Why are some street drugs illegal?

CorkMan

Drugs like Cannabis, LSD, Ectasy don't do a lot of harm to you. I am a fully grown adult and find it annoying that I have to go to Amsterdam to smoke some cannabis. I don't know where to find LSD, probably from some very dodgy hoodie down a backstreet who'd could knife you for your money.

LSD opens your mind, make the images in your mind much more vivid, expand you. It doesn't get you high or anything, it isn't heroin, cocaine or crack. It is an introspective drug that lets you see more into your self. Instead I can't have it if I choose too, me; no convictions, not a scumbag, just your average citizen. I have no doubt if it was legalised it could be refined to be much better aswell.

The same goes for Cannabis, it relaxes your mind, bringing you to a more dreamlike state but you being able to consciously alter it. It doesn't elevate your mood, or bring it down when coming off the drug.Regards ectasy, I got a party pills before form Maaad (which are supposed to be "harder" than street ectasy these days) and had one. I just became more sociable, talking more freely to people where I used to live before. No lows or anything. My cousins was on anti-psychotics before and I took some as I needed to get to sleep; I slept for 17 hours! They were may more stronger than any LSD, Cannabis or Ectasy, but are being giving out life smarties by Doctors who get their free trip to Miami every year.

It is wrong IMO that people can get a 2litre of 40%vol vodka and a slab of cans for themselves yet not get arrested or anything. Sure 90%vol "Poteen" has been legalised in the last decade. I would never take heroin, cocaine, crack, crystal meth etc, ie the hard drugs. Just some drugs that have a slight effect on your mood, but I can't. They should be legalised IMO, it is "against the law" that they are not legalised IMO.

Davaeo09

I hear ya man!
Sadly the vast majority doesn't

mikemac

CorkMan wrote: »

Drugs like Cannabis, LSD, Ectasy don't do a lot of harm to you.

Well the media would tell you different.
We are told that LSD causes flashbacks years later and airline pilots who take it will lose their license. In case they have flashbacks while piloting an airplane.

And we read stories of rat poison and all sorts of fillers in ecstasy.

I've not tried any of these drugs, just going by what the media tells me and everyone else.

But I do agree that consuming vast quantities of the legal drug alcohol that ends up in fighting, possibly domestic abuse, drink driving and a host of other crimes doesn't make it a harmless drug at all. Taking drugs in the comfort of your own house may cause less harm all around.

As for 90% poteen? :eek: I'd never heard of this, that's close to lethal if consumed in any quantity

beagle001

Op
Not sure what LSD you have taken that does not get you high,it blows your mind for a good 10 hrs.
Actually I would def b against legalising it as I have seen many casualties from it back in the day.
Weeds a diff story but it is Ireland and ain't gonna happen.

CorkMan

feelingstressed wrote: »

As for 90% poteen? :eek: I'd never heard of this, that's close to lethal if consumed in any quantity

From Poteen wikipedia

Poteen Wiki wrote:

Today, two Irish brands are officially licensed to produce poitín, Knockeen Hills, and Bunratty.[3] Their products are, however, far removed from the coarse illegal poitin produced in the past. Indeed Bunratty is single distilled and only 40% or 45% ABV, far weaker than illegally distilled poitin. Knockeen Hills however, comes in at various strengths from 55% to 90% ABV, varying from triple-distilled to quadruple-distilled

Next post

beagle001 wrote: »

Op
Not sure what LSD you have taken that does not get you high,it blows your mind for a good 10 hrs.
Actually I would def b against legalising it as I have seen many casualties from it back in the day.
Weeds a diff story but it is Ireland and ain't gonna happen.

With LSD you need to be in a controlled enviorment and be in a positive mood. There are 2 vital characteristics of a good trip. If you are depressed, etc you will have a bad trip.

When I say high I mean elevated mood, taking you from normal to high, or low to high. LSD doesn't do this. If you take LSD when depressed you will still be depressed. When normal, you will still be normal.

Mercy Seat

Hear hear!

Have to agree with the OP for the most part here. Cannabis, I would love to see legalised and regulated. As it is, it's easier young teens to get their hands on than alcohol and I'm not happy with the idea of kids smoking weed before their brains are fully developed and when they don't truly realise the potential consequences, not to mention the negative impact on schoolwork that is strongly associated with teen consumption of marijuana. However, I believe that as an adult, we should have the right to choose what we do with our bodies.

E - I would love to see legalised and regulated - imagine - uncut E! Actually safer than what people are currently taking, plus, the chance to educate widely on the safety aspects of using the drug - e.g., water consumption.

LSD - I'm not so sure about. I love it, don't get me wrong, it's my drug of choice, a thousand times over, but I'm not sure how I feel about it being widely available to the general public. Used in safe environments, and the more experience with it the better, but I can sort of imagine it being used a lot more often in public places, and in larger doses than necessary. Think of all those extra people on the streets freaking out!

I'm not necessarily saying that people who currently access it are a lot better, but people who do are usually more involved in drug culture, are often more sensible around it and have made the conscious effort to seek it out, and pay for it (and where I am anyway, it's rarely particularly cheap).

I just worry about it being available to more idiots than it already is. That said, as an alternative to alcohol... I think I'd rather run into more trippers on a Friday night than drunks.

feelingstressed wrote: »

Well the media would tell you different.
We are told that LSD causes flashbacks years later and airline pilots who take it will lose their license. In case they have flashbacks while piloting an airplane.

That's fair enough really. It's up to a person to make the decisions and to be aware of how it could impact their future. I think it's pretty safe for me to say that I won't ever be flying a plane, I'd hate to think that I would be denied the experiences I have had on acid (and I am truly grateful for many of those, have certainly been eye openers and have been integrated largely into my own personal philosophies) purely because of pilots' policies.

And we read stories of rat poison and all sorts of fillers in ecstasy.

That wouldn't be an issue if they were legalised/regulated though.

I've not tried any of these drugs, just going by what the media tells me and everyone else.

Gotta remember how much the media love sensationalising things, scare-mongering and that many are coming from strongly anti-drug biases.

Taking drugs in the comfort of your own house may cause less harm all around.

Definitely agree with this. Though you can't beat a good band/gig/musicparty on some good 'cid or E.

CorkMan wrote: »

With LSD you need to be in a controlled enviorment and be in a positive mood. There are 2 vital characteristics of a good trip. If you are depressed, etc you will have a bad trip.

Completely disagree with that last sentence. I find trips just about always bring me out of depression. Something about the feeling of total wellbeing, everything sparkling, all the colours, and the enhanced beauty and magnificence of everything around me fills me with such positive feelings that I can hold close to me weeks after the trip, just keep holding on to the beauty that I know is there.

I think trips can always go either way. It's possible for a bad headspace to happen at any point of any trip, no matter how controlled the environment.

When I say high I mean elevated mood, taking you from normal to high, or low to high. LSD doesn't do this. If you take LSD when depressed you will still be depressed. When normal, you will still be normal.

Entirely disagree with this. I know different acid will usually have different effects - some stuff will be stronger, more hallucinogenic, more feelings of wellbeing etc, but again, the reason I fell in love with it in the first place was for the elated feeling that comes with it and I know that that applies to everyone in the group that I tend to trip with.

HavingCrack

I'd legalise most drugs I reckon with the possible exceptions of heroin, crack (despite my name :pac:) and crystal meth. However what you have to realise is that with legalisation comes responsibilities and possible lost opportunities. If you voluntarily choose to take acid for example an airlines have a strict policy of drug testing any potential and/or current pilots for acid in their system the airline should have the right. People and businesses should have autonomy to do what they like as long as it doesn't interfere with anyone elses safety and personal liberty.

Basically you can put whatever drug you want into your body, whether its E, alcohol, weed, cocaine etc but the moment you and your drugs begin to interfere with anyone elses safety you'll have to face the consequences. Likewise if you have the liberty to take drugs airlines would have the right to refuse to employ drug users, it would be only fair.

CorkMan

Mercy Seat wrote: »

Completely disagree with that last sentence. I find trips just about always bring me out of depression. Something about the feeling of total wellbeing, everything sparkling, all the colours, and the enhanced beauty and magnificence of everything around me fills me with such positive feelings that I can hold close to me weeks after the trip, just keep holding on to the beauty that I know is there.

But I often heard if you are down it causes you to have a bad trip, sometimes terrifying.


I think trips can always go either way. It's possible for a bad headspace to happen at any point of any trip, no matter how controlled the environment.

But I often heard if you are down it causes you to have a bad trip, sometimes terrifying.

Entirely disagree with this. I know different acid will usually have different effects - some stuff will be stronger, more hallucinogenic, more feelings of wellbeing etc, but again, the reason I fell in love with it in the first place was for the elated feeling that comes with it and I know that that applies to everyone in the group that I tend to trip with.

But there are no severe withdrawal system, it doesn't get you as elated as cocaine or heroine.

HavingCrack, I completely agree with you. It would only be fair for people to be tested as they are now. A drunk pilot isn't allowed to fly as he would be dangerous. I also agree with still leaving out crack, heroin and crysal meth.

ChocolateSauce

feelingstressed wrote: »

Well the media would tell you different.
We are told that LSD causes flashbacks years later and airline pilots who take it will lose their license. In case they have flashbacks while piloting an airplane.

And we read stories of rat poison and all sorts of fillers in ecstasy.

I've not tried any of these drugs, just going by what the media tells me and everyone else.

But I do agree that consuming vast quantities of the legal drug alcohol that ends up in fighting, possibly domestic abuse, drink driving and a host of other crimes doesn't make it a harmless drug at all. Taking drugs in the comfort of your own house may cause less harm all around.

As for 90% poteen? :eek: I'd never heard of this, that's close to lethal if consumed in any quantity

Well what the media says about them is worthless. I only care what science and the evidence has to say about them.

Hank Scorpio

Friend of a friend had a heart attack at the age of 22 after taking estacy one weekend, lucky to be alive

To say estacy isnt dangerous is like saying chewing on an electrical cable is safe

I used to take it a fair bit back in the day, stopped after getting terrible heart palpatations after doing it one night, not to mention you feel like utter sh1t for a day or two afterwards

Mark Hamill

nuxxx wrote: »

Friend of a friend had a heart attack at the age of 22 after taking estacy one weekend, lucky to be alive

To say estacy isnt dangerous is like saying chewing on an electrical cable is safe

I used to take it a fair bit back in the day, stopped after getting terrible heart palpatations after doing it one night, not to mention you feel like utter sh1t for a day or two afterwards

Could this not be because of the crap its cut with? (an issue that would presumably disappear if the sale was regulated)

danielmoran

I do not agree these drugs are illegal for a reason.
They are unpredicably dangerous and cause problems in all areas of life. E.g. Health Etc.

Mark Hamill

danielmoran wrote: »

I do not agree these drugs are illegal for a reason.
They are unpredicably dangerous and cause problems in all areas of life. E.g. Health Etc.

Like alcohol you mean?

danielmoran

yes like alcohol. we have guidelines on alcohol(Admitidly not adhered to but thats the nature of irish people) I feel cannabis could be legalised and the country could make some money aswel as taking it from the hands of the criminals. Poitin is not readily available. you can't just walk into tesco and buy a bottle.

CorkMan

danielmoran wrote: »

yes like alcohol. we have guidelines on alcohol(Admitidly not adhered to but thats the nature of irish people) I feel cannabis could be legalised and the country could make some money aswel as taking it from the hands of the criminals. Poitin is not readily available. you can't just walk into tesco and buy a bottle.

It wouldn't be available from Tescos, but at a local alcohol store in the likes of Macroom or Killarney. It did get legalised in that people no longer have to make it, but it is not mass made yet. I heard the same for Absinthe.

For the drugs, I don't think they are dangerous. I had a Party Pill from "Maaad" which is supposed to be the same as ectasy, if not stronger than some street ectasy tablets these days. I didn't feel at risk. I would suggest if LSD were to be regulated, you couldn't have only 8-12 hour trip version. Maybe 2-3 hours and up. A very basic version for beginners.

delonglad

I'm on the fence on this one, while I think they should be legalised i'm slightly put off at the fact it would be in the hands of so many retards, especially lsd. LSD is from what I have read and watched a great drug for a mature drug user who knows what their doing but in the hands of a gob****e it is an accident waiting to happen.

The only positive for me would be the quality if legalised and legislated would be better than the crap people are taking at the moment. Living with a moderaate enough drug user during college and watching him suffer for 2 days after a heavy drug session(E and cannabis) and trying to make the point that sitting in his room for hours on end and then suffering for 2 days the best craic ever. This to me suggests that the quality of it is pure ****. Its kind of like having a few pints in a nightclub your in for a serious hangover because of the bad beer, drink good beer in a respectable pub and you wake up a bit groggy but fine.

If you legalise it you make it more readily available to idiots but improve quality/make safer / keep it illegal and you drive it more underground which has negative effects on the user and on society.

I've seen friends die because of drugs and I wouldn't just blame the person who put the drugs in their hands I also put blame to society for driving them underground to fulfill their needs.

Mercy Seat

HavingCrack wrote: »

I'd legalise most drugs I reckon with the possible exceptions of heroin, crack (despite my name :pac:) and crystal meth.

I think I'd actually agree on the crystal meth and crack, and heroin to a degree. Would like to see more heroin clinics in Ireland, and more reasonable access to clean needles, which is a big problem in Ireland, but that's a whole other thread.

CorkMan wrote: »

But I often heard if you are down it causes you to have a bad trip, sometimes terrifying.

I'd heard that before, and was apprehensive and wouldn't take it for ages, but have been taking it quite regularly now for about two years, often up to 3-4 times a week when supply and my finances coincide in a happy way, and have yet to have a bad trip like that, and truly do find it lifts my depression in a somewhat longterm way too.

But there are no severe withdrawal system, it doesn't get you as elated as cocaine or heroine.

I've not had a comedown from acid alone yet, but combining it with alcohol and/or speed (dephetamine, ketamine, BZP, etc) usually leaves me stuck on the couch the next day - not feeling like ****, no physical pain or depression/low, but just tired, and is a very much designated couch and tv day.

Actually, another thing I'd love to see decriminalised is magic mushrooms.

And valium, but that's probably more my wishful thinking than anything practical or helpful.

feelingstressed

feelingstressed wrote: »

Well the media would tell you different.

The media isn't exactly the most credible of references. They seek to make a drama of everything, so its hardly in their best interests to provide a balanced outlook on the subject. Besides, up until only recently the RTE continued to play the government line hardly ever digging deeper to give people the choice on realistic information.

In this area, you can find a research paper which support any position you care to take. And you can find two which will prove otherwise. TBH I find all the research done on drugs to be rather.... dodgy.

We are told that LSD causes flashbacks years later and airline pilots who take it will lose their license. In case they have flashbacks while piloting an airplane.

I've been told a lot of things over the years about both drugs and alcohol, and yet in the vast majority I have not met anyone who has experienced them. I've never received any flashbacks and during my twenties I heavily indulged in these kinds of drugs. I have had "bad" trips but very manageable. The thing I always find funny about the anti-drug factions, is that in their drive to abolish all drugs, they also destroy the knowledge to us drugs in a secure & practical manner. There are things which can be done to bring someone down during a bad trip, but these factions/groups refuse people the tools/knowledge to control such. Muppets.

TBH the only after effects I'm aware of (I'm in my mid-thirties now)are a slight slowdown in thinking from the serious amount of cannabis I smoked. But honestly, I find that an acceptable cost for the sheer amount of fun I've had over the years.

And we read stories of rat poison and all sorts of fillers in ecstasy.

Which is a clear indication that some drugs should be legalised and produced in a safe manner. As with any drugs, including illegal cigarettes, some of the people selling it will seek to make money as possible. But then legal cigarette companies still to this day refuse to acknowledge all the ingredients of their products.

But I do agree that consuming vast quantities of the legal drug alcohol that ends up in fighting, possibly domestic abuse, drink driving and a host of other crimes doesn't make it a harmless drug at all. Taking drugs in the comfort of your own house may cause less harm all around.

Totally agree, except with any discussion about this subject must be the acknowledgment that many people will not do them in the comfort of their own homes. Many drugs are social drugs. They're better when done with others, and in different environments like nightclubs, or outdoor raves. However, a better standard of product would vastly reduce problems. Plus some decent education of the population towards drug use, teaching the effects, and better yet, that "less is more" when it comes to many substances.

But with things as they are, people will experiment from the beginning. They go by what they've heard from others or from the internet. And thus many people take too much expecting that this is the best way, or combine the worst mixture of different drugs. And yet, it isn't. I started slow, choosing my drugs with care, and more importantly the people I shared my drugged time with even more care.

On a side note, my drug use is mostly in the past. I get stoned maybe twice a year, and if I'm in the mood, I'll get some nice shrooms once a year. Some of us grow out of such usage simply because we had the chance to everything we wanted to do.

As for 90% poteen? :eek: I'd never heard of this, that's close to lethal if consumed in any quantity

People talk about poteen but I've found that homemade Vodka (or some similar spirit) @ 90% is far more common. Go to a few house parties and you'll find it, along with all the pill poppers.

Laisurg

I agree that cannabis should be made legal however currently it isn't properly legal in any country, in holland it's just not illegal but since cigerettes and alcohol are legal there's no reason that cannabis shouldn't be as it's been proven that it cannot cause death, i can't really comment that much on LSD or ectasy.
I can see cannabis being legalized at some stage but it won't happen here first, it would be much harder to make an argument for LSD and ectasy, while you cannot die from ingesting LSD and ectasy people have died while being under the influence of them from doing something as a result of having taken the drug, even though this is extremely uncommon if anyone ever made an argument for them to be legalized it would be shot down by this.

LSD and ecstacy are also classed as hard drugs, they would need to be put down to class b before anyone would ever consider making them legal.

strobe

nuxxx wrote: »

Friend of a friend had a heart attack at the age of 22 after taking estacy one weekend, lucky to be alive

To say estacy isnt dangerous is like saying chewing on an electrical cable is safe

I used to take it a fair bit back in the day, stopped after getting terrible heart palpatations after doing it one night, not to mention you feel like utter sh1t for a day or two afterwards

Nobody is claiming MDMA is as safe as a glass of water but to claim it is the equivalent of chewing on an electrical cable is nonsense. A old girlfriend of mine almost died one evening when I took her out for dinner and she ate crab for the first time. We don't have laws against shellfish because some people react badly to it.

============================================================================================================

On the general topic I would legalise and regulate all of the most common drugs, cocaine, heroin, mushrooms, cannabis, the MDXX's etc, right across the board. The only argument in favour of prohibition is it restricts and controls supply and demand. It does neither of these things. Demand is as high as it ever was, higher certainly than in decades past and the police don't even scratch the surface of the supply. Independent studies in the UK suggest they take about 1% of the drugs off the street before they are consumed. Here the Gardai claim they get 10% of all drugs, this is nonsense based on wishful thinking, but even if it was true it would mean 90% makes it to the end user. Legalisation would not solve all the problems associated with drugs but it would solve some. It would remove organised crime from the situation, it would make the drugs themselves safer, it would free up an astronomical amount of resources in the court system and for the police so they could focus on real crimes like rape and murder and assault and theft, and it would generate tax which could be used to tackle any problems it doesn't solve.

Honestly I believe the majority of danger when it comes to drugs comes from two areas.

1) Lack of practical education on the subject and the lack of knowledge by the people taking the drugs of their own personal health. e.g. heart conditions/murmurs etc.
2) The standard/quality of the drugs in circulation.

The thing is that the few people I know of that have had nasty reactions to any drugs all had previous conditions which should have prohibited them from taking such. Hell, some of them were on prescription drugs for other problems and they didn't really understand the effects of the prescription drugs in combination with the target substance.

I don't have much approval for the heavier drugs like heroin, but I believe the more common (and easily available) drugs can (and are) taken in a responsible manner by the majority. There will always be Muppet's. Its the same reason we don't make white spirits illegal even though some idiots do drink the stuff.

Alas, I doubt very much that any relaxation of the laws will be made towards any of the drugs currently illegal. We have a nanny state, that must protect us from ourselves.

salutations

E should def be legalised, If it were only proper MDMA there'd be no probs. Of course some people will react to it badly the same way some people react to nuts or shellfish etc etc. There's an excellent docu by none other than ABC Primetime in the US giving a very impartial and informative description of how E became recreational, fascinating docu and the kind of balanced stuff you'd never get from the hysterical RTE or TV3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POKazFc_578&feature=related

Eliot Rosewater

Humanities is for serious discussion folks, not for planning trips to Amsterdam. Off-topic and irrelevant posts deleted.

/mod