voting for Sinn Fein

viztopia · 13-12-2010 2:59pm #1

there is a thread in the "louth Forum" about who will you vote for in the up coming election. I think this is especially relevant with Gerry Adams handing in his resignation to his queen and coming to represent the good people of Louth. This got me to thinking why would some one vote for a group that represents thieves and murderers? It is not that long ago that an unarmed member of the Irish Free State Gardai (as well as been a married father) was executed in Tallanstown, Co. Louth while - wait for it - chasing 4 armed robbers after, again wait for it - the gang had robbed the dole office in ardee, co. louth. I mean come on, first of all they rob the money intended for unemployed people (who Sinn Fein claim to represent) and then they murder an unarmed garda? Also i dont think there is any point in bringing up Gerry Mc Cabe.........

Ardennes1944 · 13-12-2010 3:03pm

not another one:rolleyes:

DrumSteve · 13-12-2010 3:04pm

viztopia wrote: »

there is a thread in the "louth Forum" about who will you vote for in the up coming election. I think this is especially relevant with Gerry Adams handing in his resignation to his queen and coming to represent the good people of Louth. This got me to thinking why would some one vote for a group that represents thieves and murderers? It is not that long ago that an unarmed member of the Irish Free State Gardai (as well as been a married father) was executed in Tallanstown, Co. Louth while - wait for it - chasing 4 armed robbers after, again wait for it - the gang had robbed the dole office in ardee, co. louth. I mean come on, first of all they rob the money intended for unemployed people (who Sinn Fein claim to represent) and then they murder an unarmed garda? Also i dont think there is any point in bringing up Gerry Mc Cabe.........

Ahem.

And also... are you arguing for or against? Your post makes no sense.

charlemont · 13-12-2010 3:05pm

well id rather Sinn Fein anyday than the peados, perverts and traitors Fianna Fail unleashed on this country.

LordSutch · 13-12-2010 3:10pm

At the last count there was ten Sinn Fein threads running simultaeniously in the Politics forum (this month alone), now there are eleven Sinn Fein threads running, all with very similar messages & ideas, all posing the same questions, this SF thread being a copy of the Louth one.

Call me skeptical but . . . :cool:

charlemont · 13-12-2010 3:13pm

LordSutch wrote: »

At the last count there was ten Sinn Fein threads running simultaeniously in the Politics forum (this month alone), now there are eleven SF threads, all with similar messages & questions, all posing the same questions, this onebeing a copy of the Louth one.

Call me skeptical but . . . :cool:

Wait till the election is called the FF scum will be doing all they can to tarnish SF..

viztopia · 13-12-2010 3:19pm

this is not a posting for SF. I just thought that with all the crap on the media about SF doing well in an elction, i wondered what kind of dopes would vote for them.

LordSutch · 13-12-2010 3:24pm

Reverse psychology maybe? still another SF thread.

petroltimer · 13-12-2010 3:24pm

well i won't vote for them mate,

i'd rather give brian cowen a pay rise and 20 years more at being the boss than give my worthless vote to those murdering scum

David

Ardennes1944 · 13-12-2010 3:24pm

If im to be considered a dope for voting SF in the coming election by the op ( dope ). then i guess im just plain silly

13-12-2010 3:27pm

charlemont wrote: »

Wait till the election is called the FF scum will be doing all they can to tarnish SF..

They wont have to do much....

Tech3 · 13-12-2010 3:52pm

As many of you know Sinn Féin will never condone the work of dissident republicans and terrorists that are against the peace process.

Notorious97 · 13-12-2010 4:51pm

Another pointless thread to bash SF? I think people are afraid of a turn of politics and dreading an upcoming election.....

LordSutch · 13-12-2010 4:52pm

tech2 wrote: »

As many of you know Sinn Féin will never condone the work of dissident republicans and terrorists that are against the peace process.

Then again, Sinn Fein would never condem the unsavoury work of 'their own' terrorist colleagues pre the peace process . . .

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 4:55pm

tech2 wrote: »

As many of you know Sinn Féin will never condone the work of dissident republicans and terrorists that are against the peace process.

But they do condone plenty of atrocities in the past.

Amazotheamazing · 13-12-2010 4:58pm

tech2 wrote: »

As many of you know Sinn Féin will never condone the work of dissident republicans and terrorists that are against the peace process.

Is there a major difference between the murders in Enniskillen and the murders in Omagh?

You can't condemn one and not condemn the other, imo.

newmug · 13-12-2010 5:16pm

I dont know. I just dont.

I'm all for a united Ireland. SF are the only ones with that realistically on their agenda at the moment. I'd even settle for 100 more years of IMF just to get my country back.

I'm also all for the language, something our most probable next leaders, FG, are clearly not too pushed about.

As for FF, I would have always been a FF voter. They did make a positive difference around my area for the last 30 years or so, and they were basically the Southerners Republican party. Not this time though, their sins are unforgivable.

As for the troubles, I, like many others, was secretly rooting for the PIRA all along. I say secretly because, as can be seen even on boards, its not a popular thing to do. I was thoroughly against the british army being in my country, I used to suffer chronically from anxiety attacks during the troubles, purely from the frustration of seeing fellow countrymen being murdered for being Catholic, orangemen gloating on the 12th, the uvf getting away scott free right under (and indeed inside!) the authorities noses, while suspected PIRA were jailed for life etc. It was a terrible time, but such is war. The jubilation there would be in my local when the PIRA would hit up a brit patrol, or when a scumbag uvf would be blown up, the feeling of revenge, of justice being done! And then the sickening feeling afterwards when the buzz wore off, that more human beings had died in a pure madness dispute over land and colonialism. Glad some semblance of normal life has returned. I say all this in complete honesty. I know I'll get flak for it, but thats the way it was.

And so for SF, or to be more precise, modern SF. Post GFA SF. I. Just. Dont. Know. It seems to me they're singing the right tune, but they've a dagger hidden in the bagpipes. A lot, not all, a lot though, of young SF supporters in my locality are just thugs. Outright, drug-pushing, joyriding, racketeering thugs. It all seems very BNP-like to me. Is that what I want to vote in?

If I could be guaranteed that I could trust SF, I'd vote for them. Then again, if FG just became a bit more patriotic, they'd do.

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 5:21pm

newmug wrote: »

I'm also all for the language, something our most probable next leaders, FG, are clearly not too pushed about.

I don't know where this canard came from. Can anyone explain how FG aren't interested in the Irish language? Just because Fianna Failures keep saying it, doesn't make it true. Where is the clear evidence?

Also on the UI question, I imagine FG and the average FG member* is as keen on the idea as anyone else, but until the folks in the North feel the same way, there's no point in banging on about it, is there?

*This is a guess to be honest, but I think it's accurate.

Amazotheamazing · 13-12-2010 5:45pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't know where this canard came from. Can anyone explain how FG aren't interested in the Irish language? Just because Fianna Failures keep saying it, doesn't make it true. Where is the clear evidence?.

Afaik, Leo Varadkar is one of the few TD's to actually make an effort to learn Irish. When he was elected to the Dail he felt it was his duty to learn Irish and he's recently become proficient enough to be able to have interviews in Irish.

No idea how many other politicians make the effort, maybe they all do, but I was glad to see it being done anyway.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 13-12-2010 5:47pm

newmug wrote: »

I dont know. I just dont.

I'm all for a united Ireland. SF are the only ones with that realistically on their agenda at the moment. I'd even settle for 100 more years of IMF just to get my country back.

I'm also all for the language, something our most probable next leaders, FG, are clearly not too pushed about.

As for FF, I would have always been a FF voter. They did make a positive difference around my area for the last 30 years or so, and they were basically the Southerners Republican party. Not this time though, their sins are unforgivable.

As for the troubles, I, like many others, was secretly rooting for the PIRA all along. I say secretly because, as can be seen even on boards, its not a popular thing to do. I was thoroughly against the british army being in my country, I used to suffer chronically from anxiety attacks during the troubles, purely from the frustration of seeing fellow countrymen being murdered for being Catholic, orangemen gloating on the 12th, the uvf getting away scott free right under (and indeed inside!) the authorities noses, while suspected PIRA were jailed for life etc. It was a terrible time, but such is war. The jubilation there would be in my local when the PIRA would hit up a brit patrol, or when a scumbag uvf would be blown up, the feeling of revenge, of justice being done! And then the sickening feeling afterwards when the buzz wore off, that more human beings had died in a pure madness dispute over land and colonialism. Glad some semblance of normal life has returned. I say all this in complete honesty. I know I'll get flak for it, but thats the way it was.

And so for SF, or to be more precise, modern SF. Post GFA SF. I. Just. Dont. Know. It seems to me they're singing the right tune, but they've a dagger hidden in the bagpipes. A lot, not all, a lot though, of young SF lads in my locality are just thugs. Outright, drug-pushing, joyriding, racketeering thugs. It all seems very BNP-like to me. Is that what I want to vote in?

If I could be guaranteed that I could trust SF, I'd vote for them. Then again, if FG just became a bit more patriotic, they'd do.

not gonna moralise cause you obviously have more experience than I.

That said - voting for Sinn Fein will not bring a united Ireland any closer. It is all up to the voters of northern ireland in a border poll. There is also the idea that Sinn Fein in power in the republic might make people in the north opposed to reunification even more hardline.

newmug · 13-12-2010 6:01pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't know where this canard came from. Can anyone explain how FG aren't interested in the Irish language? Just because Fianna Failures keep saying it, doesn't make it true. Where is the clear evidence?

Did they not moot the idea of making it a choice in schools, as opposed to the current mandatory system?

If I had my way, I'd implement Dev's original idea of making ALL schools Gaelscoileanna. I'd systematically replace english with Gaelic. english could be our second language, just as it is in Norway, Luxemburg, France etc., who are all doing fine without it. Maybe we'd even be taken a bit more seriously internationally as a nation aswell!

Apart from that, the anti-patriotic view a lot of people have about FG comes from long standing civil-war politics. Basically, FG were the posh FF. If you were an ex-IRA peasant farmer, FF was your friend. If you were a protestant landlord from an english family, or a businessman, FG was your party. On the whole, they're basically clones of each other anyway, just with a class divide.
Granted maybe not so much nowadays, but dont cod yourself that they'd be less corrupt or inept than FF.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Also on the UI question, I imagine FG and the average FG member* is as keen on the idea as anyone else, but until the folks in the North feel the same way, there's no point in banging on about it, is there?

*This is a guess to be honest, but I think it's accurate.

You dont think a significant amount of folks in the North want a UI?

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 6:10pm

newmug wrote: »

Did they not moot the idea of making it a choice in schools, as opposed to the current mandatory system?

That might be a very good idea - you'd end up with the enthusiastic people studying the language, instead of making it a punishment for all. The current system hasn't worked, has it?

newmug wrote: »

If I had my way, I'd implement Dev's original idea of making ALL schools Gaelscoileanna. I'd systematically replace english with Gaelic. english could be our second language, just as it is in Norway, Luxemburg, France etc., who are all doing fine without it. Maybe we'd even be taken a bit more seriously internationally as a nation aswell!

I think that also might be a very good idea.

newmug wrote: »

Apart from that, the anti-patriotic view a lot of people have about FG comes from long standing civil-war politics. Basically, FG were the posh FF. If you were an ex-IRA peasant farmer, FF was your friend. If you were a protestant landlord from an english family, or a businessman, FG was your party. On the whole, they're basically clones of each other anyway, just with a class divide.
Granted maybe not so much nowadays, but dont cod yourself that they'd be less corrupt or inept than FF.

That paragraph says nothing about how FG could be perceived as non-patriotic.

I also disagree re. the corruption and incompetence - when a FG TD is found to be corrupt he is kicked out of the party (Lowry) or if it even looks like they did something dodgy they resign (Coveney). In Fianna Failure, you had corrupt guys like Haughey and Ahern in charge for nearly 30 years, and you have corrupt people like Frank Fahy ('Lost at Sea') and Cooper-Flynn (tax dodges) still in the party.

newmug wrote: »

You dont think a significant amount of folks in the North want a UI?

I'm sure they do (does anyone have good objective numbers?)- but do a majority? Not yet.

newmug · 13-12-2010 6:34pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That might be a very good idea - you'd end up with the enthusiastic people studying the language, instead of making it a punishment for all. The current system hasn't worked, has it?

It has its good points and bad points. So has the current system. But just to answer your question about where the impression that FG are anti-Gaelic language originated, thats where.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think that also might be a very good idea.

Well if FG officially announced that as their policy, I'd join them right now!

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That paragraph says nothing about how FG could be perceived as non-patriotic.
I also disagree re. the corruption and incompetence - when a FG TD is found to be corrupt he is kicked out of the party (Lowry) or if it even looks like they did something dodgy they resign (Coveney). In Fianna Failure, you had corrupt guys like Haughey and Ahern in charge for nearly 30 years, and you have corrupt people like Frank Fahy ('Lost at Sea') and Cooper-Flynn (tax dodges) still in the party.

They were perceived as the big posh, landed gentry, upper class, mainly protestant, english sympathising party. Those things were inherently anti-Irish in civil war times. Nowadays Ireland is a different place, but the stigma still remains. The Gaelic language issue, mis-conceived (or not) as it may be, is not helping.

While I agree that FF are now rotten with corruption, FG have their fair share of me-feiners too. You cant deny, it more-or-less is made up of the type of farmers who are more familiar with a Merc than a Massey. No corruption of grants / EU subsides there or anything ?

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I'm sure they do (does anyone have good objective numbers?)- but do a majority? Not yet.

Ah but seeing as the North IS ours, democratically speaking, shouldnt the entire country have a vote? We'd easily have a majority then. Things are structured the way they are because of goalpost moving in the past.

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 6:47pm

newmug wrote: »

They were perceived as the big posh, landed gentry, upper class, mainly protestant, english sympathising party. Those things were inherently anti-Irish in civil war times.

I think we need a historian to weigh in on this, but I'm not sure that's accurate!

newmug · 13-12-2010 6:53pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I think we need a historian to weigh in on this, but I'm not sure that's accurate!

Just on a side-note Monty, its such a breath of fresh air to have a rational, friendly debate! Everybody has different points of view, but usually people descend into bickering and hair-splitting, esp. in threads like this! I appreciate your graciousness!

PomBear · 13-12-2010 6:53pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Is there a major difference between the murders in Enniskillen and the murders in Omagh?

You can't condemn one and not condemn the other, imo.

SF have condemned both of them

Monty Burnz · 13-12-2010 7:01pm

PomBear wrote: »

SF have condemned both of them

How about the Warrington bombing? Or a hundred other fatal attacks? And condemning is very easy - what have they done to bring the perps to justice?

Amazotheamazing · 13-12-2010 7:11pm

PomBear wrote: »

SF have condemned both of them

Maybe so, but it's been reported that McGuinness was in charge of the IRA Army council when Enniskillen happened. Don't think he ever did any prison time for any part in the murders.

PomBear · 13-12-2010 7:42pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Maybe so, but it's been reported that McGuinness was in charge of the IRA Army council when Enniskillen happened. Don't think he ever did any prison time for any part in the murders.

If there were enough evidence to prove your allegation, he would have been tried and convicted.

deise go deo · 13-12-2010 7:55pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't know where this canard came from. Can anyone explain how FG aren't interested in the Irish language? Just because Fianna Failures keep saying it, doesn't make it true. Where is the clear evidence?

Well they did want to make it optional for the LC, A Backward step if you want the language promoted, But they have since withdrawn their Education Policy and are drawing up a new one, The position of Irish in it is not yet known.

whippet · 13-12-2010 7:58pm

PomBear wrote: »

If there were enough evidence to prove your allegation, he would have been tried and convicted.

they are quite good at hiding people.

To hear that hypocrite Adams on the radio today talking about MI5 keeping secret documents about the Pat Finucane murder, while Sinn Fein / IRA have been protecting murderers for years and intimidating anyone willing to give evidence.

If that scumbag gets in to our national Parliament it will be a sad sorry day for our nation.

Remember, a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for Murderers and Gangsters

PomBear · 13-12-2010 8:48pm

whippet wrote: »

they are quite good at hiding people.

To hear that hypocrite Adams on the radio today talking about MI5 keeping secret documents about the Pat Finucane murder, while Sinn Fein / IRA have been protecting murderers for years and intimidating anyone willing to give evidence.

If that scumbag gets in to our national Parliament it will be a sad sorry day for our nation.

Remember, a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for Murderers and Gangsters

So you're saying one of the most concrete homeland securities and judicial systems can't prove they did this, but you can. Good reasoning.

Euro_Kraut · 13-12-2010 9:01pm

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Afaik, Leo Varadkar is one of the few TD's to actually make an effort to learn Irish. When he was elected to the Dail he felt it was his duty to learn Irish and he's recently become proficient enough to be able to have interviews in Irish.

No idea how many other politicians make the effort, maybe they all do, but I was glad to see it being done anyway.

Do you have any source for this? I'm after reading a couple of long interviews with him and there is no mention of it.

Amazotheamazing · 14-12-2010 2:35am

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Do you have any source for this? I'm after reading a couple of long interviews with him and there is no mention of it.

Himself and Matt Cooper discussed it in an interview, iirc.

Firefox11 · 14-12-2010 3:43am

charlemont wrote: »

well id rather Sinn Fein anyday than the peados, perverts and traitors Fianna Fail unleashed on this country.

Yes. Punishment beatings and criminality is far better all round for this country.:rolleyes:

maccored · 14-12-2010 9:46am

and sf run around the south of ireland being criminals and beating people up? ffs .....

oncevotedff · 14-12-2010 12:30pm

viztopia wrote: »

there is a thread in the "louth Forum" about who will you vote for in the up coming election..........

So why didn't you leave it in the Louth forum. Or did you think that yet another Sinn Fein thread is just the thing to liven up our lives?

viztopia wrote: »

It is not that long ago that an unarmed member of the Irish Free State Gardai .....

No such place exists.

Ardennes1944 · 14-12-2010 12:40pm

Seeing all these negative comments about Sinn Fein just makes me want to vote for them even more just to piss off all of you Sinn Fein haters

maccored · 14-12-2010 1:36pm

its the usual bull**** and scaremongering. Im sure SF wouldnt want those stupid enough to believe in it to be voting for them anyway.

voting for Sinn Fein

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