When will they scrap groupwork at uni?

Fionn MacCool

It's an absolute joke. When will unis realise this and stop making people work in groups.

It does not prepare you for the working world. In the working world your colleagues are qualified and capable, and if not they will be sacked.

Every project I've ever had to do, and every project I've known others to do, they've met up and decided who was doing what - then pissed off and done their bits (its not even group work, its just 4 people's essays or whatever slapped into one document) and the person unlucky enough to be 'team leader' had to chase everyone up for not doing stuff, then get a crap mark because they got put in a group with some spakker who copied half their stuff off the internet.

Ficheall

I'd agree with you that what comes of "group work" ventures in college is generally less than the sum of its parts, I wouldn't be so sure that it's not good preparation for the real world. It's entirely possible that you'll spend your life having to rely on incompetent and lazy people to do something. The working world does not necessarily imply capability or efficiency...

briano

Fionn MacCool wrote: »

...In the working world your colleagues are qualified and capable...

You may be in for a surprise. :eek:

Fionn MacCool

I suppose nobody wants to be the annoying one who keeps organising group meetings at 9am on a Friday and keeps hassling people to do their work either.

They should at least give extra marks to the team leader, that would encourage people do be a bit more proactive, as well as compensating them for the extra work they need to put in.

I've had a few 'group projects' where I've basically decided it would be easier and safer to do it pretty much all myself. I still said we did equal amounts though.

Protip: get an American in your group. Very (too) enthusastic, those chaps.

Fionn MacCool

briano wrote: »

You may be in for a surprise. :eek:

Yeah, knew someone would say this. In theory it's true though. You wouldn't expect a qualified website designer, for example, to have 0 input to a project and still walk away with a paycheck though.

red_fox

Fionn MacCool wrote: »

Yeah, knew someone would say this. In theory it's true though. You wouldn't expect a qualified website designer, for example, to have 0 input to a project and still walk away with a paycheck though.

And I wouldn't expect someone who put in "0" work to pass their exams no matter how many marks they pick up from group projects. Some people don't work, and then they quite appropriately fail. (some work very little and scrape by on repeats etc and live to to be lazy again, but this is in real life also)

Although it is a pity if they manage to drag someone else's grade down on their way.

challengemaster

One of DCU's science modules is groupwork based, and does a fairly good job with regards to awarding appropriate marks.

It's weekly assignment based, with each assignment having to be uploaded to moodle by a certain time/date. If this isn't done, the group gets 0%

After this, a quick MCQ is done where you rate the amount of work (1-4) that each group member did. (Normally 4 per group) The way this works is by a gradient percentage by score for each person. So, 13-16 = 100%, 8-12 = 75%, 4-7 = 50% or something along those lines.

Finally, a small paragraph has to be uploaded by each person (normally 3-4 days after the assignment was submitted) stating what each person did as part of that weeks assignment. Could be anything from solving problems to getting tea/biccies for the group, so long as it was something helpful. If the paragraph isn't uploaded, that group member gets 0% (taking it as they did nothing)

Seems to be a good way of working group assesment..

Fionn MacCool

challengemaster wrote: »

One of DCU's science modules is groupwork based, and does a fairly good job with regards to awarding appropriate marks.

It's weekly assignment based, with each assignment having to be uploaded to moodle by a certain time/date. If this isn't done, the group gets 0%

After this, a quick MCQ is done where you rate the amount of work (1-4) that each group member did. (Normally 4 per group) The way this works is by a gradient percentage by score for each person. So, 13-16 = 100%, 8-12 = 75%, 4-7 = 50% or something along those lines.

Finally, a small paragraph has to be uploaded by each person (normally 3-4 days after the assignment was submitted) stating what each person did as part of that weeks assignment. Could be anything from solving problems to getting tea/biccies for the group, so long as it was something helpful. If the paragraph isn't uploaded, that group member gets 0% (taking it as they did nothing)

Seems to be a good way of working group assesment..

Bollocks to that, just sounds like even more work!

The times I took on most of the project myself, I still said we all did equal amounts because it's not as if I'm going to get a grade boost for saying I did it all myself (prob get a lecture about how I should 'learn to work in a team':rolleyes:), and it's only going to get the other guys in trouble.

Raging_Ninja

Fionn MacCool wrote: »

Bollocks to that, just sounds like even more work!

The times I took on most of the project myself, I still said we all did equal amounts because it's not as if I'm going to get a grade boost for saying I did it all myself (prob get a lecture about how I should 'learn to work in a team':rolleyes:), and it's only going to get the other guys in trouble.

I would have complained to the lecturer if somebody wasn't doing anything in a group. I'm not interested in carrying other people through college, if they want to pass they do the work.

Not to say I won't help them if they ask for it, but I'm not going to do their work for them.

StupidLikeAFox

Fionn MacCool wrote: »

It's an absolute joke. When will unis realise this and stop making people work in groups.

It does not prepare you for the working world. In the working world your colleagues are qualified and capable, and if not they will be sacked.

Every project I've ever had to do, and every project I've known others to do, they've met up and decided who was doing what - then pissed off and done their bits (its not even group work, its just 4 people's essays or whatever slapped into one document) and the person unlucky enough to be 'team leader' had to chase everyone up for not doing stuff, then get a crap mark because they got put in a group with some spakker who copied half their stuff off the internet.

Fionn MacCool wrote:

I suppose nobody wants to be the annoying one who keeps organising group meetings at 9am on a Friday and keeps hassling people to do their work either.

There you have it, you want everybody to collaborate and work as a team but you don't want to drive the thing. Maybe your sitting back wondering why everybody isn't as good as you, but then not showing some leadership and taking the bull by the horns?

I mean if you are in a job and a team member isnt pulling their weight, are you gonna just go with the flow? Or - as you seem to be complaining about doing all the work yourself now, will you do that and give them a free ride?


Next time your in a group treat it as a job. Do your own work as best you can. If others arent pulling their weight say it to them. If they still dont, go to the lecturer or include it in your Peer Contribution Form.

I think this group work thing all stems from the school mentality. Nobody wants to stand out as being the "nerd" of the group. Personnally, I ****ing hate group work, I much prefer to plough into a project and do it on my own. However I do recognise that it probably teaches you a fair bit about a work environment and the politics of the workplace.

bildo

I was a bit annoyed with a few groupwork assignments I had to do this year. 3 in total and me being a transfer student was put into a group consisting soley of repeat students. What a joke! An entire group who had proven themselves to be slackers last year.
One of the assignments I ended up doing all on my own as the others didnt even reply to the emails I had been sending.

Ah well, only my name went on the work when I submitted it.

HotDogger

bildo wrote: »

I was a bit annoyed with a few groupwork assignments I had to do this year. 3 in total and me being a transfer student was put into a group consisting soley of repeat students. What a joke! An entire group who had proven themselves to be slackers last year.
One of the assignments I ended up doing all on my own as the others didnt even reply to the emails I had been sending.

Ah well, only my name went on the work when I submitted it.

That must have been difficult for you. Either way, these group projects help you become a proper "team player" - which is essential in today's modern and fast-paced work environment.

Fisher Calhoun

Get used to it, tbh. Remember that your college experience isn't just passing exams and group work forms an important part of your formal education. Think about what a potential employer will be looking for. If they have two candidates withe same qualifications and one has experience with group work and has shown that they can work well in a group, they'll have an advantage over the candidate who doesn't. The working world is all about being able to work well with others. In that there are arseholes who don't pull their weight in projects/etc and that's a fact of life. So, back to the original point, get used to it!

Boo Radley

Fisher Calhoun wrote: »

Get used to it, tbh. Remember that your college experience isn't just passing exams and group work forms an important part of your formal education. Think about what a potential employer will be looking for. If they have two candidates withe same qualifications and one has experience with group work and has shown that they can work well in a group, they'll have an advantage over the candidate who doesn't. The working world is all about being able to work well with others. In that there are arseholes who don't pull their weight in projects/etc and that's a fact of life. So, back to the original point, get used to it!

I had many a job and have never once had to talk about group work at college during an interview. I think you're over rating the importance of it. It may have some merits but if it stopped tomorrow I doubt it would affect many peoples prospects of getting a job. You learn much more valuable interpersonal relationship skills working in a real job on a regular basis. You build and maintain working relationships. Group work at college is not all you're cracking it up to be.

StupidLikeAFox

Boo Radley wrote: »

I had many a job and have never once had to talk about group work at college during an interview.

Just because it doesnt come up in interview doesnt mean its not important.

Boo Radley

ColHol wrote: »

Just because it doesnt come up in interview doesnt mean its not important.

If you say so.

Maybe if you take your time and read my post instead of taking a quote out of context you might realise I didn't claim there was no merit to it. FFS.

DoireNod

Fisher Calhoun wrote: »

Get used to it, tbh. Remember that your college experience isn't just passing exams and group work forms an important part of your formal education.

The 'college exerience', as you put it, is, for me at least, about educating myself first and foremost. I don't need to work within a group to learn. This may come as a surprise to you, but some people are much more prodigious when working alone without the tasking burden of having to rely on others (terrible thing). However, in a sense, you could say that it really depends on the subject that one may be reading. Certain science subjects require a lot of team-work, whereas in English, I find it difficult to justify group-work.

Fisher Calhoun wrote: »

Think about what a potential employer will be looking for. If they have two candidates withe same qualifications and one has experience with group work and has shown that they can work well in a group, they'll have an advantage over the candidate who doesn't. The working world is all about being able to work well with others. In that there are arseholes who don't pull their weight in projects/etc and that's a fact of life. So, back to the original point, get used to it!

At college, group-work, like exams, is just a process of jumping through hoops and most people just go through the motions. As has been said, I reckon you've put too much emphasis on the importance of group projects. An employer isn't going to know (or care) that Mr X once worked well within a group in his History seminar in semester one of his final year.

HotDogger

DoireNod wrote: »

An employer isn't going to know (or care) that Mr X once worked well within a group in his History seminar in semester one of his final year.

It bloody well will. Teams playerz trump all. Having not been part of a group project is like not having a college education at all.

Boo Radley

HotDogger wrote: »

It bloody well will. Teams playerz trump all. Having not been part of a group project is like not having a college education at all.

That is a completely ridiculous claim. Made me smile

Bogger77

HotDogger wrote: »

It bloody well will. Teams playerz trump all. Having not been part of a group project is like not having a college education at all.

either this is sarcasm, or you've never worked in the real world?

bildo

I would hope that most graduates would have a little more relevant group working experiences than some silly assignments at college. Like er... a job?

yermanoffthetv

Bogger77 wrote: »

either this is sarcasm, or you've never worked in the real world?

Err actually no hes right. Employers go mad for the group work experience, seriously! Its because youve gaind a baisic experience learing to cope working with all kinds of folks (including lazy sods who never pull their weight) and get on with work given to you and not sit around whinging and waiting for instructions. This WILL happen in the real world believe me only youll be working in about 3 groups at the same time!

Fionn MacCool

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Err actually no hes right. Employers go mad for the group work experience, seriously! Its because youve gaind a baisic experience learing to cope working with all kinds of folks (including lazy sods who never pull their weight) and get on with work given to you and not sit around whinging and waiting for instructions. This WILL happen in the real world believe me only youll be working in about 3 groups at the same time!

This is true. Most job interviews I've had I've talked about some fictional group project I did and talk about how great it was to work in a team and stuff.