Two Section 6s and a Section 4

nodolan

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some input. I was verbally attacked, threatened with physical violence and was the victim of a homophobic attack (all by the same guy on the same occasion) in a fast food restaurant last February.

I retaliated by running after him and slapping him on the side of the head, he was a huge guy who subsequently swatted me to the ground three times.

The Gardaí arrived. One female Garda took my statement (calmly). A male Garda came out of the joint all enraged shouting at me that he had seen the video and that I had caused all the trouble (this was contradicted by three UK women who gave statements that said that the other guy had carried out a sustained verbal assault on me and had followed me out of the restaurant threatening physical violence).

I told the male Garda to watch the rest of the video at which he screamed at me about not telling him how to do his job. The female Garda was obviously confused and taken aback at the male Garda's attitude and demeanor towards me.

The male Garda then shouted at the female Garda to arrest me, she hesitated, he shouted "give me your handcuffs", he threw me against the Garda van, twisting my arm so severely it caused me to cry out in pain.

I was taken to a Garda station where my belongings, belt etc. were taken from me. I was shown some sheets of paper that were apparently my rights and I noticed item two or three mentioned a phone call. My non-national partner was in Ireland for his first time and I didn't know if he had the key to my apartment - I told the Gardaí this and requested a phone call, they laughed at me and threw me into a cell. I spent the next three hours banging on the cell door demanding my phone call and finally only gave up when I collapsed on the cell floor.

I remember that a Garda came in and told me to get up but I couldn't. He shouted abuse at me about leaving me there. A couple of Gardaí came back some time later and told me to get up. I dragged myself up and was led to the front desk. The sergeant was mocking me and there were Gardaí coming in off the street and I appealed to them to not let this 'injustice' take place.

The sergeant took all my belongings (that were in a plastic box) including my iPhone, wallet, keys etc. and walked out the front door and threw them onto the street. He then came back in and physically picked me up and threw me out the door screaming "F**k off, get the f**k out of here" (this was at approx. 3.30am). I was so shocked at what had just happened that I dialed 999 and asked for the Gardaí in another part of the country, they told me to call Garda HQ which I did and a female Garda there told me to go to a different station in my area and make a formal complaint.

I made a complaint to the Garda Ombudsman but had to drop it due to lack of CCTV in the Garda station. Immediately afterward I was offered an adult caution (for two Section 6s (threatening and abusive behaviour) and one Section 4 (intoxication)) which I declined and told the Superintendent that I actually had witnesses to prove that I had taken less than three glasses of wine over a three hour period and that I had a medical condition on the night in question that caused me physiological and psychological distress (I was pissing blood the next morning and was diagnosed as being in danger of imminent kidney failure for which I was hospitalized and treated) so it was impossible for me to be 'intoxicated' plus I wasn't behaving according to my normal character because of it.

The Gardaí (and DPP) have rejected (so it seems) all my medical evidence and the witness statements as to being the original victim in this matter and I am due to appear in court later in December. I had a solicitor who told me he would see the two Section 6s put away, that I should plead guilty to the Section 4 and that I would get legal aid (I'm on disability allowance). None of this was done on the original day in court (late Nov) so I fired them and I'm representing myself. I've contacted the Garda Ombudsman and the DPP asking for a 'Gary Doyle' disclosure of the evidence.

Any opinions? Any links to websites or suggestions for books that I should read.

Thanks.

crystalmice

get. a. solicitor.

I understand they can be expensive, and legal aud solicitors may nto be as committed as you want them to be, but you really really need representation in a case like this.

This is not straightforward- there are many elements to it, and the complication of the attitude/behaviour of the arresting gardai and your complaint against them will only serve to make your own appearnace in court more difficult.
While the two issues (the charge against you and your complaint against the gardai) may be linked in your mind, the fact is the judge will only care about the charge against you. If you start mouthing off about how the guards treated you the judge will get pissed off, because even though it may be true in your case, every drunkard who comes into the district court on an intoxication charge says 'the guards made it up, they hit me, theresno eveidence, they treated me badly ect'.
Ask any lawyer- the number one rule of court is dont piss off the judge!

The issues of medical evidence ect will also complicate things.

You really need a lawyer to ensure your case stays on track- it doesnt matter that the solicitor told you to plead out, all you ahve to do is refuse to plead and then the solicitor must defend you on all charges as you instruct him. he cannot make you plead. You have a far better chance here with representation, so get some!

A solicitor cannot make you plead if you dont want to. They must do what you tell them to. so get one and just be clear with them that you want to fight this.

Self representation is always risky, and I really think there are too many elements in this ase that you should consider doing it alone.
Just my advice.
Best of luck

MagicSean

Just so we are clear. You went out drinking despite having a medical condition which meant you suffered harsher effects both physically and mentally. You got in an argument with a man in a fast food shop and then ran after him and punched him in the back of the head. You were arrested and then decided to play dead in the cell and make as much hassle as you could. You were released and then wasted more time by calling 999 for no reason. Can I assume that throughout all this you weren't entirely cooperative? You made a complaint to the Ombudsman, as is your right, but then dropped the case due to lack of cctv in the garda station (i don't see why you would drop the case and not let the Ombudsman continue their investigation, I think there is some info missing here.) You declined to be adult cautioned because you had a medical condition on the night. Your solicitor, having heard your version of events, advised you to plead guilty to the section 4 (mostly likely because you admittedly knowingly consumed alcohol despite having a medical condition which would cause the alcohol to have a more severe effect) but instead of listening to his advice you fired him and now you would like people here to help you defend your actions. Am I right so far?

Here is my advice. Go back to the Gardaí and plead with them to be allowed take the caution. If they refuse go back to your solicitor and plead with him to take you back and get you the deal. I don't think you'll get legal aid on a public order charge but maybe your local judge is different to mine. If your solicitor refuses then get another one. Bring at least €200 to court with you. Ditch the self righteous attitude and think about what you actually did and how you behaved on the night.

nodolan

@ crystalmice I appreciate the advice - I needed to hear that bit regarding what the judge does or doesn't want to hear. I don't have any money for legal representation, in fact I'm in debt and will have less money as of January 1st with the cutbacks.

@ k_mac I wasn't aware of my condition. I had kidney failure as a child and no one ever told me that I was susceptible to it reoccurring again as an adult. I didn't 'get into an argument' - it was totally unprovoked and despite me ignoring the man initially he continued to attack me and threaten me. It was completely out of character for me to get physical like that. I didn't 'play dead', I was severely ill and didn't even know it until I started urinating blood (though I suspected something was wrong as I felt exhausted and disorientated but I had been very ill with a recurring chest infection for the four months previous and thought maybe I was still not over that). I was totally cooperative which is why I included in my post how the female Garda looked shocked at the male Garda's attitude and how she refused to arrest me at his instruction. There is no info missing regarding the complaint to the Ombudsman - I was told quite clearly that it was my word against theirs and that with no CCTV to prove what happened in the station that they would collude against me - so no, you're not right so far and I'm not being self-righteous which is more than I can say about you.

Thanks.

seamus

Just remember that there are 3 sides to every story - your side, their side and the truth.

I'm not going to be as harsh as k_mac here, but there are aspects missing from your story which make me think your solicitor has the right idea;

nodolan wrote: »

I retaliated by running after him and slapping him on the side of the head, he was a huge guy who subsequently swatted me to the ground three times.

You don't say what precipitated this "abuse". Your wording is also ambiguous - "swatted" you away, sounds like he pushed you away to get you out of his face, but you kept coming back.

A male Garda came out of the joint all enraged shouting at me that he had seen the video and that I had caused all the trouble

If he saw the above happening - you running after a guy and hitting him, getting pushed back and coming back again twice more after getting pushed back, then the Garda obviously formed the opinion that you were the aggressor here and hence took a dim view of you acting the victim. Whether you were or not is irrelevant, I'm simply trying to see the Garda's POV.

I was shown some sheets of paper that were apparently my rights and I noticed item two or three mentioned a phone call.

Did you not read the sheets of paper?

caused me to cry out in pain.
.....
I spent the next three hours banging on the cell door demanding my phone call
.....
there were Gardaí coming in off the street and I appealed to them to not let this 'injustice' take place.

You were making a lot of noise. You say in a post that you were very co-operative, but the three sentences above contradict that. Probably driving the Gardai mad, and no doubt adding in things like, "You can't do this, I know my rights", and so forth.

If I was someone watching this objectively, you would appear to have been arrested because you were a very loud and obnoxious drunk who'd started a fight, and their intention was to keep you locked up overnight to sleep it off.

so it was impossible for me to be 'intoxicated' plus I wasn't behaving according to my normal character because of it.

As k_mac says, your medical condition more than likely enhanced your intoxication and led to this change in character. You must also accept that if it changed your character, it likely has caused you to remember the incident less clearly than you think you do.

The Gardaí (and DPP) have rejected (so it seems) all my medical evidence and the witness statements as to being the original victim in this matter and I am due to appear in court later in December.

Your medical condition would go some way towards explaining your actions, but it doesn't excuse them.
If the DPP has ignored your evidence or otherwise doesn't consider it strong enough to mount a defence against their charges, then you must accept that their evidence is a lot stronger then yours. It doesn't matter who's actually right, and it doesn't matter that you're enraged about the incident - what matters is evidence, and you appear to have very little.

Remember that I'm not trying to draw conclusions here or tell you that you're wrong. But I've just read a completely biased account of what occured that night, and I was still able to interpret it in such a way that you don't come out smelling of roses. Certainly your treatment at the hands of the Gardai is appalling, but doesn't seem to be relevant in terms of the charges you're facing.

You're taking a big risk representing yourself if you're looking at a criminal conviction. Get a second opinion by hiring another solicitor.

I would tend to be of the opinion that if he thinks pleading guilty to the lesser charge will resolve the whole matter, then you should do that.

MagicSean

nodolan wrote: »

I wasn't aware of my condition. I had kidney failure as a child and no one ever told me that I was susceptible to it reoccurring again as an adult.

Kidney failure would not cause any of the symptoms you originally described. It would cause severe pain. I don't think kidney failure would leave you intoxicated either. If it was kidney failure you would be in hospital now. You probably had a kidney infection and just drank too much.

nodolan wrote: »

I didn't 'get into an argument' - it was totally unprovoked and despite me ignoring the man initially he continued to attack me and threaten me. It was completely out of character for me to get physical like that.

Yet the cctv and staff in the takeaway seem to have told the Garda you started the trouble and you also swung the first punch.

nodolan wrote: »

I didn't 'play dead', I was severely ill and didn't even know it until I started urinating blood (though I suspected something was wrong as I felt exhausted and disorientated but I had been very ill with a recurring chest infection for the four months previous and thought maybe I was still not over that).

These things would be reasons not to drink at all. How did you not know you were ill if you claim you couldn't get off the ground?

nodolan wrote: »

I was totally cooperative which is why I included in my post how the female Garda looked shocked at the male Garda's attitude and how she refused to arrest me at his instruction.

Very few Gardaí would arrest someone for public order because another Garda tells them to.

nodolan wrote: »

There is no info missing regarding the complaint to the Ombudsman - I was told quite clearly that it was my word against theirs and that with no CCTV to prove what happened in the station that they would collude against me

So the Ombudsman contacted you and told you that Gardaí would collude against you and with no cctv you would be better off dropping the complaint. Did you get this in writing?

nodolan wrote: »

- so no, you're not right so far and I'm not being self-righteous which is more than I can say about you.

I think you should be glad there is no cctv. Most people with your story get quite embarassed when they see their actual behaviour in stations. I'll stcik with my previous advice. Do your best to get the adult caution or get your solicitor back. As crystalmice said the judge will have heard your story plenty of times before.

MagicSean

nodolan wrote: »

I was shown some sheets of paper that were apparently my rights and I noticed item two or three mentioned a phone call. My non-national partner was in Ireland for his first time and I didn't know if he had the key to my apartment - I told the Gardaí this and requested a phone call, they laughed at me and threw me into a cell. I spent the next three hours banging on the cell door demanding my phone call and finally only gave up when I collapsed on the cell floor.

I knew there was something else i had missed. The paper you got was your notice of rights. It would have been read over to you and explained to you if you had remained calm. You would then have signed to say you received it and it was explained to you. Your rights allow for a person to be notified that you are in custody or to communicate with someone who has an interest in your welfare. They do not allow for any phone call to anyone. And if you spent three hours banging on a metal door I think this may explain why you collapsed.

Rhamiel

To give my honest opinion and advice I would firstly say that to be subjected to unprovoked homophobic abuse is disgraceful and Im sorry that you experienced that.

However you are now looking at a situation where you are facing a criminal record and permanent convictions as well as the likely prospect of court fines and appearances which will add further stress to your life.

When you were subjected to the verbally threatening and homophobic abuse initially the CORRECT course of action would have been to make a complaint to the Gardai... Instead you initiated what constitutes an assault - you needlessly 'ran after him and slapped him'. It is clear you were agitated and aggressive If you had kept coming back after he 'swotted you back' and were more than likely verbally aggressive in response? - this behaviour is indeed offensive to public order and was not the right course of action to take.

I think you have to relax, take a deep breath and look at the situation from a perspective where you realize that your actions, although unfairly provoked, were not civilized.
The fact your facing a judge and three criminal conviction representing only yourself is worrying. More so the fact that I can tell you with much certainty that Judges DO NOT entertain dramatics or self made martyrdom.

Everyone gets it rough sometimes so Im afraid, my friend, the best thing to do for your own good is to suck it up and accept your behaviour was not exemplary. Ultimately it may not be too late to go back to the Garda Station and accept the caution. THIS IS BY A LONG WAY YOUR BEST OPTION. Its basically signing a piece of paper saying you've been warned. If you still feel the victim of injustice then follow through with a complaint against your original abuser and maybe as well have a civilised talk with the Garda in question to get his side of the story and maybe explain yours in a more controlled manner.

Tom Young

We don't give legal advice, and you don't seek it here either. See a solicitor.