Ulster side

borna7

Mixed performance from Ulster against Bath but a result which combined with Aironi beating Biarritz puts Ulster in with a realistic chance of topping the group. Are Ulster for real and ready to step up and challenge consistently in Europe like Munster and Leinster?

They certainly now have a pack which can compete with any and they have depth in the forwards also. They also now appear to have some talented backs coming through who hopefully can continue to progress. Guys like Spence, Gilroy, Marshall and Jackson. Jackson's progress in particular could be crucial given fly half is one area of weakness. Humphreys is just too prone to head stagger moments.

Would also love to see Willie Faloon given an extended run at 7 as he a rare thing in Irish rugby a genuine 7. Also Dan Tuohy is starting to return to his form of last season and really think he could be a future regular in Ireland squads in the not too distance future. Think he offers more than Ryan and at 25 and with only a couple of years of professional rugby behind him reckon he will continue to improve at a good rate particularly with Muller around to learn from.

Will be a blow to lose Botha if as seems likely he returns to South Africa in the summer but every cloud has a silver lining and this will give more opportunities to young Irish props like McAllister and Fitzpatrick.

With the age profile of the current squad think the future is positive. What is the thinking in other parts of Ireland?

jolley123

Think Ulster's investment into working with the academy is really starting to show. Spence handled himself well today,Gilroy looks great, so does Marshall/Jackson/McGuigan. Think if they get the 5 against Aironi they are in with a good chance of making the quarter finals but I don't see them going further than that. They have the pack this year but lack a good kicking ten and some really threatening backs. Although their backline is good, it lacks some pace I feel. This year probably won't be the year but I see them reaching the standards of Leinster and Munster in the near future. The one thing that would trip them up though, is the point you made about Botha. They need to come up with a capable replacement.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I've a lot of respect for Ulster after turning themselves around since last season.

If they lose Botha neither of the other props in the squad have the ability to replace him imo.

The age profile is impressive and there are a few players, Spence, Gilroy that can make a major step up.

I'm not sure if they will reach the highs of Leinster and Munster, consistantly challenging in quarters and semis year in and year out but I see them as a kind of European midweight. Sometimes reaching the quarters (sometimes getting lucky there) and sometimes coming second in their group and competing in the Amlin.

Best of luck to Uster I hope they can get through.

Hype710

I have high hopes for Ulster in the coming years to get back to the successes they have reached. Their brand of rugby often surpasses their provincial colleages but are let down by inconsistency. Their away bonus point win in Cardiff recently highlights what they're capable of.

I hope they hold on to the likes of Stephen Ferris as he remains crucial to their plans and was outstanding against Bath. Although Wannenburg had a good game yesterday I haven't been overly impressed with him and like posters above I'd like to see Falloon being given an extended run in the team. Marshall, Spence, Jackson and Gilroy all look like future Irish internationals. Paddy Wallace sometimes struggles for Ireland but is so often excellent for Ulster. Hope they get out of their group!

thomond2006

I don't think Wannenburg has made the impact Xavier Rush would have made had he decided to come to Ulster.

With Pollock gone, Faloon is the only out and out 7 in the squad (open to correction) and it would be good to see him get more gametime. Ulster seem to have gone down the road of picking the biggest backrow possible rather than looking at balance and different skillsets.

Ulster have a big chance to win that pool. With all the investment in the South Africans, they really need to produce some sort of positive result from it. Even a run in the Amlin (a comp they could win) would be good.

Redsock

There is no doubt we are heading the right direction. I think that if the likes of paddy Jackson and luke fulfill their potential then we can return to our rightful place as being the leading province in ulster and then we ulster supporters can post on forums with well meaning condescention on the fortunes of Leinster and munster.

I think at the moment we are a 10, a 15 and a coach away from seriously challenging.

Ulster seem to be 2 steps ahead of the other provinces in blooding players at the right time imo.

Show faith in the younger lads, and they've shone when called upon.

They're the only province that is really progressing as a team and as a squad. Every few months we have another name added to a teamsheet that doesn't weaken the team in the slightest.

Their academy is smaller than others, but where it lacks quantity, it has huge quality coming through, and these players are getting shots when they're still young and inexperienced, and growing hugely from it.

Tuohy had a super game yesterday, an incredibly athletic lock. I really think that he will be an Ireland 40 capper. He just has so much to offer. And he actually had a great tour last year! Great to see him back on form.

Grit and determination will get you a far in rugby, its one of those games where flair and talent don't always overshadow someone's basic "need" to win. And Ulster have bags of it.

Great to see them progressing to be the team they should be. I reckon by 2012 we'll see a new "leaderboard" of Irish rugby. They're timing their transition from older players to younger so much better than Munster and Leinster.

Stev_o

The problem with Ulster is that they ended last year with a lot of positives especially in the the pack where they have some outstanding home grown players and then provided to recruit a lock and a 8. Really they should of been shopping for a 10 and a 13 during the off season not a area where they actually have real strength.

Im desperate for Touhy to start playing consecutive games for Ireland he's the big modern day lock that we'v been desperate to find and honestly think the sky is the limit with how he can progress.

danthefan

Does anyone think Ulster would have stuck with Clermont today for 80 mins or hung on for 15 minutes down to 14 men? I don't tbh.

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

Does anyone think Ulster would have stuck with Clermont today for 80 mins or hung on for 15 minutes down to 14 men? I don't tbh.

nope, doubt it. But as said above, they're a team in transition making the right steps.

They aren't the finished article. But they'll get there

Digifriendly

Ulster need consistency - they had a few superb wins last season e.g. Stade Francais(HC home)/Edinburgh (ML away) but this was mixed with some pretty poor performances e.g. Glasgow (home);Dragons (away). This season in ML they have been very good away to Cardiff and away to Treviso but poor at home to a weakened Munster and poor away to Edinburgh. Same in HC - poor away to Biarritz but reasonably good vs Bath despite gifting them 2 tries. They now need to back this up by winning in Bath and beating Biarritz at home and Aironi away to get through to the next stage. They lack the consistency of both Munster and Leinster who when they're not playing at their best still can eke out results.

danthefan

Deleted User wrote: »

nope, doubt it. But as said above, they're a team in transition making the right steps.

They aren't the finished article. But they'll get there

Transition from what to what? That's nothing but a cliche imo. They've had 3 very very poor seasons in a row that there's really no excuse for. Time to get their act together.

danthefan

danthefan wrote: »

Transition from what to what? That's nothing but a cliche imo. They've had 3 very very poor seasons in a row that there's really no excuse for. Time to get their act together.

cliche?

Transition from a decent side to a poor side took a while for them, now they're developing into a strong team from what was a weak one.

Their transfers, though excessive €wise imo have proven succesful, and they are building a squad, not just a team, that can start to challenge for HEC's and ML titles.

Toulon, a side that were ****e, bought a load of players in, they don't just snap into being a good side overnight. There is a transition phase, its hardly a cliche if it exists.

The three poor seasons in a row aren't being excused, they've had them, simple as, the progress they've shown in the last 8/12 months has been huge though.

jolley123

What do people think about Piennar playing at 10 and Williams playing at 9. Think it's worth experimenting with.

CIARAN_BOYLE

jolley123 wrote: »

What do people think about Piennar playing at 10 and Williams playing at 9. Think it's worth experimenting with.

Piennar was promised that he wouldn't have to play 10 when he came to Ulster iirc.

His problem in SA was that he kept being moved between the positions and he never nailed down a single spot which he wanted.

outwest

danthefan wrote: »

Transition from what to what? That's nothing but a cliche imo. They've had 3 very very poor seasons in a row that there's really no excuse for. Time to get their act together.

in farinees, how much have the spent on 3 players. they needed to imporve from last year, but i dont see ulster getting out of group, away form is poor.

in the league i can see them being a best midtable by may

PhatPiggins

outwest wrote: »

in farinees, how much have the spent on 3 players. they needed to imporve from last year, but i dont see ulster getting out of group, away form is poor.

in the league i can see them being a best midtable by may

They can beat Arroni/Biarritz at home and will have no fear of Bath. They have every chance of topping that group which would be a great achievement. Away form is poor - its been impring in the HC and they have the one of the best records in the ML.

Grand they played some dumb rugby at the weekend but cut out 3/4 of the stupider mistakes and they would have given Bath a hiding.

Ulster annoy the absolute bollix out of me, they are so close to being a really good team but everytime you think they've moved on they regress again.

profitius

Buying in a few expensive foreigners is not the way to go. You always get the feeling Ulster are looking at Munster and leinster too much and wanting to be at that level straight away. They need to be patient and accept the level they are currently at.

For Ulster to be successful again they have to start producing quality young players. At the moment there seems to be plenty of talent coming through their academy system. They have to keep this up and build up their squad. That takes years to do but the key is to be producing more quality than they're losing (through retirements etc) like Leinster and Munster are doing.

It'd be great for Irish rugby to have 4 strong provinces. Ulster will get there and Connacht will become stronger too in the coming years.

thomond2006

Pienaar hasn't produced the goods at 9 at all. I'd move him to 10 and stick Marshall at 9.

jolley123

thomond2006 wrote: »

Pienaar hasn't produced the goods at 9 at all. I'd move him to 10 and stick Marshall at 9.

That's what I was saying, but apparently they've sort of promised him security in one position. He doesn't want to be moved like he was for the sharks.

LostPassword

With a good 10, Ulster would have beaten Bath by about 40. iHumph made the crucial mistakes for both Bath tries and managed to keep them in the game through just terrible tactical mistakes / decisions despite their pack taking one hell of a beating.

Digifriendly

jolley123 wrote: »

That's what I was saying, but apparently they've sort of promised him security in one position. He doesn't want to be moved like he was for the sharks.

You said Williams at 9 (post 14). Wondering who this was - was it the young scrum half presently at Cardiff Blues (son of Brynmor Williams S4C pundit) or did Harry Williams (ex Ulster coach) have a son who played scrum half?
BTW anyone see RTE's HC highlights where both George Hook and the presenter (think it's Tom McGurk) completely dismissed Ulster's chances of qualifying from their pool? Brent Pope was a bit fairer towards Ulster in my opinion.

jolley123

Digifriendly wrote: »

You said Williams at 9 (post 14). Wondering who this was - was it the young scrum half presently at Cardiff Blues (son of Brynmor Williams S4C pundit) or did Harry Williams (ex Ulster coach) have a son who played scrum half?
BTW anyone see RTE's HC highlights where both George Hook and the presenter (think it's Tom McGurk) completely dismissed Ulster's chances of qualifying from their pool? Brent Pope was a bit fairer towards Ulster in my opinion.

No, I meant Marshall but said Williams for some reason. Brainfart.

Redsock

Digifriendly wrote: »

You said Williams at 9 (post 14). Wondering who this was - was it the young scrum half presently at Cardiff Blues (son of Brynmor Williams S4C pundit) or did Harry Williams (ex Ulster coach) have a son who played scrum half?
BTW anyone see RTE's HC highlights where both George Hook and the presenter (think it's Tom McGurk) completely dismissed Ulster's chances of qualifying from their pool? Brent Pope was a bit fairer towards Ulster in my opinion.

Hook being disrespectful towards ulster?!! Surely not.

PhatPiggins

Redsock wrote: »

Hook being disrespectful towards ulster?!! Surely not.

Hook being able to name an Ulster player other the Ferris/Best/Wallace/Trimble definitely not.

Wheeker

Digifriendly wrote: »

BTW anyone see RTE's HC highlights where both George Hook and the presenter (think it's Tom McGurk) completely dismissed Ulster's chances of qualifying from their pool? Brent Pope was a bit fairer towards Ulster in my opinion.

I know- there's a total lack of respect! :mad: George Hook I expect totally biased, chip-on-shoulder, pantomime comments from (He's NEVER had a good word to say about Ulster). However Tom McGurk should be a bit more impartial (he's from Tyrone for gawds sake!), but he made some comment about "what a difference between Ulster & Leinster, Ulster have to buy expensive SA imports whilst Leinster have some great young talent coming-up through their Academy". HOLD ON- Ulster also have some great youngsters coming through (Gilroy, Spence, Jackson, McComb etc.), not to mention young players introduced in the last 2 seasons (Marshall, McCrea, Cave, O'Connor, Pollock, Faloon, Smith, Seymour, Whitten etc.).

Recently every time Ulster are mentioned in the press they are referred to as "big spending Ulster on all their SA imports". However, I have heard no concrete evidence as to what they actually did pay for Pienaar, Wannenburg & Muller. Way more than Munster paid for Howlett, Mafi & Tuitupou? Also, am I wrong in that every province has the same number NIQ imports, just that Ulster's happen to be mostly SA- so what?

Anyhow, I do realise that Ulster are inconsistent & until they do actually get results regularly they will not get any respect from McGurk/Hook, fair enough I suppose :rolleyes:

jacothelad

George is getting on a bit and is very confused a lot of the time. He thinks Jack Kyle is still in the squad.;) Tom knows as much about rugby as Hooky knows about existentialist philosophy. Nothing to worry about. It'll be nice to see them wriggle a bit if Ulster get their act together. The gibberish about 'big spending Ulster' and other sneeringly snide blether is just because the two of them are so bone idle that they don't do any research before a programme. It is after all a long way away here and we've eaten nearly all the babies.