Christmas in an Atheist house

Ciaramb92

In Ireland, what do you do (if anything) for Christmas, and does 'Santa' come to your children? Do your family/friends/neighbors etc. make any judgments (negatively/positively)

I'm 18 and an atheist, but the rest of the family (extended inc.) are Catholic so I do 'celebrate' it in the loosest sense of the word. I know when I have kids that I won't raise them as Catholics (I won't discourage them from believing in 'God' if that's what they believe.. anyway that's another issue) but I've always wondered what I would do at Christmas..

Anyone want to share?

Thank-you!

pH

Ciaramb92 wrote: »

In Ireland, what do you do (if anything) for Christmas, and does 'Santa' come to your children? Do your family/friends/neighbors etc. make any judgments (negatively/positively)

I'm 18 and an atheist, but the rest of the family (extended inc.) are Catholic so I do 'celebrate' it in the loosest sense of the word. I know when I have kids that I won't raise them as Catholics (I won't discourage them from believing in 'God' if that's what they believe.. anyway that's another issue) but I've always wondered what I would do at Christmas..

Anyone want to share?

Thank-you!

Well if you don't believe in God and aren't part of an organised religion, I'd suggest that you stay away from church services or worshipping any deities, and instead stick to the non-religious aspects of Christmas such as decorated fir trees, Santa, turkey dinners, family gatherings, cards, presents, parties, fairy lights and mince pies.

Just be careful not to pray to any gods you don't believe in and you'll be fine.

hth.

Raze_them_all

Technically chrstmas has nothing to do with Jesus as they moved the date to concide with a pagen festivile IIRC

Ciaramb92

Yeah, I was wondering do Atheists still do the whole tree and turkey business..

Church.. What's that?

pH

Ciaramb92 wrote: »

Yeah, I was wondering do Atheists still do the whole tree and turkey business..

I'm not sure what you think sitting down with your family and eating turkey with a funny hat on has to do with religion?

I think you'll find us atheists do what we like

gothicus

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Technically chrstmas has nothing to do with Jesus as they moved the date to concide with a pagen festivile IIRC

who is they exactly? im not religious but the 25th decemeber is suppose to be Jesus's birthday, so they hardly change his birthday to suit pagans, its mere concidence. As for celebrating xmas, well, its just a holiday festival, perhaps harder for Christians to enjoy than non Christians as their main religious festivial has been hijacked and is nothing short of a way to make money out of people for things they dont really need.

Raze_them_all

gothicus wrote: »

who is they exactly? im not religious but the 25th decemeber is suppose to be Jesus's birthday, so they hardly change his birthday to suit pagans, its mere concidence. As for celebrating xmas, well, its just a holiday festival, perhaps harder for Christians to enjoy than non Christians as their main religious festivial has been hijacked and is nothing short of a way to make money out of people for things they dont really need.

Actually I remember reading that he was born months before hand.

gothicus

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Actually I remember reading that he was born months before hand.

were did u read that, was that in the dead sea scrolls or sumting?? :pac: I think u will find older documents that suggest the 25th december was Jesus's birthday and predated the fall of pagamism and the rise of Constantines Christainity.

Raze_them_all

gothicus wrote: »

were did u read that, was that in the dead sea scrolls or sumting?? :pac: I think u will find older documents that suggest the 25th december was Jesus's birthday and predated the fall of pagamism and the rise of Constantines Christainity.

There is also this old thing that suggests a being made the universe, I don't pay it much heed eaither.

Goduznt Xzst

Well I'd imagine the Atheist tradition is to do everything the same as Christians do at Christmas, except instead of going to mass the garden variety Atheist will traditionally go online and sign into internet forums and let Christians know why he is justified in celebrating their holiday.

Curiously, this requires a Christian to initially pose a question similar to "Why do Atheists celebrate Christmas?". I'd of thought Christians wouldn't oblige in this regard, as it requires them to annually observe this Atheist tradition.

But I was mistaken. Every year around this time Christians flock to internet forums to show their support for the Atheist Christmas and pose the same questions, and in return, we Atheists roll out all our favourite rebuttals that are now as stale as that bag of turkey in the back of the freezer from last years Atheist Christmas.

Like that pair of itchy knitted socks from Aunty Mary, these threads are mostly useless and will only see the light of day for the few days of Christmas, but it wouldn't be Christmas without them.

ShooterSF

Some background to it here:

http://www.essortment.com/all/christmaspagan_rece.htm

gothicus

Raze_them_all wrote: »

There is also this old thing that suggests a being made the universe, I don't pay it much heed eaither.

its either made by a being or created out of a chaos of molecules. its very possible the universe was created from nothing but an explosion, we however may owe our faith to something more tangible which is why religion persists. Mother Earth as a being is more real to me than pie in the sky though.

Keith186

I'm going to enjoy my time off with the family have dinner and all that stuff.
Wont be visiting mass. Suppose its not too much different than what Catholics will be doing apart from lack of mass.

Regarding Jesus' birthday don't see JC on the birthday list here??

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_25?wasRedirected=true

I learned in school that many Christian holidays were moved to pagan holidays to help ease the transition from paganism to christianity. I believe it was done in ancient Rome times.

Keith186

ShooterSF wrote: »

Some background to it here:

http://www.essortment.com/all/christmaspagan_rece.htm

Only read this after my post. Thanks for the link.

gothicus

Keith186 wrote: »

I learned in school that many Christian holidays were moved to pagan holidays to help ease the transition from paganism to christianity. I believe it was done in ancient Rome times.

this is true to a point, however apart from the 25th december, which was the date of Sol Invicitus and Sun worship which preceeded Christianinty, there is not many if any notable changes in which one can say Christianinty changed their structure to accomodate pagans, the transisition was down to internal WAR in Rome and the fact that Constantine claimed his success in becoming Emperor and beating all his enemies was due to the christian god watching over him.

OMG!! were is the Roman forum?? :pac:

Ciaramb92

gothicus wrote: »

were did u read that, was that in the dead sea scrolls or sumting?? :pac: I think u will find older documents that suggest the 25th december was Jesus's birthday and predated the fall of pagamism and the rise of Constantines Christainity.

Nope, 'Jesus' was apparently born in January or something.

Was a 12 month calender even in use when the fairytale began?

Mark Hamill

gothicus wrote: »

were did u read that, was that in the dead sea scrolls or sumting?? :pac: I think u will find older documents that suggest the 25th december was Jesus's birthday and predated the fall of pagamism and the rise of Constantines Christainity.

The oldest document dating christmas to 25th December is the Chronography of 354. However the bible itself actually suggests a September birth, as shepherds wouldn't have been out with animals on a cold winter night. The 25th date correpsonds with the winter solstice, which was celebrated in several pagan religions and societies, such as Saturnalia and Jul.

liamw

Eh what's the religious part of christmas?

Mark Hamill

gothicus wrote: »

this is true to a point, however apart from the 25th december, which was the date of Sol Invicitus and Sun worship which preceeded Christianinty, there is not many if any notable changes in which one can say Christianinty changed their structure to accomodate pagans, the transisition was down to internal WAR in Rome and the fact that Constantine claimed his success in becoming Emperor and beating all his enemies was due to the christian god watching over him.

OMG!! were is the Roman forum?? :pac:

In terms of christmas, gift-giving and merrymaking came from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity came from the Roman New Year; and Yule logs and various foods came from Germanic feasts.
Easter is named after the pagan god Eostre, the eggs where pagan symbols of the earth back as far as the zoroastrians.
Then you have things like the halo, which was a symbol for pagan sun gods, the general image of god as an old man is a rip of greek imagery of Zeus and plenty of christian wedding traditions are pagan in nature (Plenty of examples here)

DazMarz

I am a committed atheist, and I have no problem in celebrating Christmas... in my own way.

This consists of overindulgence on all manner of foods, lounging around watching films and/or television, laughing at religious B.S. and generally doing as little as possible!!!

Ickle Magoo

liamw wrote: »

Eh what's the religious part of christmas?

^^ This. In my house - my own and familial - the only religious reference to be found over the christmas holidays is the odd christmas card with a depiction of angels or a nativity and even they are few and far between.

Dades

I have no problem celebrating Santa's birthday.

mikhail

Ciaramb92 wrote: »

Yeah, I was wondering do Atheists still do the whole tree and turkey business..

Most definitely.

Jeremiah 10:2-4 (New International Version)

2 This is what the LORD says:

“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.

Zombrex

• I don't believe in Santa, I still put stockings up (this year with a dancing electronic puppy from Penny's)
  
• I don't work in a bank, I still take bank holidays
  
• I don't worship Christ, I still have Christmas dinner.
  
• I don't worship Saturn, I still take Saturday off and have a lie in.
  
• I don't believe Patrick was a saint, I still get pissed on St. Patricks Day (getting alcohol poisoning being the traditional way to celebrate a saints day apparently).
  
• I don't believe evil spirits visit the Earth at the end of October, I still dress up in costumes.

I think people would have a lot easier time understanding atheist attitudes to Christmas if they just thought of all the holidays and festivals they celebrate without taking literally.

Zombrex

mikhail wrote: »

Most definitely.

+1

Christmas is a celebration of materialism and over indulgence. Really the only people who shouldn't be celebrating Christmas are Christians.

yellowlabrador

My holiday consists of a nice walk with the doggies, a quiet afternoon, a stressfree evening with my grownup children. We have no xmastree, turkey, extravagant presents or any other of the usual traditions. This grew over the years as my children grew up. They weren't big on santys climbing down chimneys, turkeys, sprouts etc. Our celebrations evolved to a day we can all enjoy, with no pressures. I cook the days before and we have a cold buffet, we also have lots of usually forbidden treats and I also include a trip to Drombeg stone circle on the solstice, because there is the root of the festival. I celebrate th fact that the days are going to grow longer and spring is round th corner
I say each to his own, do what YOU enjoy.http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

Sure if a little bit of religious symbolism creeps into your Christmas, what of it?
I for one am a big fan of fantasy books, so I think little of it.

Pygmalion

It's just like Christian's celebrating Christmas, except instead of giving gifts we steal from the poor, and instead of eating turkey, we eat babies.

amacachi

I bought a dangerous amount of alcohol over the border yesterday, that's how I'm planning to celebrate these four weeks off college I'm getting, whatever the "reason" for them is. A couple of turkey & ham dinners and a few days of leftovers sandwiches is a lovely bonus as well.

gothicus

Mark Hamill wrote: »

In terms of christmas, gift-giving and merrymaking came from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity came from the Roman New Year; and Yule logs and various foods came from Germanic feasts.
Easter is named after the pagan god Eostre, the eggs where pagan symbols of the earth back as far as the zoroastrians.
Then you have things like the halo, which was a symbol for pagan sun gods, the general image of god as an old man is a rip of greek imagery of Zeus and plenty of christian wedding traditions are pagan in nature (Plenty of examples here)

the term adoption is flawed, christians held their beliefs long before it superseded paganism and were persecuted for these beliefs. Yule logs ffs candles were/are used by all peoples regardless of their religion, the combining of beliefs were one takes over from the other naturally involves adapatation, its pointless to say one religion is simply an evolution of another by using material objects as an argument.

Mark Hamill

gothicus wrote: »

the term adoption is flawed,

Appropiated then? Acquired? Stole?

gothicus wrote: »

christians held their beliefs long before it superseded paganism and were persecuted for these beliefs.

Your grammar here is terrible. Are you saying that the traditions of merry making, decortaing etc were christian before they were pagan?

gothicus wrote: »

Yule logs ffs candles were/are used by all peoples regardless of their religion,

A yule log is not a candle, its a log.

gothicus wrote: »

the combining of beliefs were one takes over from the other naturally involves adapatation, its pointless to say one religion is simply an evolution of another by using material objects as an argument.

Who said this? You claimed that christianity took very very little from other religions and made almost no changes to suit pagans. All the evidence says you are wrong. Very little of modern christian holidays are solely christian in origin.

recedite

Christmas is the one day in the year when it's acceptable for an atheist to attend Church.
You know that guy who stumbles in towards the end of Midnight Mass, smelling of drink, and shouts at the priest? That's me. Its a tradition. :pac:

gothicus

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Appropiated then? Acquired? Stole?

Transition

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Your grammar here is terrible. Are you saying that the traditions of merry making, decortaing etc were christian before they were pagan?

what part of my grammer is terrible?? no im not saying that at all, merry making, decortaing etc will be done by all people regardless of religion

Mark Hamill wrote: »

A yule log is not a candle, its a log.

i thought it was some sort of desert!

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Who said this? You claimed that christianity took very very little from other religions and made almost no changes to suit pagans. All the evidence says you are wrong. Very little of modern christian holidays are solely christian in origin.

the beliefs of christians are christian in origin, some might say christians are an offshoot of Jews but their fates are clearly different. whatever the combination of dates and times it took from other religions was merely to facilitate their christianisation, i dont believe christians changed to much of their inner beliefs to facilitate pagins if anything it was the other way around.

Mark Hamill

gothicus wrote: »

Transition

Ok, the church transitioned some pagan traditions into their own.

gothicus wrote: »

what part of my grammer is terrible??

This bit here: christians held their beliefs long before it superseded paganism and were persecuted for these beliefs. The underlined bit looks like it has too many, or too few words.

gothicus wrote: »

no im not saying that at all, merry making, decortaing etc will be done by all people regardless of religion

But do you admit that they where done long before christianity existed, and were not actually part of the general christmas observances when christianity was still a young religion?

gothicus wrote: »

i thought it was some sort of desert!

The desert is named after the tradition of cutting down a big log and leaving it in a hearth over the holiday. The name comes from the name of the germanic festival it originated from, Jul.

gothicus wrote: »

the beliefs of christians are christian in origin, some might say christians are an offshoot of Jews but their fates are clearly different. whatever the combination of dates and times it took from other religions was merely to facilitate their christianisation, i dont believe christians changed to much of their inner beliefs to facilitate pagins if anything it was the other way around.

Well, as we have seen in this thread, quite a few of the traditions associated with the big christian holidays are originally pagan in nature. But there is also a lot of general christian imagery which is pagan in origin: halos (sun gods), the idea of god as an old man (zeus), the serpent in the garden of eden (the jews were, for a long time, oppress by the babylonians, so who better to make the villian in the bible, than the serpent worshipping babylonians deity?). Here is a short list of common things believed by christians that have no basis in the bible.

aidan24326

Ciaramb92 wrote: »

...but I've always wondered what I would do at Christmas!

Just do what you always do, if that involves the usual turkey dinner, presents etc then great. You're just celebrating it minus the religious context, and you certainly don't need to change that. Cultural influences have turned it into much more than just a religious festival anyway.

gothicus wrote: »

who is they exactly? im not religious but the 25th decemeber is suppose to be Jesus's birthday

The fact is that nobody knows for sure when exactly Jesus was born. The bible is unsurprisingly vague on specifics, and even historians of that period can't agree. But the fact there were newborn lambs around suggests Spring, and that seems to be as much as anyone has to go on. There's no particular agreement on exactly what year he was born either, as far as I know. It just highlights how little is really known about the actual man* that Jesus was, as opposed to the myth that's been created.

*taking it on trust that there really even was such a man.

jill_valentine

I eat an enormous pile of turkey and ham, hang out with my family, drink some wine, and laugh at nonsense. We open the presents after dinner, then I have a pile of trifle and fall asleep flat out on the carpet in front of the fire, in a manner not unlike that of a snake that's after eating a moose full of brandy and needs a month or so to burn it off.

It's great.

Overheal

Jesus wasn't taken off the cross by elves, you know.

Heck, outside of nativity scenes there really isn't that much thats Christian about Christmas aside from the name.

robindch

Overheal wrote: »

Heck, outside of nativity scenes there really isn't that much thats Christian about Christmas aside from the name.

Been to Lansdowne Road recently?

Overheal

robindch wrote: »

Been to Lansdowne Road recently?

controversy! But in fairness to Come All Ye Faithful, the song isn't inherently Christmassy, it's just Christian; Gospel Choir fare.