Received an infraction

stepbar

I would like someone to review Buffybot's decision to give me an infraction for a post I made in the banking forum (happy to send detail of same to the CMod when requested to). To be honest it would be best for the CMod to review the PM's I sent to Buffybot on the matter (AFAIK a CMod can examine my PM's?).

No issue with the infraction but there was a carbon copy post in another forum which attracted a yellow card (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69465301&postcount=836). I got a straight red and the post was also deleted.

Don't think this is fair modding and a bit overly heavy handed.

EDIT: And now I've been banned for responding to a person who called me a wanker. I suggested that he "fcuking complain himself". Don't see what the issue is bar the use of language, which IMO was completly warrented.

Ridiculous

Zaph

stepbar wrote: »

To be honest it would be best for the CMod to review the PM's I sent to Buffybot on the matter (AFAIK a CMod can examine my PM's?).

If you want to have PMs considered you'll have to post them here, as is permitted by this forum's charter. Nobody, including admins, can examine your PMs. It is technically possible for Ross or Conor to do so, but the work involved in doing so means that this is very rarely done, and usually requires a request from the Gardaí before that much effort is expended.

stepbar

Zaph wrote: »

If you want to have PMs considered you'll have to post them here, as is permitted by this forum's charter. Nobody, including admins, can examine your PMs. It is technically possible for Ross or Conor to do so, but the work involved in doing so means that this is very rarely done, and usually requires a request from the Gardaí before that much effort is expended.

That's fine. Done.
In the best order I can starting with first PM to BB

stepbar wrote:

That's fine BB. Absolutely no issue with the infraction. Was fully expecting it. IMO it had to be said.

But as mentioned many times before when a "clown" like the poster attacks my "ilk" (like all my "ilk" are of equal standing :rolleyes:) I feel compelled to respond.

BTW with respect, the post below needs to be sorted out as well if this infraction is to hold any real weight. That's a personal attack against me. That poster is inferring that I am a disgrace. Clown.

Sorry but I'm fuming and there are many other similar threads (recent) on this site which have me in a similar mood.....

BuffyBot wrote:

Dear stepbar,

You have received an infraction at boards.ie. This is an automatically generated message.

Reason: Breach of Peace

---

Hi there,

You know better than to ignore an on thread warning against personal attacks.

We've had this discussion before, and it's no more tolerated than it was then, so please don't continue in this vein.

Thanks,

BB

---

Infractions are a reminder to you that you have broken a rule, but not in a serious way. The rules for every forum can be seen in the Forum Charter which appears at the top of every forum. If you are unsure what rule you have broken or how, please PM the Moderator(s) of the forum and ask them. All forums are moderated differently, so if you made a similar comment on one forum, it doesn't necessarily mean it's ok to post it everywhere else. Remember that our Mods are volunteers and are not always online, so they may not be able to answer you straight away.

This infraction is worth 1 point(s). Earning 9 active infraction points results in an automatic site ban until at least one of them expires (Infractions are active for 10 days) - this is there as a means to keep serious trouble makers or spammers off the site.

Original Post:
[post]69459666[/post]

thelongfellow wrote: »

Yeah their arms must be sore from moving all that paper around their desk. You must be the union rep for your branch yeah? Considering staff were dumb enough to keep pushing mortgages onto people who couldn't afford them which led us to the mess the Irish banking system is in. Considering no staff bothered to speak about the lack of regulation, the off-book accounting going on, the fraudulent activities.

Go pick up your P45. You and your ilk are a disgrace.

Don't mind saying this but you sir are a Clown....

All the best,
boards.ie

stepbar wrote:

Didnt see an infraction or warning?

BuffyBot wrote:

That post was one of the reasons an on-thread warning was posted

BB

stepbar wrote:

Ok, where's the infraction?

BuffyBot wrote:

The on-thread warning is here

stepbar wrote:

With the height of respect BB you gave me a straight Red (I never even see the warning because I was fuming) and you didn't even pull him / her up with a Yellow Card? Seriously?

That's not fair modding now is it? It sounds like you believe it's ok for him / her to call me a disgrace? That's a joke if you think it is.

BuffyBot wrote:

There isn't one. The on-thread warning is the first step. When people continue to do what the on-thread warning asks them not you (as you did), then the infractions are handed out.

BB

stepbar wrote:

BB, no issue at all with the Red card. None at all. The fact you've gave me Red cards before is irrelevant. That's not the issue at all and you know it. Now if you want to continue to ignore the point being made in all the posts so far on this matter that's fine. But I'm not letting this one go. I couldn't give a fiddlers if no one got pulled up before me. I was called a disgrace and I responded in kind. Personal abuse on both sides, fine. But yet the originating party gets no direct warning (i.e a Yellow card). I'm sorry but that's a joke.

Up to you what you want to do but as I've said this one isn't going away.

BuffyBot wrote:

Again, I'll point out it's *not* the first time this discussion has been had with you. You've consistently shown an inability to conduct yourself within the etiquette expected on the forum - hence the red card. It's not the responsibility of the Mods to police your temper, or to ensure you read relevant posts.

You'll not that no-one (including you) got "pulled up" before that point. I believe it's fair to give everyone a shot across the bows during a heated thread as people do get worked up.

BB

stepbar wrote:

Sorry BB, but my post has been deleted. So what would you have done if I had to have reported the post for personal abuse and not responded to the reported post? Answer me that one? Ignore it? Because it sounds like it.

I'm sorry but your reply doen't cut it to be honest, and i'm a bit disapponted in the way you've handled it TBH.

BuffyBot wrote:

I've explained it as well as I possibly can to you. You ignored the warning, and had to get a post in. "He started it" doesn't cut it as an excuse, and I think you know it.

If you're not happy, I suggest you follow the Dispute Resolution Procedure and contact the CMods.

BB

stepbar wrote:

But yet you don't say whether you would have issued a Yellow card or not :rolleyes: It's not a Mods job to personalise an infraction based on past opinion which is exactly what you are doing. Your job is to moderate. A thankless job but ultimate the job is to moderate.

What's even worse is that there's a practical carbon copy of the post I made earlier http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69465301&postcount=836

Yellow card but I recieved a Red? Come on.....

Anyhow I'm tired and I'll sort this out later.

BuffyBot wrote:

I would have actioned it as I would any other report - but you didn't report it. Instead you decided to have a go yourself - a repeat of many previous occasions where you've done similar things. The proper course of action is to report the post, not respond. You've been around long enough to know better. As I said previously, "he started it" or "he did it first" doesn't really cut it, and I suspect you know that.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I find it hard to believe that you really think, given what you've seen in the past, or what you've been warned/infracted for, that it was a wholly unexpected result. At the end of the day an infraction is just a minor wrist slap in the boards.ie scheme of things.

Anyway, I doubt I can make you any more happy with it, or any more likely to accept what I'm saying. As suggested, if you're truly unhappy, you can ask a CMod to review it.

BB

jor el

stepbar wrote: »

I would like someone to review Buffybot's decision to give me an infraction for a post I made in the banking forum (happy to send detail of same to the CMod when requested to). To be honest it would be best for the CMod to review the PM's I sent to Buffybot on the matter (AFAIK a CMod can examine my PM's?).

No issue with the infraction but there was a carbon copy post in another forum which attracted a yellow card (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69465301&postcount=836). I got a straight red and the post was also deleted.

Two different forums, with different rules and posting styles, and the infractions given by two different mods to different users under different circumstances. This is not a carbon copy situation, and the two cannot be compared.

Red card or yellow card warning, there isn't that much of a difference. Following an on-thread warning, red is pretty appropriate.

stepbar wrote: »

Don't think this is fair modding and a bit overly heavy handed.

A ban would be heavy handed at this point, but you weren't banned at this point, so I think this is fair.

stepbar wrote: »

EDIT: And now I've been banned for responding to a person who called me a wanker. I suggested that he "fcuking complain himself". Don't see what the issue is bar the use of language, which IMO was completly warrented.

Ridiculous

You should have known from the two preceding warnings, that going further down the same path was not going to be allowed. When someone attacks you, the appropriate thing to do is report the post. Fuming or not, if you take it into your own hands, then you have to take whatever mod action goes with that.

stepbar

And yet you miss the entire point of the PMs.... No action was taken against the other poster.... Do you not think I'm entitled to defend myself against preposterous comments like "you and your ilk are a disgrace " "wan... Sorry banker" Are you having a laugh? I certainly hope you aren't because I ain't.

jor el

stepbar wrote:

And yet you miss the entire point of the PMs

No, I just don't really see the relevance. This is not the place to discuss what action is taken against other posters, it is a place to discuss what action was taken against you.

stepbar wrote:

Do you not think I'm entitled to defend myself against preposterous comments like

The correct course of action when you are wronged, is to report the post. By responding the way you did, you leave yourself open to sanction by the moderators. So no, you are not entitled to defend yourself on thread. If you want to have an argument with another poster, you take it to PM.

You started this thread by asking someone to review the giving of an infraction, as in yellow Vs red. This has been done, and I think the infraction should stand. You then added that you don't see why you've been banned, but the ban was given because you were personally warned about arguing on thread, and ignored this warning by continuing to post like that. Other users took the warning, and stopped.

As for taking action against other users for their posts, this is not for you to decide upon, nor do I believe it is a dispute resolution matter.

I consider this closed from my point of view, so please ask an admin to intervene if you have anything further. Your infraction and your ban were both warranted, and that's about all I can say for it.

stepbar

The only reason I'm here is because of post 4. Once again you miss the point. I got banned... Boo hoo... I'll get over it... Anyhow did you even review the posts?

Anyhow you won't see sence so I guess an Admin will have to review.

jor el

stepbar wrote: »

The only reason I'm here is because of post 4. Once again you miss the point. I got banned... Boo hoo... I'll get over it... Anyhow did you even review the posts?

Post 4 is my post, which came in response to you being here, so I don't see how that is why you are here. Yes, I did review the posts, and I believe that because you are not disputing either the infraction or ban, that this is not now for the dispute resolution process. If I'm wrong in that, please state exactly what you are disputing, and stop with the vague references to something that you think I don't get.

Your dispute has changed to from that of the severity of an infraction to something else, so please clarify what exactly you want.

bonkey

stepbar wrote: »

I guess an Admin will have to review.

Sorry about the delay. I'll take a look at this.

bonkey

Again...sorry about the delay. Christmas & family n stuff...

Anyway...

I don't see anything to suggest that the moderator acted unreasonably or unfairly. Indeed, in your first post, you say yourself that you had no issue with the infraction.

The ban, I also don't find unreasonable. You had an infraction. There was an on-thread warning, and you acted inappropriately.

I accept you didn't see the warning, and that you feel you were being goaded/insulted, but neither of those are excuses for inappropriate behaviour. After all, the people who you felt were insulting you presumably also feel justified in saying what they said, based on their experiences.

As for pointing out a similar situation in a different forum...yes, there are similarities, I agree. In a perfect world, we would perhaps see moderation which was entirely consistent, irrespective of the forum, the individual, or the moderator. On the other hand...in a perfect world, we wouldn't need moderation in the first place.

In either case, I don't see that someone else getting a yellow elsewhere is a valid argument to say that you were unfairly handled.

All that said....I would point out that if you feel there is a case to be made that moderators are allowing too much leeway in people expressing their anger regarding the banks and the current financial situation, then please make that case in the appropriate location (either to the moderators, in-forum if there is an appropriate feedback thread, or in the Helpdesk).

stepbar

I don't see how you can justify anyone calling me a disgrace or a wanker. I responded in kind and was banned. The other poster received no warning or ban. I accept my behaviour was not the best however I won't stand by and wait for a mod to sort it out. I'm entitled to defend my good name.

bonkey

OK, lets look at this in detail..

You and thelongfellow seem to have a disagreement right from the start...but it goes beyond unfriendly and into insulting at this point when you tell him to Go pick yourself up a Darwin award - an award for "those who improve the species...by accidentally removing themselves from it!"

While I doubt you were actually saying "go and accidentally kill yourself in a manner suitable to earn a Darwin award", I can see no interpretation of that comment which makes it anything but a direct, personal insult.

thelongfellow responds in kind here - the post that you were so outraged by.

In post 99, a moderator (BuffyBot) steps in and tells everyone to "drop the personal attacks", and clearly states that "Infractions/bans will be handed out if you can't keep it civil and to the point."

So, at this point, you and thelongfellow have traded insults, and a mod has both pointed out that this behaviour is unacceptable and warned of consequences if it continues.

After this warning, you responded to the P45 post, calling thelongfellow a clown (I can't link to this as it has been deleted). This post led to this thread.

So...lets review.

I don't see how you can justify anyone calling me a disgrace or a wanker.

No-one on that thread called you or anyone else a wanker. I've searched the thread, and checked the deleted post, and that word wasn't used.

Additionally, I'm not justifying anyone calling you anything...any more then I'm justifying you telling thelongfellow to pick up a Darwin award.

You traded insults. The mod joined the thread and told you both (and anyone else misbehaving) this wasn't acceptable. I agree with the mod - its not acceptable.

I responded in kind and was banned. The other poster received no warning or ban.

You continued in kind....you had already been throwing insults around and basically ignored the warning and continued where you had left off.

You both misbehaved. You both told to stop and were warned what would happen if you didn't. You didn't stop.

I accept my behaviour was not the best however I won't stand by and wait for a mod to sort it out. I'm entitled to defend my good name.

A mod had sorted it out...right there on post 99. He told both of you that your behaviour was not to continue.

I would also point out that while you're entitled to defend your good name, there's a defined way of doing it....which isn't deciding to take things into your own hands.

You're entitled to report their post, and let a mod sort it out. If you're not happy how the mod has sorted it out, there's a set of options which you're entitled to follow.

Ignoring on-thread moderator instructions (and the charter, and the site guidelines) is not an entitlement, nor is it any sort of acceptable justification.