UTV/CH4 digital - no?

TouchingVirus

There's a lot of stuff regarding Saorview in here, but I've searched and not found anything related to UTV/C4 digitally.

We're approximately 5 miles from Cairn Hill with direct line of sight (if that even matters) so there's fairly decent signal. Just got around to installing digital channels last night and found digital replacements for everything except UTV and Channel 4. We even got the likes of E4+1 (but strangely enough no E4), BBC Four, BBC Parliament, BBC News, Sky3 and 3e that we didn't get on analog.

Did we not get UTV and C4 because they're not broadcasting digitally or is there some other reason?

fat-tony

Cairn Hill is an RTENL transmitter - no UK Freeview channels broadcast from there - RTE 1/2 TV3 TG4 3E and RTE News + test channel and 10 radio stations. Someone with localised knowledge will tell you which Freeview transmitter to point your aerial at. Definitely ITV and C4 available.

Tom Slick

UK digital terrestrial is branded Freeview. It doesn't come from Cairn Hill.

You are missing some of the UK services because your aerial is not receiving all of the multiplexes.

For example, E4 & E4+1 are carried on different multiplexes (mux. for short; actually a UHF channel).

TouchingVirus

My TV has the ability to scan frequencies as a DTT reception test option, and that would explain why when I input CH 47 (Cairn Hill) last night I was able to pick up 17 channels (Saorview). I did a complete reinstall of channels soon after so I assume it scanned all digital channels and installed what it could. That sort of makes sense to me, can you tell I'm new to all this?

If Cairn Hill is an RTE NL broadcaster then is it safe to assume that all those extra channels I'm getting (e.g. BBC 4, Sky3) aren't coming from there but rather somewhere else?

If my antenna isn't pointing the right way then surely directing it to a different antenna broadcasting ITV/CH4 will affect the signal I'm getting from Cairn Hill?

Tom Slick

If you only have one aerial & you're only 5 miles from Cairn Hill (the most powerful transmitter in the country) maybe the aerial is pointing at the NI transmitter.
Depending on your exact location, this may be the same direction anyway.

Mayo Exile

TouchingVirus wrote: »

My TV has the ability to scan frequencies as a DTT reception test option, and that would explain why when I input CH 47 (Cairn Hill) last night I was able to pick up 17 channels (Saorview). I did a complete reinstall of channels soon after so I assume it scanned all digital channels and installed what it could. That sort of makes sense to me, can you tell I'm new to all this?

If Cairn Hill is an RTE NL broadcaster then is it safe to assume that all those extra channels I'm getting (e.g. BBC 4, Sky3) aren't coming from there but rather somewhere else?

If my antenna isn't pointing the right way then surely directing it to a different antenna broadcasting ITV/CH4 will affect the signal I'm getting from Cairn Hill?

What direction is your aerial pointing at? Northwest, North, Northeast etc? You could be picking up UK DTT (Freeview) from the Brougher Mountain transmitter on the Fermanagh/Tyrone border or from Divis near Belfast. Whats the UHF channel number you are getting E4+1 etc on?

TouchingVirus

I'll find out tonight, I can't remember which way it's pointing. There's 3 antennae on the mast - The big one at the top, a smaller one underneath and then a 3G signal mast for the internet. Which one of the first two do you need the direction of?

According to a map of coverage it appears Brougher Mountain isn't covering me. We're in the slice of missing signal there between Longford and Edgeworthstown. It's a bit strange to me because I've even got BBC Digital Radio

fat-tony

I'll be the smaller one underneath (UHF). As you're only 5 miles from Cairn Hill, you'll probably get away with the proverbial coat-hanger as an aerial for it. Optimise your aerial for the Freeview transmissions and see if you pick up the missing multiplex containing ITV/CH4 etc. Then you can check if it affects your Saorview reception. You may well get away with just one UHF aerial for both sets of services.

Mayo Exile

The large one. I'm guessing this is the aerial you were getting BBC1/2, UTV and Ch4 with up to now. You're getting these, yes? The second smaller aerial is probably for RTE and is pointing at Cairn Hill for Saorview DTT reception.

For the large aerial is there a masthead amp attached? (Small box, a couple of feet down from it).

Large aerial like this?

Small aerial like this?

TouchingVirus

So I should adjust, if necessary, the smaller antenna that's under the big one at the top - pointing it at Brougher Mountain (north). The bigger antenna shouldn't be moved?

Bad enough weather to be hopping up on the roof doing all this, might leave it until Spring but we'll see

Macy0161

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I'll find out tonight, I can't remember which way it's pointing. There's 3 antennae on the mast - The big one at the top, a smaller one underneath and then a 3G signal mast for the internet. Which one of the first two do you need the direction of?

According to a map of coverage it appears Brougher Mountain isn't covering me. We're in the slice of missing signal there between Longford and Edgeworthstown. It's a bit strange to me because I've even got BBC Digital Radio

Places in that missing zone definitely get analogue Brougher Mountain, so I wouldn't rule it out.

Analogue Brougher Mountain would most likely have been via a masthead amp, so if there isn't a power supply for that that the moment, you could try sourcing one of those first in case an amp is fitted and just not powered as things stand.

fat-tony

Apologies - to me both of those are "small" (UHF) antennas. I thought when you said "big", that you had a VHF aerial on top (much longer rods). If your aerials are like the pictures that Mayo Exile posted, then you may have the contract aerial (fewer rods) pointed at Cairn Hill so don't go near that. If the top aerial is like that in the photo and it has an amplifier on it (small box on the mast and a power supply near the TV), then that is your Freeview and existing analogue aerial. You may just not be receiving sufficient signal strength on some of the Freeview multiplexes. Tweaking the aerial may not be sufficient, you may need a better aerial or you may need to wait until 2012 when the power levels are increased at the NI transmitters.

Mayo Exile

TouchingVirus wrote: »

So I should adjust, if necessary, the smaller antenna that's under the big one at the top - pointing it at Brougher Mountain (north). The bigger antenna shouldn't be moved?

Bad enough weather to be hopping up on the roof doing all this, might leave it until Spring but we'll see

Check direction first before moving anything. Going up on a roof is a dangerous business at any time, but especially at the moment. If you then need to adjust the aerial, it would be the big one. Check your neighbours aerials too. What direction are they pointing at?

The smaller antenna would be getting DTT from Cairn Hill. How is your current BBC/UTV/CH4 reception?

TouchingVirus

The antennas are like Mayo Exile posted. No idea about the little box though (amp?) - I'll take a look and see

There'll be no going up on the roof unless absolutely necessary and certainly not during the winter months.

My BBC analog reception was perfect, and the BBC digital reception is equally perfect. The UTV reception is 'decent' and Channel 4 is and always was the worst channel in our house. The signal isn't so bad as to see ghosting but it is noisy enough to notice the quality difference between it and every other channel. I should say though that CH4 is perfectly watchable

Mayo Exile

TouchingVirus wrote: »

The antennas are like Mayo Exile posted. No idea about the little box though (amp?) - I'll take a look and see

There'll be no going up on the roof unless absolutely necessary and certainly not during the winter months.

My BBC analog reception was perfect, and the BBC digital reception is equally perfect. The UTV reception is 'decent' and Channel 4 is and always was the worst channel in our house. The signal isn't so bad as to see ghosting but it is noisy enough to notice the quality difference between it and every other channel. I should say though that CH4 is perfectly watchable

To check what mast your BBC analogue reception is coming from, if the UHF channel numbers are 22, 28, 25 and 32 (BBC1/2/UTV/Ch4) its Brougher Mountain.

For Divis near Belfast they are 31, 27, 24 and 21.

TouchingVirus

Another thing to check when I get home.

Thanks very much for all the assistance and major hand-holding folks, it really is appreciated

fat-tony

Assuming you're getting your signals from Brougher Mountain (main aerial is pointing approximately North), then the digital signals are at a low power level in comparison to analogue and will be until digital switch-over (DSO). It's probably just a trick of the terrain that you are getting one multiplex well and not another. Here's a link to a page describing the channel allocations and power levels at present and up to DSO. I can't confirm the accuracy of the info, but it will give you some comparative values. http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=IH350527

TouchingVirus

I think it may be a trick of the terrain so, because three Mux channels (2, A and D), two of which are marked as Low on that page are the ones I cannot get.

The TV did scan and managed to tune in CNN International and FIVER which are on Mux A but as far as I can recall I've not actually got any signal to them and couldn't get a display or audio on them.

Going on that page as a guide I managed to get Mux 1, B, C

lawhec

From TouchingVirus' location it's likely to be a Brougher Mountain/Carin Hill receiving combination.

Brougher Mountain's current Freeview service is on low power. Also not all the multiplexes are the same, Muxs 2 & A use the 64QAM transmission mode while the other four are 16QAM. The former has more transmission capacity (i.e. can carry more channels) while the latter can be received better in weaker/nosier conditions.

Since UTV & CH4 are on a 64QAM multiplex, their coverage (excluding factors like co-channel interference) will be slightly less than that for the BBC Channels, most notably in fringe areas. This explains why some services are received and not others.

The coverage map on ukfree.tv should not be used as a coverage indicator for Brougher or any N.I. transmitter or relay, as the coverage prediction script used isn't calibrated to the Irish Grid Reference, on Great Britain's.

TouchingVirus

So essentially I'm a bit stuck now because they're on 64QAM and only being broadcast on low power?

Souriau

TouchingVirus wrote: »

There's a lot of stuff regarding Saorview in here, but I've searched and not found anything related to UTV/C4 digitally.

We're approximately 5 miles from Cairn Hill with direct line of sight (if that even matters) so there's fairly decent signal. Just got around to installing digital channels last night and found digital replacements for everything except UTV and Channel 4. We even got the likes of E4+1 (but strangely enough no E4), BBC Four, BBC Parliament, BBC News, Sky3 and 3e that we didn't get on analog.

Did we not get UTV and C4 because they're not broadcasting digitally or is there some other reason?

Give a full list of what you got
and if you can, select any of the NI channels and then press your menu buttion and look for Signal Detection
This will give you the Mux name, the UHF frequency and signal strengh

BMD

Any further update on this???

I have two aerials (UFH)...one for RTE and one for UK tv. I get perfect analogue reception for bbc 1, bbc 2, utv and channel 4 but only get bbc1, bbc2, film4, itv4 etc. on digital (i.e., no UTV or C4).

I get perfect saorview reception.

I am based in Monaghan and my UK aerial is pointing roughly in the belfast direction

Digifriendly

BMD wrote: »

Any further update on this???

I have two aerials (UFH)...one for RTE and one for UK tv. I get perfect analogue reception for bbc 1, bbc 2, utv and channel 4 but only get bbc1, bbc2, film4, itv4 etc. on digital (i.e., no UTV or C4).

I get perfect saorview reception.

I am based in Monaghan and my UK aerial is pointing roughly in the belfast direction

Looks like you're picking up 2 BBC multiplexes (ch. 26/29 - multiplexes 1 and B which are usually the most robust) also Multiplex D (Ch34 ie. ITV4/ Film 4 etc) but not Multiplex 2 (Ch.33 i.e. UTV/Ch4). Are you getting ITV3 (ch. 23 - Multiplex A) and are you getting Sky News (Multiplex C on channel 48)?
BTW after DSO in October next year power will be ramped up considerably so you should have little problem picking up all multiplexes which will all then be within Group A band aerials. At present Multiplex C is out of that band.

Peter Rhea

BMD wrote: »

I am based in Monaghan and my UK aerial is pointing roughly in the belfast direction

Isn't your aerial in the attic?

If you want a chance of all Freeview now, move it outside or, as mentioned by Digifriendly, there will be a substantial power increase in less than a year from now which should solve your problem, given that you're already receiving some of the Freeview muxes.

Also, what kind of distribution amp did you eventually settle on?

Pyro Boy

I have a same problem as BMD, I'm in Monaghan with a new triax Group A aerial in the attic picking up the Divis transmitter.

Here are the channels I can pick up (missing UTV and channel 4, 5) with the single strength :

Channel 29 https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/

Channel 34 https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/

My question is that my setup (see my thread for pics & more info http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68804355 the only change to the set up was a new aerial) uses old cables ("Low Loss" CoAx I think) and if I replaced these would it make a big difference (i.e. get more channels) or just improve the single I already have?

And would changing any of the boxes (see old thread) do anything ?

Thanks

Digifriendly

Pyro Boy wrote: »

I have a same problem as BMD, I'm in Monaghan with a new triax Group A aerial in the attic picking up the Divis transmitter.

Here are the channels I can pick up (missing UTV and channel 4, 5) with the single strength :

Channel 29 https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/

Channel 34 https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/

My question is that my setup (see my thread for pics & more info http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=68804355 the only change to the set up was a new aerial) uses old cables ("Low Loss" CoAx I think) and if I replaced these would it make a big difference (i.e. get more channels) or just improve the single I already have?

And would changing any of the boxes (see old thread) do anything ?

Thanks

As advised on one of the previous threads I would go if at all possible for aerial outside the attic and IMHO you would get marked improvement in your Freeview reception. Strange you're picking up one BBC multiplex and not the other one.

STB

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/when_do_i_switch/northernireland

@ Pyro The Mux you are missing is Ch33 which is due to it being on low power. 23 must also be a problem as that is on similar power at present.

I doubt you are getting Channel 48 as it is outside a Group A aerial's group range.

Does Brougher get into Monaghan ?

OldRio

Hi'
We are missing the mux on Ch 33.
No reception of UTV or Ch4 on freeview.
Our location is Leitrim.
As others have said. Wait for the increase in power next year.

Pyro Boy

Thanks for the info just a long time to wait :rolleyes: