Turbo vs road cycle

airscotty

Seen as the ice is out and the turbo trainer is getting a lot of use I'd be interested to hear what people fell is the difference between the turbo and a road spin?

Would an hour on the turbo = 1:30 on the road aprox?
The longest i'v done is close to 2hrs to substitute for a 3hr saturday spin i missed. would you think 2 on the turbo = 3 on the road? it sure felt like it!

mfdc

The turbo feels harder, but I don't think it actually is any harder. I'm doing my training based on heart rate at the minute, and usually do a 2hr spin on a Saturday at about 140bpm no problem. Got a turbo a week ago and within 10 minutes at 140bpm I wanted off, felt like slow torture.

As the HR showed me though, the actual measurable exertion level was the same - it just felt a hell of a lot worse. While heart rate is variable, you can't get a better measure than power - I'd guess that people with power meters would confirm that while the turbo feels a lot harder they're putting the same power out as they would be on the road.

That's my take on it anyway! Given how crap the turbo feels it's natural to want to believe that an hour there is 2 hours or more on the road, makes it seem worthwhile It's the same story with running on a treadmill, 10 miles outside you zone out and it goes easy while 20 minutes on the treadmill is torture that just crawls by.

Beasty

mfdc wrote: »

- I'd guess that people with power meters would confirm that while the turbo feels a lot harder they're putting the same power out as they would be on the road.

I find it's typically less power output on the turbo, but the big difference is you don't get the benefit of freewheeling (or drafting, not that I get many chances on the road, unless racing). Even on the VR turbo, which does allow for an element of freewheeling, I find myself pushing it on the downslopes.

The other main reason I think the turbo is harder is you do not get the cooling benefit from riding at speed through air, which quickly turns it into a sweatfest. However after an hour or so (my turbo sessions are typically 90 minutes or more), I find, in the very cold weather, that the cooling of the sweat-swamped cycling gear can start to be equally uncomfortable, unless you start changing tops for something drier

markdrayton

mfdc wrote: »

I'd guess that people with power meters would confirm that while the turbo feels a lot harder they're putting the same power out as they would be on the road.

Yep. Most people find that for a given perceived exertion power output on an indoor trainer is lower. The main reasons are explained here:

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2009/01/turbocharged-training.html

The summary is: 1) you get really hot, 2) turbo trainers have very little inertia and exaggerate the dead spot in the pedal stroke, 3) lower motivation indoors, 4) need time to adapt.

A really big fan helps. I got a 18" floor fan which makes workouts much more tolerable. Now instead of the sweat pouring off it's only dripping now and then. If you can train outside or next to an open window, so much the better.

So sadly turbo time isn't automatically worth more than road time -- as noted, if anything, you're likely to put out *less* power than on the road and as a result will not get the same adaptions as a higher workload. But the turbo's advantage is that it's a completely controlled environment -- if you go out to ride x minutes at y power [1] that's what you get. No stops for traffic, no coasting round corners, etc. No riding out and back. A session on the turbo can be all quality and no faffing about.

I've been doing quite a lot on the turbo recently, mostly long intervals (2x20' or 3x20') and will try the infamous "hour of power" soon. Google it. 2 or 3 such sessions a week is quite manageable.

[1] you don't need a power meter to make the most of a turbo, you just need some way to ensure consistency across workouts so you can track progress and make sure you're doing the same work as you fatigue. Turbos with power meters (Tacx Flow or similar, a third the cost of a Powertap) are good, and if you're careful about keeping the setup consistent (same resistance, tyre, tyre pressure) rear wheel speed is a good proxy for power.

Quigs Snr

I have done 2.5hr sessions on a VR trainer, same as Beasty's one. Undulating terrain but consistent power output. With a big fan cooling you, its more manageable, but like most I find it more difficult in my head than in my legs. I feel like I am working hard, but my legs are never blown they way they would be after a similar spin outdoors. One thing I do find is that my knees kill me after too much turbo time.

ROK ON

I find the turbo fine up to an hour - but it is hard on the mind unless I have some good choons to listen to (Dave Couse on Today FM from 7-10pm is good).
I think the best use is to decide what you want to do in the work out. Easier to follow a structure, whereas on the road it is easier to just ride the bike (thats not to say that one shouldnt do structured workouts on the road).
Finally, I find spinning classes much easier on the mind but harder on the body. In that I mean that I find it much easier to dig really deep and feel the hurt in a spinning class with an instructer shouting FASTER FASTER FASTER.

morana

I love the turbo!!

Get the workout down and do it. If you have the PM then it makes it all the better. I usually start in November but delayed the start this year purposely but I do it instead of going to howth or elsewhere in the dark because you cant train properly in the dark on the road etc.

The hour of power!!!
its a killer I believe

cantalach

I dunno about it being less of a workout. I couldn't get out last weekend with the weather so I did 2:00 on the turbo averaging 84% HRmax. This morning I went out with the usual Sat morning group and averaged only 75% for 2:45.

I think the turbo is harder on the legs in some ways - probably because of the lack of momentum through the top of the pedal stroke. My hip flexors always act up during cold snaps when I spend a lot of time on my turbo. They're feckin killing me after rhe last two weeks!

el tel

Was reading today that turbo sessions should be 50% duration of road session.

markdrayton

cantalach wrote: »

I dunno about it being less of a workout. I couldn't get out last weekend with the weather so I did 2:00 on the turbo averaging 84% HRmax. This morning I went out with the usual Sat morning group and averaged only 75% for 2:45.

I think the turbo is harder on the legs in some ways - probably because of the lack of momentum through the top of the pedal stroke. My hip flexors always act up during cold snaps when I spend a lot of time on my turbo. They're feckin killing me after rhe last two weeks!

Yep, that's exactly why it feels harder -- the mechanical action isn't quite the same as the road. That and you get a lot hotter, which raises your HR much higher than doing the same work (ie, putting out the same power) on the road with a cooling breeze.

morana

markdrayton wrote: »

..That and you get a lot hotter, which raises your HR much higher than doing the same work (ie, putting out the same power) on the road with a cooling breeze.

Thats why power is superior as a measure of intensity but the turbo sessions dont need to be 2-3hrs long. A focus on the right system will provide as much if not more improvements than going out for along spin on the road.

dexty

had a good summer on the bike, plenty of milage, improved a lot, lost a few kg's in the process. Sorta took a break then for about 3 weeks before i pulled the turbo out, boy do u lose fitness quick, but a couple of 30 min sessions soon brought most of it back. Dunno how anyone can do 2-3 hrs on a turbo, crazy, what i do is 30 mins every day, sometimes 60, about 10 mins of a warm up, maybe 10 30 second intervals all out with 30 secs recovery in between and then 10 mins steady at about 140-150bps. Mainly base my fitness on my HB rate. I notice bigtime how lower that is, how quick it recovers depending on how fit i am/how much I am doing. Reasonable article this month about HRM training in one of the magazines. It's not all about killing yourself everytime u get up on the turbo.

I suppose the only question i have is am i doing it right or am i doing enough? Usually do it at @9pm, then shower and bed with a bowl of Alpen. I would like to get my bodyfat down a bit more and cud skip the alpen to try and lose a bit more but would be terrified that i'd lose power or recovery in my legs, hav the alpen mainly to recover my legs after the spin. Would having my dinner a couple of hours before hand be enough anyway?

Also spent 5 days in Spain recently on the bike doing about 300K (over the week) in about 2 hours every day, that brought my fitness on a lot, lost a good bit of body fat, but cant do that every week!

So how much is enough to keep the pounds down and the fitness levels up without over doing it? Is it best to do 30-40 mins every day or better to do a longer one every second day with perhaps weights in between?

sometimes i noticed my best rides during the summer were when i hadn't been out for 4 or 5 days or more and was well carb'ed up in between, felt so strong, so makes me wonder is my recovery up to stratch?

Rergards, D

Sr. Assumpta

Am tentatively investigating rollers and found this on BikeRadar today......

“Turbos and rollers both allow you 100 percent control of your effort and intensity,” says Pringle (Dr Jamie Pringle, senior physiologist at the English Institute of Sport), “and, without having to worry about traffic and junctions, they’re ideal for finely controlled, constant power efforts such as intervals. Riding for two hours indoors, without stops or being able to freewheel, is equivalent to three hours on the road.”

tunney

Sr. Assumpta wrote: »

Am tentatively investigating rollers and found this on BikeRadar today......

“Turbos and rollers both allow you 100 percent control of your effort and intensity,” says Pringle (Dr Jamie Pringle, senior physiologist at the English Institute of Sport), “and, without having to worry about traffic and junctions, they’re ideal for finely controlled, constant power efforts such as intervals. Riding for two hours indoors, without stops or being able to freewheel, is equivalent to three hours on the road.”

Its not 2 hours versus three hours.

Or anything of the sort.

I am a big turbo fan and I use me alot (too much??).

Looking at the work done (joules) for a outdoor and indoor ride - its pretty much the same. Just done differenty - more consistent on the turbo, more ups and downs on the road.

shotgunmcos

I'm assuming that none of you are comparing the turbo to any of your group rides...

GlennaMaddy

markdrayton wrote: »

A really big fan helps.

Must ask the wife to stand beside me and cheer me on next time

Jawgap

GlennaMaddy wrote: »

Must ask the wife to stand beside me and cheer me on next time

Wait 'til your wife sees that post!! You're deader than a dead thing!

What you mean by "big" and what she thinks you mean by "big" have just guaranteed you a fairly lean Christmas.......:)

Beasty

This thread went off at a tangent (;)), so I've moved all the pedalling science stuff here

Beasty

doozerie

Was it a forward tangent or a downward tangent? Science demands an answer!

Back on topic, BikeRadar/Cycling Plus have this article with advice on using a turbo trainer. It's likely to contain as much contentious advice as any other source though, of course, but may be worth a read anyway.