stradbally and Dunamaise. I was very young and I remember the guys at the time saying only young kids could fit down the real long thin entrance. I remember I could see dunamaise from the entrance I think. All I remember was going down this long entrance and getting as far as a big huge chamber. There was a massive boulder over the entrance. There were chambers leading off but I don't think we could fit down them or we were too scared. The main room was huge as far as I remember but maybe it was because I was so young. I do recall us talking about them linking to The Rock though. Maybe someone could confirm?

An Ri rua

I recall from www.irishmidlandsancestry.com that there were a number of burial chambers uncovered by Victorian era farmers. Near that area.

There are also the cave structures of Clopook and Luggacurren, both listed. Long passageways and hidden chambers being a feature.

But a tunnel to Dunamaise? Would be international level news in the archaeo-historical community I'd say.

MickShamrock

I love how people come on and mention these caves from their youth and then there's no follow up location or proof provided.

Headvance

MickShamrock wrote: »

I love how people come on and mention these caves from their youth and then there's no follow up location or proof provided.

Hold on there Mick 'till I get Google maps out here, actually I think there was a big neon sign just beside it, you can see it from the motorway.

hadoken13

MickShamrock wrote: »

I love how people come on and mention these caves from their youth and then there's no follow up location or proof provided.

Ha, brilliant! Was thinking the same thing. Come on people, how can you expect us to believe that you found and were in caves but cannot remember? What kind of mushrooms did ye have for lunch?

Corruptable

Apologies for dragging up this old thread, but I'd be interested in investigating these tunnels.

From what I've heard from people in the town is that there are various entrances at the following locations:

• The Stradbally Road past Warehousing 2000 (opposite side).
• The Burial Ridge on the Ridge Road, behind Browne's Shop.
• Another derelict gravesite between Railway Street and Church Street (adjacent to the old Social Welfare office).
• A rumoured opening in the basement of the Court House which was excavated a few years ago.

I saw the entrance on the Stradbally Road a number of years ago, but it is now unfortunately overgrown. Can anyone else verify the existence of any of the abovementioned entrances?

Any stories/legends/myths/facts you've heard over the years would be appreciated also.

harr

YAMEN2866 wrote: »

i heard years ago about tunnels around Portarlington going to Lea Castle or Corrig Spire,,,anyone else know of these?

Have heard of this tunnel as well,never seen any my self and i used to spend a lot of hours exploring around Lea castle was i was younger.

moose112

Seriously guys if any of these tunnels existed they would have been discovered when they had half of ballamackon dug up for the by-pass

stevemac

I don't believe for a second there are tunnels, but lets pretend you were living back then, and you wanted to build a tunnel. Would you start it in a graveyard? Surely a secret tunnel could be accidently dug up. And how long would it have taken them to build tunnels that long? And for what reason?

Was there a town/village in Portlaoise(Maryborough) before the fort was built? If there wasn't isn't there a time gap between when the two locations were used. If there was, was it big enough, important enough for such a big construction job to be secretly undertaken.