Kicking Out

plcgirl

i have a 3 and a half year old connemara mare which i am currently schooling for hunts and also for using in pony club rallies.
She is a very kind pony and very willing, although one fault i can say ( which i only found out while hacking out today) is that she dosnt like any ponies being beind her and kicks out and bucks if they even get close!!....i tink it may be due to my other horse which dosnt get on with her.
she has never kicked out at a person and i have pulled her tail and drove up behind her aswell and she dosnt mind atal....it just seems to be a hate against other ponies!!

does anyone have any advice with how to deal with this problem!!?

fits

Actually, I suppose I'd better post a serious answer.

I wouldnt be letting her away with this at all. A kick from a horse can be really serious, and I just wouldnt take a horse out hunting that kicks frequently. Its not fair on the other followers and their horses, and you cant relax.

In the meantime, put a red ribbon in her tail when you're in company, and if she starts, reprimand her immediately.

convert

It's possible that your mare may have had a bad experience at some point with a horse either striking into her from behind or maybe a horse attacked her from behind and she's therefore taken to taking offensive action when another horse approaches from behind.

It'll be very hard for her to get her confidence back, but given that she's still young you should be able to work with her gradually and improve things.

Has she always done this or is it only recent? And is it just the other horse she does it to or any pony/horse that comes up behind her.

sipstrassi

Just discovered this a couple of weeks ago with my new mare as well. She's only 4 so hopefully not too ingrained.
Have been reading up on this and the main problem (behaviourly) is that your horse/pony should be paying attention to you and doing as you are asking/telling her and not making decisions all on her lonesome!

Have booked a week off work over Christmas to work on this.

One of the suggestions is to ride in an arena with another horse close to you. As the other horse starts to move closer and you can see yours about to react turn her off the track and make her work hard for a few minutes. Then rejoin the track and keep this up until she stops. Don't know if this is making hard work seem negative to her though!

The other suggestions are to immediately pull her attention back to you when you see her about to react.
Some recommend a tap but saw an article that recommended bouncing up and down in the saddle like a demented monkey and saying 'Shhhhhhh...' until she focuses completely on you at which point you stop and stay calm and quiet. Eventually you should be able to stop the demented monkey bit (would look funny at a hunt!) and just use the 'Shhh..' to get her to focus on you.

Don't know how the above will work out but will give them a try.
Fingers crossed!

plcgirl

thanks for the replies.
i have sourced the reason behind her kicking and its because my other pony has started to go up behind her and kicked her viciously out of the blue. i now totally understand why she no has this instinct to kick out at all approaching ponies as a means of self defence but as shes young i feel that this bad experience may now stay with her.
i have moved the other pony away from her but i literally dont no how to handle the situation without putting another rider or pony in danger??

sipstrassi i have atchally read the same post about the "monky-ness", have you implemented this way, and if so how was it?
i am a bit cautious about using that method though as i dont want her to become frightfull of the rider aswell.

is there any other suggestions out there like putting thing in the stable with her at night or any other tested methods, im really stuck

sipstrassi

My own first thought about the bouncing up and down approach was that she might decide she doesn't want a monkey on her back. And at 16-3 I'm a long way from the ground!

Was at a hunt last Saturday and had 2m of red ribbon in her tail (she had only kicked out once before at one particular horse). Still had someone come right up her bum so she lashed out. When I corrected her she got panicky, and then so did I (my first hunt in 10 years, her first hunt ever). This was her first time in a large group so wasn't really the place to start trying to fix her behaviour so I stayed near her stable buddy and well away from the main group.

I am going to start with the work in the arena. Have a very experienced friend with an older calmer horse who is going to do this with me. Will be doing it over Christmas when I have the time to do it every day to reinforce it. Will carry a stick as well but don't really want to belt her into submission. I think she is young enough, as is your pony to be taught not to do this.
I will keep you posted on how I get on.

In the meantime, would love to hear how others have dealt with this.

Ave Sodalis

I heard someone being told this anout a horse that bucked and kicked out when doing so, and I think it would work if it was applied here.

If you feel the horse about to kick out, or notice any signs or reasons that it may kick (horse close behind, ears back etc) then keep her head busy. If you think she will buck, turn her to the left, then the right. Keep her focused on you and don't let her think about kicking, which is mentioned above.

Repeat as many times as necessary, even if you have to give her a bit of a tap, just as a reminder. It may also be a good idea, but not needed, to say 'don't' as you do so. This will get her concentrating on you and may even teach her a voice command.

Hope that helps

Borderfox

Good advice, redirection is a good way when training any animal, I use it on my guy on hacks to keep his mind busy and not worrying about the monsters

sup_dude wrote: »

I heard someone being told this anout a horse that bucked and kicked out when doing so, and I think it would work if it was applied here.

If you feel the horse about to kick out, or notice any signs or reasons that it may kick (horse close behind, ears back etc) then keep her head busy. If you think she will buck, turn her to the left, then the right. Keep her focused on you and don't let her think about kicking, which is mentioned above.

Repeat as many times as necessary, even if you have to give her a bit of a tap, just as a reminder. It may also be a good idea, but not needed, to say 'don't' as you do so. This will get her concentrating on you and may even teach her a voice command.

Hope that helps

plcgirl

thanks a mill for that, it seems a bit more assable for me to do than bouncing up and down. gointo try that tomorrow and let ye guys no how i get on, just hope this weather goes away so more work can be done

sipstrassi

The weather is proving a bit of a problem alright.
My girl is at home - 130 miles away (but just until the spring ). Supposed to go see her every weekend but even if I could get there the arena is frozen solid.

plcgirl

my little mare is still lashing out, its a bit more controlled bt none the less still there!!...i dont mind riding her when she does it, its the rider behind i feel its very unfair on!!:(....has any one had any joy in correcting this problem??

convert

plcgirl wrote: »

its the rider behind i feel its very unfair on!!:(....

This may sound a little callous, but anybody who within 'kicking distance' is riding too close to you and needs to drop back further, for their safety, the safety of their horse and yours (so as to avoid damaged tendons and heels).

Back on topic, I think you just need to give your mare a lot of time riding in company (with somebody sensible and competent, who is in full control of their horse/pony at all times) and letting her get her confidence back.

Having somebody riding behind you, about 3L back and to one side, will help as your mare will learn that having a horse behind her doesn't automatically mean that she's going to get kicked. If she puts her ears back focusing on the other horse, you need to make her pay attention to you, and if she attempts to kick, you need to turn her tail to the ditch immediately and reprimand her.

Obviously you're going to need somebody who's an experienced rider and who's able to read the situation well to help you with this, but it does help. And putting a red ribbon in her tail when in company is a good idea, too. Not only does it warn other riders that your mare may kick, but the fact that they won't (or shouldn't!) ride up so close on you may help her confidence, too.

fits

convert wrote: »

This may sound a little callous, but anybody who within 'kicking distance' is riding too close to you and needs to drop back further, for their safety, the safety of their horse and yours (so as to avoid damaged tendons and heels).

I would agree somewhat with this except for in the hunting field. Sometimes you just end up in a tight spot and its unavoidable. People with kickers should stay at the back of the field and have a red ribbon in the horses tail.

convert

fits wrote: »

I would agree somewhat with this except for in the hunting field. Sometimes you just end up in a tight spot and its unavoidable. People with kickers should stay at the back of the field and have a red ribbon in the horses tail.

It doesn't matter where somebody is riding, whether in a lesson, in a warm up arena, or out in the hunting field, they should never, ever ever find themselves in a position where they could cause damage to the horse in front of them (by striking into them), or where they may be kicked. When out hunting, nobody should ever be riding so close (even when getting a hunt) as to be in a positition of being incapable of pulling up a safe distance from the horse in front of them.

convert

Ok, just re-read that post, and it probably does come across as a bit snappy, but it's not directed at you, fits. Close riding is just something that really infuriates me as I've seen the damage that can be done to horses by careless riders striking into the horse in front of them. :mad:

Ave Sodalis

I know what you mean convert. I ride a mare who, for some reason, just seems to hate other horses except for a select few. There's nothing more annoying, or as heart stopping than when someone walks a horse close behind her without letting you or even the mare know that they are going to.
You just don't know how she's going to react.

+1 on the red ribbon OP. Until you get her used to other horses being behind her at least.

Keep working with her in groups but keep everyone well back at the start. Gradually work closer and closer to the other horses, always showing her that they are going to move behind her first. (this works best on the road as she can hear the hooves).

She will get used to it eventually OP. A little time and patience works wonders

sipstrassi

Hi plcgirl. When I got down to work my mare last week the kicking seems to have stopped.
My friend put her in her 'big field' with the main group of horses and ponies. With the weather there was a round bale in the field and it was close quarters around it. She seems to have gotten used to having others she doesn't know well around her.
Not sure if throwing her in with a big group is an option for you?
Seems to have done the trick in my case, but still wearing the red ribbon for the moment.

plcgirl

i totally agree with all that convert. i brought my mare ot on a hunt on sunday at wore a big red ribbon on her tail and kept to the very back!!...unfortunatly some people cleary dont understand what a red ribbon means and when at rare stages when people would slip in behind me thay would come up right behind me!!...thankfully my pony has now understood that when i say shhhh she calms her self down...and im very proud of her of course, but as fits said sometimes its impossible to keep ot of the way!!...none the less i am seeing progress, slowly but surly!!!.....it just frustrates me aswell when people dont simply understand the basic principals of safety!!!!

plcgirl

hi sipstrassi, im glad that the kicking has stopped for you!!!....i brought my mare on a hunt on sunday and she had improved. she still pinned her ears back and did kick out a few times, but she did find reassurance in my voice when i said SHHHH very loudly!!!...she did get used to some horses behind her, but would still be nervous with new 1s!!!....that seems like a good idea what you said, although i dont no where i would find other ponies tyo put her in with. i have friend who live near me who i culd put her in with, but i feel a bit cheeky asking can she live off their land!! none the less, congrats on cracking your horse, i will keep ye posted on how i get on!!!.....:)

Ave Sodalis

Well done plcgirl! Some progress is good progress

Keep it up. I know, some people really don't understand. Prehaps mention it to them next time either before or after