What's the best way to do that sample hold tingmy trick

krd

I'm trying to find a good way of doing that sample hold trick. Where you load the sample - loop/hold it and shorten or lengthen it's loop time - like for a build up or just to get a funky sounding groove.

I've been playing around with different ways of doing it. On Ableton - with the simpler, sampler, and the audio clip timing length. Not the most satisfactory results. Close but no banana.

Anyone have a better way to do it?

Or some advice.

And I don't care if it's cheesy.

Anima

Got an example?

ICN

So like it goes from 1/1 to 1/2 to 1/4 to 1/8 to 1/16 to 1/32 etc..

Slow, then speeding up?

krd

Anima wrote: »

Got an example?

Really standard "technique" - first overkilled by Norman Cook.

krd

ICN wrote: »

So like it goes from 1/1 to 1/2 to 1/4 to 1/8 to 1/16 to 1/32 etc..

Slow, then speeding up?

No, not just as simple as that - Want to be able to loop the sample out of time. And even go higher than 32s.

Say on a hardware sampler - like my Roland SP808, zip drive driven thing - which were dumped on Ireland because they couldn't sell them anywhere else - and I haven't been able to "integrate" into my DAW setup - because I lack funds, knowledge and other stuff. Just by twisting the dials backwards and forwards you can get really interesting sounds - these sounds not being worth **** if you can't get them into your production. I want to find out how to do it on a daw.

The 1/1 to 1/2 to 1/4 to 1/8 to 1/16 to 1/32 etc.. is all very well - but what if you want it to drift out of that into something else with a groove

Or

I don't know who did it - but this Salt'n'Peppa remix that I've heard - where the voice goes from ' don't push it,,, don't push it etc' to 'Got pussy, got pussy etc' - just by tweaking the samplers dials

jtsuited

easier to do by just editing the audio in the arrange screen. i know exactly what effect you're talking about. sample and hold is a completely different thing btw.

ICN

Can you assign knobs to the start & end points in Simpler & do it on the fly?

Or just automate them, jumping from positon to position.. gradually getting longer or shorter?

I know what you're talking about.. but think that would be the best way of going about it if I were to do it anway.

ICN

Yeah - when I think of sample & hold.. its Underworld Rez type synths.

Thats always the example used.

krd

jtsuited wrote: »

easier to do by just editing the audio in the arrange screen. i know exactly what effect you're talking about.

Yeah, I know - I can do that. But that's not what I'm looking to do. You can chop up samples and repaste them - but the chops will be on time. You don't get a transition where it sounds like it's speeding up or slowing down - only really blocky. It'll just sound like , dawg, dawg, dawg, dawg, doc, doc, doc, doc, de, de, de, de, dk, dk, dk, dk,

It's bit like setting the LFO on a TAL to a set time or using the rate to spin it up or down.

sample and hold is a completely different thing btw.

Thanks Jeff. For that bit of nerd punctiliousness. Thanks for correcting me even though you knew full well what I was on about in the first place.

Someone pin a nerd of the month blue star on Jeff. - he's earned it this month

jtsuited

the easy way to do it in simpler is set it to loop and then just shorten the length.

krd

ICN wrote: »

Yeah - when I think of sample & hold.. its Underworld Rez type synths.

Thats always the example used.

Yeah, that's right ICN - underworld.

My grandmother is really looking forward to their new album - but it's not coming out til 1994 - she's bummed.

ICN, if you have something to say, of help, that's worth hearing - I'm all ears. But if you just use this places as an arena and opportunity to abuse noobs, like me. Maybe you could do something more constructive with your life. ... Something more constructive than just knocking people down for fun. Maybe you could build something - be constructive and not destructive.


You knew full well what I was on about in the first place.

My grandmother would still like to go see underworld - could you take her - she's in a wheel chair but after a few pills, she might like to have sex. It's like an open goal - not even the keeper to beat - if you're interested.

krd

jtsuited wrote: »

the easy way to do it in simpler is set it to loop and then just shorten the length.

Yeah, I've been playing with that. What's pissed me off about Ableton 7, is not letting me switch off the quatization on the audio clips

I haven't really done the digging around for VST samplers - the simpler the better. The problem with the Ableton native instruments, is not that they didn't make them complicated enough, or that they're too complicated to use, it's maybe they were being too clever. You know, where I'd want it to spin up from 8s to 16s, not jump. Using whatever rate/time dial on some hardware probably wouldn't be as sophisticated enough to lock into the time. It would be harder to do what you'd want to do, but the result would be more organic sounding. (Organic sounding; that's an empty piece of bull**** - but you know what I mean.)

romarr

havent used it in ages but the super luper rack might do what you want

http://tarekith.com/assets/TarekithDJEFXv8.zip

open up the rack to adjust and you can get some good results

(if youre on live7 there is a version 1 of the rack floating around le web somewhere - try a search on the ableton or aldj forums)

ICN

I dont usually.. and seeing that you havent taken your Anti Paranoia Medication - I wont.

Best of luck with figuring it out Mate

krd wrote: »

Yeah, that's right ICN - underworld.

My grandmother is really looking forward to their new album - but it's not coming out til 1994 - she's bummed.

ICN, if you have something to say, of help, that's worth hearing - I'm all ears. But if you just use this places as an arena and opportunity to abuse noobs, like me. Maybe you could do something more constructive with your life. ... Something more constructive than just knocking people down for fun. Maybe you could build something - be constructive and not destructive.


You knew full well what I was on about in the first place.

My grandmother would still like to go see underworld - could you take her - she's in a wheel chair but after a few pills, she might like to have sex. It's like an open goal - not even the keeper to beat - if you're interested.

jtsuited

krd wrote: »

Yeah, I've been playing with that. What's pissed me off about Ableton 7, is not letting me switch off the quatization on the audio clips

I haven't really done the digging around for VST samplers - the simpler the better. The problem with the Ableton native instruments, is not that they didn't make them complicated enough, or that they're too complicated to use, it's maybe they were being too clever. You know, where I'd want it to spin up from 8s to 16s, not jump. Using whatever rate/time dial on some hardware probably wouldn't be as sophisticated enough to lock into the time. It would be harder to do what you'd want to do, but the result would be more organic sounding. (Organic sounding; that's an empty piece of bull**** - but you know what I mean.)

for pretty much every time based parameter in ableton's native stuff there is the option to set it in ms or 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes etc.
IIRC.

krd

ICN wrote: »

I dont usually.. and seeing that you havent taken your Anti Paranoia Medication - I wont.

Best of luck with figuring it out Mate

ICN, I whole heartedly and unreservedly apologise. I was out of order.

I was off my anti-paranoia meds and I'd had four cans of stonehouse which really messed up my mind - I was going to steal a duck from the canal.....to eat...to eat...I'm just curious what they would taste like .


I was only joking. Though in retrospect - To quote the philosopher and chanteuse; Cher. "If I could turn back time". I can't, so.


Anyway, the effect is ubiquitous - I think even Cher has used it.

Norman Cook used it a lot. And This is the embarrassing bit - admitting what I listen to - The Swed H Mafia use it a lot. Sorry - I like D.I.S.C.O music.

There is an interesting use of the speed up sample on the video for SHM's One. Where the sound starts as a kick and is sped up to become a tone that then starts playing the tune.

ICN - you would know a hell of a lot more about this than I would. I kind of started the thread with the intention of hearing a general discussion. There are lots of things you can do with a hardware sampler - different hardware samplers are different from each other. You know - like different Kaoss pads can do different things. There's also weird digital artefacting that can happen - which can be desirable. Sometimes the artefacting can be hugely undesirable.


Again ....I'm sorry for being out of order.

krd

romarr wrote: »

havent used it in ages but the super luper rack might do what you want

http://tarekith.com/assets/TarekithDJEFXv8.zip

open up the rack to adjust and you can get some good results

(if youre on live7 there is a version 1 of the rack floating around le web somewhere - try a search on the ableton or aldj forums)

Thanks. I know Tarekith's stuff. He's a nice guy. I've had a few emails back and forth with him, where he's answered a few questions for me.

I have some of his music - lost somewhere on my computer - he uses a lot of interest sample manipulation. The last I heard from him, his mastering business is working out. He can feed his family and they're not going repossess his house.

On paranoia and forums.

This board is actually really good in comparison to a lot of other forums.

People do - on other forums - throw out red herrings or use it as an opportunity to take the piss out of people.

I've seen, on other forums, noobs come on and ask very basic questions and get toyed with. I've been thrown a few red herrings in the past - I've seen it done to other people. I've spent hours reading through threads on other forums. There's a lot of messing that goes on - I've been giving brutally bad advice in the past and have had the piss taken out of me.

If, like Cher, I could turn back time - I could go back and explain some stuff in minutes to myself that it took months to learn the hard way.

Red herrings are the worst - chewing mouthfuls of salty fish can leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

seannash

krd wrote: »

Thanks. I know Tarekith's stuff. He's a nice guy.

he's a cnut

ICN

@krd - Cool man :pac:

I'm thinking about writing a sitcom based on your 905 Posts - Do you want a Cut?

Waddya say?

jtsuited

tarekith is an absolute cúnt. hasn't got a clue.

krd

jtsuited wrote: »

tarekith is an absolute cúnt. hasn't got a clue.

In what way?

You disagree with his philosophy of mastering? (use as little compression and eq as possible)


I've just come across him through hardware forums - he's owned all the groovebox pieces I have at some point. And when it comes to these pieces of equipment - as far as my experience, he knows what he's on about.

Cnut is a harsh word - even more intense than Pirck

Any contact I've ever had with him - he's been useful and helpful to me -- Special note - special education note - I need lots of help.


A bit more than a year ago - I got an email - group email or maybe mailing list - "aaaargh,,, please help me. They're about to foreclose on my house and I can't feed my family" - there was fcukall I could do for him - but when I was in touch with him a few months back he said his mastering business had really taken off and he was doing fine.

Anyway - he does know his hardware (grooveboxes - not just roland boxes but the other rarer stuff - he's on that obscure forum where they rescue and curate some of this stuff - and have long long threads discussing repainting and redecaling boxes - I doubt they ever make music with these things - I'm hoping for everyone to dump their grooveboxes for plugins - so I can pick them up at ridiculously low prices)

splitrmx

krd wrote: »

I've seen, on other forums, noobs come on and ask very basic questions and get toyed with.

If you come on to a forum and act like a bit of an idiot then you should expect to get the piss taken out of you.

jtsuited

krd wrote: »

In what way?

You disagree with his philosophy of mastering? (use as little compression and eq as possible)


I've just come across him through hardware forums - he's owned all the groovebox pieces I have at some point. And when it comes to these pieces of equipment - as far as my experience, he knows what he's on about.

Cnut is a harsh word - even more intense than Pirck

Any contact I've ever had with him - he's been useful and helpful to me -- Special note - special education note - I need lots of help.


A bit more than a year ago - I got an email - group email or maybe mailing list - "aaaargh,,, please help me. They're about to foreclose on my house and I can't feed my family" - there was fcukall I could do for him - but when I was in touch with him a few months back he said his mastering business had really taken off and he was doing fine.

His music is beyond woeful, and his mastering always sounds flat.

hubiedubie

jtsuited wrote: »

His music is beyond woeful, and his mastering always sounds flat.

Does that make him a cnut?

Android 666

hubiedubie wrote: »

Does that make him a cnut?

No it makes him a pnut…

jtsuited

hubiedubie wrote: »

Does that make him a cnut?

no not by itself but coupled with his attitude and manner it does.

dasdog

I think that thingy can be done through granular synthesis. Maybe not the best way but plugging an arpeggiator into a sampler (Gate CV Ouput [Arp] > Gate Sequencer Control [Sampler]) and manually adjusting the sync rate on the arp does the shortening/lengthening. I used to do this by accident on my s2000 years ago when I was trying to find the start/end points in a loop trying to avoid those horrible clicks but there was no way of editing afterwards where as the arp sync data can be recorded and then adjusted.

krd

dasdog wrote: »

Maybe not the best way but plugging an arpeggiator into a sampler (Gate CV Ouput [Arp] > Gate Sequencer Control [Sampler]) and manually adjusting the sync rate on the arp does the shortening/lengthening.

Yeah, I was thinking it was something along those lines. I'm trying experiment with different ways of doing in ableton.

I'm making a bit of progress. Some things Ableton won't let me automate other things it will.

I used to do this by accident on my s2000 years ago when I was trying to find the start/end points in a loop trying to avoid those horrible clicks but there was no way of editing afterwards where as the arp sync data can be recorded and then adjusted.

A lot of these techniques are using the equipment in ways that no one would have thought of. For the moment using any hardware I have is a pain in the arse. I'm short bits and bobs. At some point I'll rig everything up properly. Something like Ableton is less mess as there are no cables involve.

krd

jtsuited wrote: »

no not by itself but coupled with his attitude and manner it does.

I don't know. I've never read where he's said anything funny.

I have seen plenty of other people deliberately be assholes.

There are lots of people who give out really bad advice. Sometimes it's accidental and sometimes it's deliberate.

There are worse people out there. Like a certain American producer who makes his living from teaching. He tells his classes he's had major hits in Europe and Japan - I've never been able to find any of these - and his work doesn't sound that up to scratch. And some of his advice is worse than awful.

SteveDon

krd wrote: »

There are worse people out there. Like a certain American producer who makes his living from teaching. He tells his classes he's had major hits in Europe and Japan - I've never been able to find any of these - and his work doesn't sound that up to scratch. And some of his advice is worse than awful.

Name and shame

krd

SteveDon wrote: »

Name and shame

I won't name that one. Let's just say he exaggerates the success of his releases.

There are actually a few people out there like that. Some have a real neck - claiming to have worked on records by well known people - but when you check they're never credited. There are few people around Dublin like that.

For sheer comedy value, who takes the biscuit is Dec Cluskey. Member of the popular Irish beat combo The Bachelors.

http://www.makehits.co.uk/demo.htm


Dec made his pile years ago and now gets his kicks from helping others to do the same. Sure, he makes good money from music - but that’s not the main reason he does it! He just loves helping people make a fortune! "It’s easy", says DEC, "it’s only hard work!"

Dec will show you how to make millions from music - just as he's done.

He'll give your demo a professional listen.... for a fee.

He's got all kinds of music services and publications. For £57 you can buy his 57 secrets of hit making.

Dec also sells herbal viagra.

ICN

That website is fkn hilarious :pac:

Elevator

klf the manual

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ithompson/klf-book-themanual.pdf

hubiedubie

Elevator wrote: »

klf the manual

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ithompson/klf-book-themanual.pdf

Great link (if only for humour value). Their music career makes for interesting reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_KLF