International students in Ireland

Bloody_Mary

I this that this is highly relevant for many international students or future international students in Ireland and the UK...!



Quality of Universities in the UK and Ireland: Rethinking Third Level Education in the UK and Ireland


UK and Irish third level education systems attract many international students every year. Despite high fees for international students, many still chose to study in the UK or Ireland. It is the quality of education provided and job prospects after acquiring degree that seem to be the magnet for international students who annually bring millions of pounds/euro to UK and Irish Universities.


While it is true to note that generally UK and Irish Universities provide quality education, the issue of whether these institutions offer genuinely good value for money remains a daunting question.


Many international students decide to endure high fees in order to receive third level education which will theoretically allow them to earn decent wages in the aftermath of completing their education in the UK or Ireland.


Receiving third level education in their country is much less costly, but perspective students notice that their colleagues who have graduated at home are ofetn low wage earners and as a result they seek to acquire the same skills as their peers in the UK and Ireland and qualify for a better life standard.


Majority of international students in the UK and Ireland come from countries where an average income for skilled labour is much lower than in Europe and with exceptions to the US students, paying for education in the UK or Ireland only makes good investment if students can seek employment in Europe, not their home country. For instance, an international student who studies business studies in the UK or Ireland will pay on average 40.000EURO in fees only plus the same amount for the expenses of living. The total bill is around 80.000EURO for an undergraduate degree excluding the opportunity cost. If this student is to return to his/her home country, they are probably looking at an annual gross income of 5.000-7.000, i.e. an income that they can earn anyway without going to the prestigious UK or Irish Universities.


Many international students fall prey to skyrocketing fees thinking that they will be able to take up employment in Europe once they hold BA or MA degree from the UK or Ireland. This may be true for medicine, science and software students where fees are much higher than for humanities and business degree. In the aforementioned fields fees range from 15.000-30.000EURO annually and only truly well-off students can afford to pay them.


Those unfortunate international students who have chosen a degree in business, law, politics, economics and other humanities disciplines face a rather grim reality. The fact is that none will apply for a work permit for them, not in the UK or Ireland, nor in the mainland Europe.


Mainland Europe already has an oversupply of its own humanities graduates, while in the UK and Ireland notorious work permit procedures pre-empt employers from taking onboard international graduates. There may be graduate schemes in place whereby an international student is permitted to remain and work in the country for six months after graduating and seek employment, but graduates still have to comply with same procedures as other non-EU citizens seeking access to labour market. For example in Ireland, the wage must be at least 30.000EURO annually (many Irish humanities students settle for wage of 25.000EURO annually), the cost of a work permit is 1.500EURO and apart from the “red tape” there is an eight week test period where relevant State agencies ensure that work permit can only be issued if no Irish and/or EU citizens have the same skills to take up the employment. In addition, the work permits cannot be issued for secretarial and administrative work which is often a back door to building a career in many companies. So the door is closed before its even open and a chance that an international humanities or business student will be in a position to successfully gain return on its investment is bleak.


Furthermore, once the students have lost contact with the labour market in their home countries, which comes as an inevitable consequence of studying abroad for four years, students also lose out on building networks and understanding the needs home labour market to which they must return.


Finally, this article should by no means discourage students to study abroad, but only encourage them to rethink what their money is buying them. International students who are fortunate enough to get funding and scholarships should not hesitate to embark on studies in the UK and Ireland, but evidences suggest that the idea that UK and Irish education is highly valued by European employers is at odds with the reality.

cleakoms

Thanks for this article , i was thinking about this as well lately. Most people especially from Africa are ill informed about the opportunities present abroad. Most of the students who studied here in Uk with a good Bachelors or Masters degree end up with menial jobs. This is as a result of the climate of the Uk labour market which restricts employers from sponsoring foreign students work permit and also saturated with too many foreigners from Asia and Africa.

To be candid, investing in Education in the UK is not worth it unless you can afford to go to universities like cambridge, oxford, imperial, UCL , warwick and the likes. Now in the Uk, there is direct discrimination as to what school you got your degree from despite studying in the Uk. I have seen job adverts calling only students from the top 10 universities on recruitment sites or schools that are part of the Russel group or red brick universities. Many Africans are not aware of this , they feel as long as you earn a degree in the Uk, then it automatically opens doors to opportunites both home and abroad, This is totally not the case.

I Think the reverse is the case for countries like Canada, Australia and America especially canada. These are big countries with unlimited opportunities for Minorities. Most of my friends who schooled in these countries work for companies like accenture, ernst $ young. mckinsey, Microsoft, Google and the rest. But here in Europe you may need to attend the top ranked universities and undergo 8 stages of rigorous interviews and assessments to work these organisations.

I am just begining to realise that the UK opened her doors to foreign students in order to fund its universities and that's why you will never get a scholarship no matter how brilliant you are in a Uk university. This is not true in North America where talent is valued and given the necessary resources to flourish. Infact, there are so many universities in Uk that get only 40 million pounds for research from the government compared to other Uk universities mentioned earlier on that get about 800 million pounds for research each. This wide gap in funding is responsible for the introduction of irrelevant courses by the lowerly ranked UK universities in order to stay afloat.Imagine a Bsc in web development, games development, fashion, networking with oracle etc. This are just training courses that should be done after earning degrees in computer science, software engineering etc.

I can go on and on but i may have to stop here due to time factor.Students should really think about the following variables before embarking on the journey to studying abroad

1. What is the prospect of international students in the country after graduation

2. The ease of getting a work permit without needing an employer to sponsor

3. The ease of getting leave to remain (permanent residence) incase they choose to live and work permanently or for a while

4. The Quality of the Institution and the course of study

5. Th opportunities available to minorities in the country

6. Living expenses and whether part-time job which can also count as exprience is available to offset the costs of studying

The fact is most of their citizens here get into the labour market with only the A'Level Grades.

Lastly, Uk companies now ask for UCAS points during recruiment. UCAS point is the summation of some of your A'level scores and Most foreigners from africa don't normally have A'levels as there are foundation and access programmes into various universities. Without UCAS point, it is almost impossible to get recruited by most of the companies in UK. I think it's another trick by the UK government to get foreigner to pay over 50,000 pounds to study and render them unemployable at the end. Why should your A'level result hinder you from getting a Job after obtaining a first class honours in a Bachelors degree or A distinction in masters from a UK university?.I wonder ooooooooo..


Please, ignore the errors in this article because it was written on the fly without proofreading.Thanks

Bloody_Mary

cleakoms wrote: »

Thanks for this article , i was thinking about this as well lately. Most people especially from Africa are ill informed about the opportunities present abroad. Most of the students who studied here in Uk with a good Bachelors or Masters degree end up with menial jobs. This is as a result of the climate of the Uk labour market which restricts employers from sponsoring foreign students work permit and also saturated with too many foreigners from Asia and Africa.

To be candid, investing in Education in the UK is not worth it unless you can afford to go to universities like cambridge, oxford, imperial, UCL , warwick and the likes. Now in the Uk, there is direct discrimination as to what school you got your degree from despite studying in the Uk. I have seen job adverts calling only students from the top 10 universities on recruitment sites or schools that are part of the Russel group or red brick universities. Many Africans are not aware of this , they feel as long as you earn a degree in the Uk, then it automatically opens doors to opportunites both home and abroad, This is totally not the case.

I Think the reverse is the case for countries like Canada, Australia and America especially canada. These are big countries with unlimited opportunities for Minorities. Most of my friends who schooled in these countries work for companies like accenture, ernst $ young. mckinsey, Microsoft, Google and the rest. But here in Europe you may need to attend the top ranked universities and undergo 8 stages of rigorous interviews and assessments to work these organisations.

I am just begining to realise that the UK opened her doors to foreign students in order to fund its universities and that's why you will never get a scholarship no matter how brilliant you are in a Uk university. This is not true in North America where talent is valued and given the necessary resources to flourish. Infact, there are so many universities in Uk that get only 40 million pounds for research from the government compared to other Uk universities mentioned earlier on that get about 800 million pounds for research each. This wide gap in funding is responsible for the introduction of irrelevant courses by the lowerly ranked UK universities in order to stay afloat.Imagine a Bsc in web development, games development, fashion, networking with oracle etc. This are just training courses that should be done after earning degrees in computer science, software engineering etc.

I can go on and on but i may have to stop here due to time factor.Students should really think about the following variables before embarking on the journey to studying abroad

1. What is the prospect of international students in the country after graduation

2. The ease of getting a work permit without needing an employer to sponsor

3. The ease of getting leave to remain (permanent residence) incase they choose to live and work permanently or for a while

4. The Quality of the Institution and the course of study

5. Th opportunities available to minorities in the country

6. Living expenses and whether part-time job which can also count as exprience is available to offset the costs of studying

The fact is most of their citizens here get into the labour market with only the A'Level Grades.

Lastly, Uk companies now ask for UCAS points during recruiment. UCAS point is the summation of some of your A'level scores and Most foreigners from africa don't normally have A'levels as there are foundation and access programmes into various universities. Without UCAS point, it is almost impossible to get recruited by most of the companies in UK. I think it's another trick by the UK government to get foreigner to pay over 50,000 pounds to study and render them unemployable at the end. Why should your A'level result hinder you from getting a Job after obtaining a first class honours in a Bachelors degree or A distinction in masters from a UK university?.I wonder ooooooooo..


Please, ignore the errors in this article because it was written on the fly without proofreading.Thanks

Hi,


Thank you for your answer. I am discovering that I am not alone in this, but that this topic is not well discussed and understood by potential international students. After paying big amounts of cash to study in Ireland, losing 5 years of my life (working rubbish jobs to be able to pay rent, food and fees and thus not feeling that I am alive), getting honours BA and MA degree, I realise that I am completely unemployable and that no one will apply for a work permit for me, even when I agree to pay for it and do all the necessary paper work... Unfortunately, I cannot use my degree as a toilet paper (to hard) and it is no good for anything else.


The amount of CVs and cover letters sent is simply colossal.


However, I would like to spread the information about the real value of Irish and UK Universities to students in Asia and Africa, as I would honestly like to help any perspective international students to avoid this morbid misery they end up when the studies are finished.


What would be the best way of spreading information on this issue to perspective students thinking of studying in Ireland or the UK?

neil1988

I totally agree with what you have said about the current Irish job opportunities for international students.

I have a strong CV, I got a honours masters degree in IT. I used to be a tutor in DCU for 8 months. I have worked in microsoft as an intern. I currently work in an Irish company only paying me 1000 euro a month! 1000 euro for a honours masters degree?! Only because I'm non-EU. I have extremely strong promgramming skills and in DCU they pay me 30/h as a tutor and another part-time job they pay me 45/h. But I still cannot find a company who wish to apply a work permit or green card for me. They just want to hire EU citizens.

I'm trying to find a company who wish to apply a work permit for me. And I agree to pay the expense and do all the paper work. But I cannot. I've been to a lot of interviews with many many companies, I always pass the technical test and when we go through my requirement for work permit or green card, they just refuse me.

Recently I've been trying to get the position in Murex which is a fairly large international company. Again I passed all their technical test and again when we talked about my visa in the 4th round of interview I'm refused.

I believe I can speak for all the elite international students. It's just impossible for us to find a graduate job here in Ireland now. This will only cause one result, soon there will be no elite foreign student coming to Ireland. Only those coming here to attend language schools.

Only because the current Irish economy is in trouble that the Irish government make these awful limitations for non-EU graduates to find a job. So elite foreign scientists and software engineers are keeping on leaving Ireland while no more is coming to join its industry. And in the long run this will definetly hurt the Irish economy, especially the Hi-Tech industry as you can see only rare Irish students enjoy math and in-depth software logic.

neil1988

Another thing, if I still cannot find a work permit with 30K annual salary, I will return back to my country, it's meaningless for me to be here with 1000 euro a month. Some of my friends have returned home, and get 20,000 euro annual salary (not including bonus) as a graduate with a much much lower living expense.

Bloody_Mary

neil1988 wrote: »

Another thing, if I still cannot find a work permit with 30K annual salary, I will return back to my country, it's meaningless for me to be here with 1000 euro a month. Some of my friends have returned home, and get 20,000 euro annual salary (not including bonus) as a graduate with a much much lower living expense.

Hmm... I would have thought that IT graduate students had better chance of getting work permits than humanities graduates.

It is a bit bitter to witness how foreigners are welcome to Ireland so long as they keep cleaning Irish toilets and working in shops. The moment they try to overcome this position they end up with a mountain of obstacles.

Personally, I have helped many people from India and Bangladesh, when they were re-applying for their work-permits or applying for their spouses to come to Ireland. All of those people could not read nor write, they work in restaurants on minimum wage as kitchen-porters or chefs. And yes, all of them were granted renewal of work-permits and work-permits for their spouses doing similar jobs.

The moment you try to climb the ladder as a foreigner, you will more certainly feel that you are not welcome anymore.

I think that Irish education system has become somewhat of a scam, it is overcharged, degrees are not nearly as valuable and possibilities of getting a work-permit are zero.

I have also attended few interviews and everything goes well, they smile, show me around the place, I do the tests well and they ask me if I need help moving to Dublin. However, when they hear that I need a work permit (although I offer to pay for it and do all the paper work), their faces turn pale and they tell me that they will contact me soon.

This never happens, not even a PFO, I just see the same post advertised again in few days.

These are also all large companies, multinationals who need my language skills. If it is not a big problem for a small restaurant in rural Ireland to apply for a work permit for its kitchen porter, I don't understand how it can be such a big deal for these big firms. So how valuable are our degrees in reality?


At least there is some hope for you, you can get nice employment in your home country. In my home country, Irish degrees are not acknowledged and employers are reluctant to recruit people who have spent to long time in another country (in this case over six years).


At the end, I have wasted over 50.000EURO, six years of my life for a degree that is utterly worthless and would have probably been better off should I paid some 10.000EURO for a marriage of convenience and claimed social welfare in Ireland in conjunction to working...


Thus, I shall write a letters to all ministries (media groups as well) in countries which supply international students to Ireland and explain what a scam money making machine Irish third level education is. Hopefully, this will reduce the number of international students in Ireland and encourage perspective international students to consider value for money education.

neil1988

Bloody_Mary wrote: »

Thus, I shall write a letters to all ministries (media groups as well) in countries which supply international students to Ireland and explain what a scam money making machine Irish third level education is. Hopefully, this will reduce the number of international students in Ireland and encourage perspective international students to consider value for money education.

Do it man. I will be your backup.

And another ugly thing about Ireland is the GNIB visa system. If you go to universities of UK and US, you'll have a four year multiple re-entry student visa. But here in Ireland, in order to get the money of our foreign students as much as possible, they only give foreign students a one year single visa for 150, in order to go home you need to add a one year re-entry for another 100, so each year you spend 250 euro just for your visa! In order to get a degree, you need to pay at least 1000 euro just for your visa! And when you graduate, if you want to find a job, you need a six month mutiple graduate visa for another 250! How ridiculous it is! I cannot find any other country in this world which is shameless enough to do this.

Bloody_Mary

neil1988 wrote: »

Do it man. I will be your backup.

And another ugly thing about Ireland is the GNIB visa system. If you go to universities of UK and US, you'll have a four year multiple re-entry student visa. But here in Ireland, in order to get the money of our foreign students as much as possible, they only give foreign students a one year single visa for 150, in order to go home you need to add a one year re-entry for another 100, so each year you spend 250 euro just for your visa! In order to get a degree, you need to pay at least 1000 euro just for your visa! And when you graduate, if you want to find a job, you need a six month mutiple graduate visa for another 250! How ridiculous it is! I cannot find any other country in this world which is shameless enough to do this.

I have sent the article to many Ministries of Education in non-EU countries and to several media groups. I hope that it will draw the attention of media groups in China, India, Brazil, Pakistan etc.


Unemployed for last six months, just received a PFO today telling me that my profile fully matches their needs, that I left an excellent impression, but they need someone who will start full-time immediately and therefore cannot wait for the work-permit procedure.


After having spent last 150,00€ on attending the interview and having a balance of 0 €, no job, no social welfare, I guess I can strart a new career and just hit the streets. Wow, I’ll be highly skilled escort and can show my degree to clients.


Never knew that it will be so painful, all the lies that they have told us during the education, how successful we will be....
And getting the distinctive First Class Honours degree really did make me feel that I can be someone...

neil1988

Bloody_Mary wrote: »

Unemployed for last six months, just received a PFO today telling me that my profile fully matches their needs, that I left an excellent impression, but they need someone who will start full-time immediately and therefore cannot wait for the work-permit procedure.


After having spent last 150,00€ on attending the interview and having a balance of 0 €, no job, no social welfare, I guess I can strart a new career and just hit the streets. Wow, I’ll be highly skilled escort and can show my degree to clients.


Never knew that it will be so painful, all the lies that they have told us during the education, how successful we will be....
And getting the distinctive First Class Honours degree really did make me feel that I can be someone...

Man, Ireland is just an amazing bubble for international students. I still remember the beautiful future DCU staff told me before I came to Ireland. I also spent a lot of money on interviews just like you. Say for last company murex, I spent 300 euro for 4 interviews.

I have travelled all around Ireland for interviews, including cork, whole dublin, monaghan, wicklow, bray, galway, etc. And look at these reasons why they rejected me when I passed over 20 selection processes.

"The difficulty I am faced with is that the Irish Government has a rule that 50% of a company's employees must be EU citizens. Unfortunately, we have reached the 50% non EU citizen employee quota so it leaves us with no option at the moment. Should the law of the land change I shall be in touch."

" We have had two Green Card applications for employees rejected recently. "

"May I ask you a question? What type of work permit do you currently possess for Ireland? We are in the unfortunate position that we require Developers who can commence work immediately. "

"We have looked at the situation and it really is extremely difficult for us to obtain a work permit for Non-EU country people - it is almost impossible at this time, unless the position we have vacant cannot be filled by any local or EU applicants and is so unique and special in terms of skills and experience."

"As you're a graduate and have no working experience, it would be extremely unlikely you would be granted a work permit and we have decided, therefore, not to pursue your application any further."

......

I believe I have contributed over 1500 euro to Irish buses, coaches, trains and taxies for attending interviews.

neil1988

Again and again I'm hurt by those ridiculous excuses. As a graduate I'm strong enough to deserve a job if the work permit is not so hard to get (30k salary as a graduate & national newspaper 6 days ads & local newspaper 6 days ads & two months FAS network ads & huge paper work & at least two months to process your application & 1000Euro work permit application fee & when you get the work permit you need to leave the country first & then use the work permit to get proper visa from Irish embassies & return back to Ireland & register in GNIB to get your GNIB card & congratulations you can fianlly commence work!).

That's why so many companys are afraid to hire non-EU graduates also they are fully qualified.

another thing, any idea who is happy to pay 30K for a graduate? Microsoft pay 30K, accenture pay 31K...

andrewire

Bloody_Mary wrote: »

Hmm... I would have thought that IT graduate students had better chance of getting work permits than humanities graduates.

It is a bit bitter to witness how foreigners are welcome to Ireland so long as they keep cleaning Irish toilets and working in shops. The moment they try to overcome this position they end up with a mountain of obstacles.

Personally, I have helped many people from India and Bangladesh, when they were re-applying for their work-permits or applying for their spouses to come to Ireland. All of those people could not read nor write, they work in restaurants on minimum wage as kitchen-porters or chefs. And yes, all of them were granted renewal of work-permits and work-permits for their spouses doing similar jobs.

The moment you try to climb the ladder as a foreigner, you will more certainly feel that you are not welcome anymore.

I think that Irish education system has become somewhat of a scam, it is overcharged, degrees are not nearly as valuable and possibilities of getting a work-permit are zero.

I have also attended few interviews and everything goes well, they smile, show me around the place, I do the tests well and they ask me if I need help moving to Dublin. However, when they hear that I need a work permit (although I offer to pay for it and do all the paper work), their faces turn pale and they tell me that they will contact me soon.

This never happens, not even a PFO, I just see the same post advertised again in few days.

These are also all large companies, multinationals who need my language skills. If it is not a big problem for a small restaurant in rural Ireland to apply for a work permit for its kitchen porter, I don't understand how it can be such a big deal for these big firms. So how valuable are our degrees in reality?


At least there is some hope for you, you can get nice employment in your home country. In my home country, Irish degrees are not acknowledged and employers are reluctant to recruit people who have spent to long time in another country (in this case over six years).


At the end, I have wasted over 50.000EURO, six years of my life for a degree that is utterly worthless and would have probably been better off should I paid some 10.000EURO for a marriage of convenience and claimed social welfare in Ireland in conjunction to working...


Thus, I shall write a letters to all ministries (media groups as well) in countries which supply international students to Ireland and explain what a scam money making machine Irish third level education is. Hopefully, this will reduce the number of international students in Ireland and encourage perspective international students to consider value for money education.

The main problem is that when you come to Ireland to study at college, you're supposed to leave the country after you're finished. There's the graduate scheme that allows you to stay for 12 months so that you can find a job that would allow you apply for a green card or work-permit.

Some succeed at this, others don't. Unfortunately, you're in the latter group. However, I don't think you should blame Ireland for your failure at not being employable. It's unreasonable. Not every international student can get a work-permit simply because most companies prefer to hire someone that is ready to work without the hassle of visa applications.

If Irish university degrees are not recognised in your country, you should have done some research before embarking on your adventure. This isn't Ireland's fault; it might be an issue in your home country and their legislation. Why don't you write to all your ministers and ask them to recognise Irish degrees instead of bad-mouthing Irish education?

andrewire

neil1988 wrote: »

Do it man. I will be your backup.

And another ugly thing about Ireland is the GNIB visa system. If you go to universities of UK and US, you'll have a four year multiple re-entry student visa. But here in Ireland, in order to get the money of our foreign students as much as possible, they only give foreign students a one year single visa for 150, in order to go home you need to add a one year re-entry for another 100, so each year you spend 250 euro just for your visa! In order to get a degree, you need to pay at least 1000 euro just for your visa! And when you graduate, if you want to find a job, you need a six month mutiple graduate visa for another 250! How ridiculous it is! I cannot find any other country in this world which is shameless enough to do this.

As far as I'm aware you can't even take up a part-time job in the UK or the US with a student visa. Here, you can. And, only certain nationalities require the 'multiple entry' visa. Other non-EU countries do not.

ChristopherUno

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2011/0402/1224293625684.html

This issue was brought up in the Irish Times recently too, link above. It's truly a shame to hear such stories of young, hardworking and high achieving students not getting the opportunities they deserve. I personally know a few people from Belarus, the Philippines etc. who are great students but have to pay full fees and are struggling through college. If we're to recover from the present hardship harnessing these people's potential rather than spurning it is the way to go.

seraphimvc

put it in a simplest way, just leave ireland. all of my internatinal friends in ireland or uk left since the economy went downhill.

and boy, dont blame ireland. it is the same EVERYWHERE now in any EU countries. you maybe actually lucky that you are in ireland because the competition may not be that strong over here.

neelslog

andrewire wrote: »

The main problem is that when you come to Ireland to study at college, you're supposed to leave the country after you're finished. There's the graduate scheme that allows you to stay for 12 months so that you can find a job that would allow you apply for a green card or work-permit.

Some succeed at this, others don't. Unfortunately, you're in the latter group. However, I don't think you should blame Ireland for your failure at not being employable. It's unreasonable. Not every international student can get a work-permit simply because most companies prefer to hire someone that is ready to work without the hassle of visa applications.

If Irish university degrees are not recognised in your country, you should have done some research before embarking on your adventure. This isn't Ireland's fault; it might be an issue in your home country and their legislation. Why don't you write to all your ministers and ask them to recognise Irish degrees instead of bad-mouthing Irish education?

Hi,

I came to ireland as a student back in 2001. I was a qualified accountant from india and i was 21 years old. Only 5% of accounting student can get fully qualified below 25 and any qualified accountant knows that. So i wasn't an average student :-).

I came to DBS and i registered and paid full fee and got admission. But DBS refused to accept me as MBA student the reason they said i am a late arrival and its been started a week before. Big cheating 90% of students agreed and registered from ICM diploma course only reason they cant get bankaccount/mobile/house live/job until they register as student.

I refused to register for diploma and fought for a while and i got 50% fee back and end up paying for 12 subjects of ACCA upfront just to register as full time student. They didn't advice me as i can register as a trainee accountant student.(They cheated me).

This is 2002 :-). Then i got a job as an accountant student working 40 hours for 150 pound a week.

2003 i started working as management accountant for a big importer.

2004 i started graphic designing company and a training school but irish immigration guys refused to accept student since i am involved. So i left that business lost 20K from home.

2005 i started liking software so i went UCD to MSc and i did it paid 10K. But there is no graduate visa so i ended up as a student and there is no company to hire me.

2006 i started my own software company with help of one of my irish friend and i make his living and my living for 2 years.

2007 i went back to collage DCU and did another MSc just because i need a student visa :-) paid 14K and continue making money for living by paying my irish friend salary just to be a director :-)

2010 my software company got bit funds and hired more people and applied my green card. Finally i got it :-) happy ending.

Now i have 8 programmers and 5 designer and 3 marketing and 2 admin people working for me.

I dont know all i did is constant fighting to keep my visa. If not i may not be doing this :-)

If you want to judge international student and how good/bad they are to irish economy judge based on my true story.

If any international student want to study in ireland be ready for battle for life and visa. If you think you can survive without finding job are you think you can create job on your own your welcome. :-)

I dont think ireland is bad or good. If you have a capacity to do something you can do always no body stops you.

Its just sad if they provide easy way to convert visa from student to work i swear i would be having a team of 100 developer by now. Now i need 3 more years :-)

Thanks

asian-monkey

andrewire wrote: »

As far as I'm aware you can't even take up a part-time job in the UK or the US with a student visa. Here, you can. And, only certain nationalities require the 'multiple entry' visa. Other non-EU countries do not.

You are so wrong with this. UK and US allows more hours then in Ireland. Ireland only allowed part-time jobs for students after around 2002.

Also, about your previous post.

I am a qualified software designer. I came to Ireland to further my studes and knowledge and if possible get hired. Now, let me tell you something. The reason why other countires does not recognize Degreed earned in Ireland is because of the Ranking of Irish Uni and College. Please do a google search. I didn't, I just wanted to go somewhere unique and Ireland as a country had all the qualities i was looking for. I value students more then instituations.

Here in Ireland since 2005, new law requires me to leave Ireland by this year. (not allowed to stay more than 7 yrs as student). But my 7 years is all full-time professional studies. And i need 1 more year to complete it. Hope the people at Immigration won't give me hassle. 7 yrs, been there atleast 7 times, feels hell. Everyone looking at you as if I am in Ireland to steal their money. No recognization to real students.

All in all, i'll take back good bits and leave the rest behind. I am a software dev. now and have a Web Apps store for Rich Internet Applications. Opened that in a despo move to keep myself aflot. Was tuff..

But surely, all this experience has killed the innocence in me. Life is not a fairy tale but sure doesn't have to be a hell house either.

Have fun.. life goes on..

mounam

Hi,
Am a graduate from india. I want to persue my Ms Program In any foreign country. Overseas Consultancies are suggesting me to take the admission in Ireland as well they are telling that i can get 3 years work permit easily. Even they are promising me the scholarship. How far i can trust them.... Is ireland good For masters in IT??

After reading your posts, should i opt for another countries like Australia or Newzealand?? I'm purely looking forward for my life settlement, not for life long struggle.. As i'm not strong enough to face the financial problems rather than the Fees nd living expenses. I cant decide which is the best country.

I would appreciate if some one suggest me to end up this confusion.

mohammad.man

neil1988 wrote: »

I totally agree with what you have said about the current Irish job opportunities for international students.

I have a strong CV, I got a honours masters degree in IT. I used to be a tutor in DCU for 8 months. I have worked in microsoft as an intern. I currently work in an Irish company only paying me 1000 euro a month! 1000 euro for a honours masters degree?! Only because I'm non-EU. I have extremely strong promgramming skills and in DCU they pay me 30/h as a tutor and another part-time job they pay me 45/h. But I still cannot find a company who wish to apply a work permit or green card for me. They just want to hire EU citizens.

I'm trying to find a company who wish to apply a work permit for me. And I agree to pay the expense and do all the paper work. But I cannot. I've been to a lot of interviews with many many companies, I always pass the technical test and when we go through my requirement for work permit or green card, they just refuse me.

Recently I've been trying to get the position in Murex which is a fairly large international company. Again I passed all their technical test and again when we talked about my visa in the 4th round of interview I'm refused.

I believe I can speak for all the elite international students. It's just impossible for us to find a graduate job here in Ireland now. This will only cause one result, soon there will be no elite foreign student coming to Ireland. Only those coming here to attend language schools.

Only because the current Irish economy is in trouble that the Irish government make these awful limitations for non-EU graduates to find a job. So elite foreign scientists and software engineers are keeping on leaving Ireland while no more is coming to join its industry. And in the long run this will definetly hurt the Irish economy, especially the Hi-Tech industry as you can see only rare Irish students enjoy math and in-depth software logic.

I am not qualified as yours. I just have a good Honours degree (Best result in my class) from a recognize Institute of Technology in IT/Networking/Administration/Support, applied many jobs but with no luck. Many companies refused me straight way just for visa as they are not wish to apply work permit/Green card for me. It seems apply a work permit is a taboo (sorry if I use the wrong word) for companies. Not only that I even refused for free work experience/Intern.. Depressed but hopeful something will come up whether it is in Ireland or outside. It's toughest time for International student to get a job .

RadioClash

neelslog wrote: »

Hi,

I came to ireland as a student back in 2001. I was a qualified accountant from india and i was 21 years old. Only 5% of accounting student can get fully qualified below 25 and any qualified accountant knows that. So i wasn't an average student :-).

I came to DBS and i registered and paid full fee and got admission. But DBS refused to accept me as MBA student the reason they said i am a late arrival and its been started a week before. Big cheating 90% of students agreed and registered from ICM diploma course only reason they cant get bankaccount/mobile/house live/job until they register as student.

I refused to register for diploma and fought for a while and i got 50% fee back and end up paying for 12 subjects of ACCA upfront just to register as full time student. They didn't advice me as i can register as a trainee accountant student.(They cheated me).

This is 2002 :-). Then i got a job as an accountant student working 40 hours for 150 pound a week.

2003 i started working as management accountant for a big importer.

2004 i started graphic designing company and a training school but irish immigration guys refused to accept student since i am involved. So i left that business lost 20K from home.

2005 i started liking software so i went UCD to MSc and i did it paid 10K. But there is no graduate visa so i ended up as a student and there is no company to hire me.

2006 i started my own software company with help of one of my irish friend and i make his living and my living for 2 years.

2007 i went back to collage DCU and did another MSc just because i need a student visa :-) paid 14K and continue making money for living by paying my irish friend salary just to be a director :-)

2010 my software company got bit funds and hired more people and applied my green card. Finally i got it :-) happy ending.

Now i have 8 programmers and 5 designer and 3 marketing and 2 admin people working for me.

I dont know all i did is constant fighting to keep my visa. If not i may not be doing this :-)

If you want to judge international student and how good/bad they are to irish economy judge based on my true story.

If any international student want to study in ireland be ready for battle for life and visa. If you think you can survive without finding job are you think you can create job on your own your welcome. :-)

I dont think ireland is bad or good. If you have a capacity to do something you can do always no body stops you.

Its just sad if they provide easy way to convert visa from student to work i swear i would be having a team of 100 developer by now. Now i need 3 more years :-)

Thanks

You sound like an incredibly hard working and industrious guy. I think it's a shame the Irish immigration system can't see this, and give people like you permanent residency. Hope things work out for you here, because Ireland actually needs you more than you need Ireland.

Haque_light

neelslog wrote: »

Hi,

I came to ireland as a student back in 2001. I was a qualified accountant from india and i was 21 years old. Only 5% of accounting student can get fully qualified below 25 and any qualified accountant knows that. So i wasn't an average student :-).

I came to DBS and i registered and paid full fee and got admission. But DBS refused to accept me as MBA student the reason they said i am a late arrival and its been started a week before. Big cheating 90% of students agreed and registered from ICM diploma course only reason they cant get bankaccount/mobile/house live/job until they register as student.

I refused to register for diploma and fought for a while and i got 50% fee back and end up paying for 12 subjects of ACCA upfront just to register as full time student. They didn't advice me as i can register as a trainee accountant student.(They cheated me).

This is 2002 :-). Then i got a job as an accountant student working 40 hours for 150 pound a week.

2003 i started working as management accountant for a big importer.

2004 i started graphic designing company and a training school but irish immigration guys refused to accept student since i am involved. So i left that business lost 20K from home.

2005 i started liking software so i went UCD to MSc and i did it paid 10K. But there is no graduate visa so i ended up as a student and there is no company to hire me.

2006 i started my own software company with help of one of my irish friend and i make his living and my living for 2 years.

2007 i went back to collage DCU and did another MSc just because i need a student visa :-) paid 14K and continue making money for living by paying my irish friend salary just to be a director :-)

2010 my software company got bit funds and hired more people and applied my green card. Finally i got it :-) happy ending.

Now i have 8 programmers and 5 designer and 3 marketing and 2 admin people working for me.

I dont know all i did is constant fighting to keep my visa. If not i may not be doing this :-)

If you want to judge international student and how good/bad they are to irish economy judge based on my true story.

If any international student want to study in ireland be ready for battle for life and visa. If you think you can survive without finding job are you think you can create job on your own your welcome. :-)

I dont think ireland is bad or good. If you have a capacity to do something you can do always no body stops you.

Its just sad if they provide easy way to convert visa from student to work i swear i would be having a team of 100 developer by now. Now i need 3 more years :-)

Thanks

Hi,

Was wondering, what was steps you followed for your start-up. It would be great help if you could write on that. I was thinking to start a bsuiness as well.

Thanks.

bricon

Hi

I am a student at Griffith College in Dublin and I am doing a dissertation on the perceptions of higher level education in Ireland among foreign students, mainly Chinese and Indians.

I am trying to collect as many responses to the attached questionnaire as possible and I NEED YOUR HELP URGENTLY! Please fill out and/or forward to other students. It should only take a couple of minutes.



















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