Bike Fitting

fazer1

Anyone recommend a good bike fitting service, I have adjusted everything(one at a time and only small increments) and am still having knee problems!

SurferDude41

Lots of so called bike fitters out there,:(
Unless they have a speedplay pro fit-kit, you will be only wasting your money.
I had some knee issues, did some study on the bio-mechanics of cycling.
Was able to fix my knee problems by fitting longer axles to my speedplay pedals:)

Jawgap

Cycleways do a bike fitting service, BUT, they don't use video analysis.

http://www.cycleways.com/store/content/63/Bike-Fit/

I went to them mostly for reasons of convenience, although next year I'll probably have a proper, videoed session.

I found it quite good. I wasn't having any particular problems but Ash (the fitter) had a chat with me about my cycling and my ambitions. Then I was set to work on my bike on a turbo while he assessed and measured. I was put through various postures, speeds etc

After that, it was case of adjust-cycle-adjust-cycle etc until the set up was complete. I did notice a huge gain in comfort - it just felt a whole lot nicer afterwards.

I went for the second of the three options and the whole process took about 90 minutes.

paddymacsporran

Irish fit in Dun Laoghaire sorted me out - qualified physios and a good computer set up/video analysis.

Cost me €50 I think.

el tel

There was a free bike fitting event last night in Belfast. By all accounts it was excellent.

chakattack

If you have a turbo, digital camera with video, measuring tape, a helping hand to take measurements, a basic grasp of geometry and lots of patience you can do it yourself.

I've done alot of reading and tinkering over the last month and have arrived at a comfortable, powerful position and fixed some lower back and knee pain in the process.

Some good resources are:

Competitive cyclist fit calculator (to get ballpark)
Bikefit.com
Bikefitting.com
Bikedynamics (on youtube)

Aim for comfort over aerodynamics and trust your intuition about how it feels. Remember that you're not a pro-cyclist and your bike fit shouldn't look like theirs unless you're super flexible.

It's not rocket science, there are three contact points - saddle, pedals and bars and thus the three most important measurements to get right are saddle height, saddle to handlebar and the height between saddle and bars.

After that you can find tune your pedal stroke by making sure your cleats are setup properly, checking if your feet have varus/valgus tilt and if your legs are different lengths - both easily fixed with shims/insoles.

chakattack

SurferDude41 wrote: »

Lots of so called bike fitters out there,:(
Unless they have a speedplay pro fit-kit, you will be only wasting your money.
I had some knee issues, did some study on the bio-mechanics of cycling.
Was able to fix my knee problems by fitting longer axles to my speedplay pedals:)

Hi Surferdude,

Do you know what the scientific way to find the optimum pedal spacing is?

Was thinking about measuring my footsteps in the snow as a rough guide to matching my natural walking gait.

manwithaplan

paddymacsporran wrote: »

Irish fit in Dun Laoghaire sorted me out - qualified physios and a good computer set up/video analysis.

Cost me €50 I think.

Sorted me out too and thought they were good. Cost me €85ish though.

fazer1

Thanks for the advice guys, I think i'll try bikefitting.ie in bray. I wouldn't be confidant enough to try to set up myself as I think its a biomechanical problem. I'll keep ye posted on how I get on.

paddymacsporran

Sit on the kitchen worktop and let yer feet dangle free - you will see how they lie from that.

Don't be going for a fit with the pre-conceived idea you know what the problem is, you might be wrong!

SurferDude41

chakattack wrote: »

Hi Surferdude,

Do you know what the scientific way to find the optimum pedal spacing is?

Was thinking about measuring my footsteps in the snow as a rough guide to matching my natural walking gait.

The best way is to mount your bike, on a turbo trainer.
Setup your video camera on a tripod a few metres away, You should be facing the camera. When viewed from the front,
Your knees ankles and hips, should be in aligment. Knees should track straight up and down, and not trace a figure of 8.
Most pedals are designed for, skinny slender hipped guys. These pedals have a much too narrow Q-factor, for us bigger cyclists.
I used to suffer from iliotibial band friction syndrome, longer spindles on my speedplay pedals cured the problem entirely.

My advice is not to give any so called bike fitter money, who does not have video motion capture analysis, and a Speedplay Pro-fit case, with all the different length speedplay pedal spindles.

Perhaps I might start a bike fitting business myself. €700 for a proper speedplay pro-fit case, and with my knowledge of anatomy and physiology, and all those books I have read on the bio-mechanics of cycling.
If I ever find the time, I will do the job properly. I will not take money from people, and provide a lousy half arsed service.

Look for Paul Swift Bikefitting on U tube, simple as that:D

dave2pvd

SurferDude41 wrote: »

The best way is to mount your bike, on a turbo trainer.
Setup your video camera on a tripod a few metres away, You shpuld be facing the camera.

Your knees, ankles and hips, should track straight up and down.:)

Look for Paul Swift Bikefitting on U tube, simple as that:D

Your hips should track straight up and down??

Look OP, if you can get a pro bike fit for EUR85, do it.

Never listen to advice from internet forums

SurferDude41

dave2pvd wrote: »

Your hips should track straight up and down??

Look OP, if you can get a pro bike fit for EUR85, do it.

Never listen to advice from internet forums

Spoken like a true snake oil salesman. €85 for a bikefit??? Easy money for baffling people, with pseudo-scientific nonsense:(

dave2pvd

SurferDude41 wrote: »

Spoken like a true snake oil salesman. €85 for a bikefit??? Easy money for baffling people, with pseudo-scientific nonsense:(

Look, the Wattmeter doesn't lie. Most people cannot manage a DIY bike fit. I wouldn't do it, knowing that I have someone I can trust to do it for me.

People spend 1,000s on other go-faster purchases. A pro bike-fit (yes, with video analysis) is as good value as it gets. Especially if it prevents your hips going up and down.

However, if it's snake-oil you want, despair not: 'invest' in some ceramic bearings.

High Nellie

You can't be sure that a bike fit will sort you knee problem.
First you have to find out what the problem is. Therefore, a 'physio analysis' rather than a 'bike-fit analysis' might be a better place to start.
Qualified phisiotherapists are higly-qualified experts - you will need one with sports experience.
For example, muscle imbalance or tight IT band are common causes of knee problems in cyclists. A bike fit won't sort those. If it is such a problem and you get it sorted properly, then you mighnt' need any special Speedplay fancy stuff. Then again, maybe you will, but I'd suggest spending you money initially with a very well qualifed physio for a bio-mechanical analysis and it will cost you far less than a bike fit.

SurferDude41

High Nellie wrote: »

You can't be sure that a bike fit will sort you knee problem.
First you have to find out what the problem is. Therefore, a 'physio analysis' rather than a 'bike-fit analysis' might be a better place to start.
Qualified phisiotherapists are higly-qualified experts - you will need one with sports experience.
For example, muscle imbalance or tight IT band are common causes of knee problems in cyclists. A bike fit won't sort those. If it is such a problem and you get it sorted properly, then you mighnt' need any special Speedplay fancy stuff. Then again, maybe you will, but I'd suggest spending you money initially with a very well qualifed physio for a bio-mechanical analysis and it will cost you far less than a bike fit.

I would strongly have to dissagree with you. physiotherapists are great at treating sports injuries.
However most cycling related injuries, are overuse injuries. These are usually caused by poor riding position.
A case in point. A friend of mine, who enjoyed decades of injury free riding.
He treated himself to a new dream bicycle.
Within one week of riding this lovely new bike, he was crippled with IT band syndrome.
He spent a small fortune on physiotherapy, all to no avail.
Every time he rode his new bike, his IT band would become inflamed.
The physiotherapist was happy to treat my friends injury, again and again.
All Without addressing the root cause of his problem(riding position)
As far as I am concerned this physio milked my friend, like a cash cow for months on end:(

The upshot of this was, I was asked for advice on how to solve his problem.
The solution was very simple indeed, an old pair of Time pedals. Old type Time pedals, have a very wide Q-factor. These enabled my friend's feet to adopt a wider stance. His IT band issue just vanished:D
My friend continues to ride injury free, and has since changed to Speedplay pedals.

Bike fitting is part art, and part science. (Not exactly rocket science)
Done well it can solve a multitude, of cycling related injury problems.
To date I have seen too many examples, of bike fitting done very badly.
I just feel people should be aware of the facts, before parting with their hard earned money.

ryan_sherlock

I don't think there is anyone in Ireland offering this service, but I had a Retul bike fit done when I was in California with these guys: http://sportvelo.com/functional-fitting/

I was very impressed with it and the results, they found a couple of things for me to improve on and made some modifications. I also have a full breakdown of my exact bike fit so I can easily pass to another person to build up a bike to the exact fit.

It was $300 - but in my opinion, very well worth it. (Basically the cost of 6 GP4000s tires... put it in that context)

I may be a little out of the 'norm' from most readers on this forum though.

High Nellie

SurferDude41 wrote: »

I would strongly have to dissagree with you. physiotherapists are great at treating sports injuries.
However most cycling related injuries, are overuse injuries. These are usually caused by poor riding position.
A case in point. A friend of mine, who enjoyed decades of injury free riding.
....

'Doctors differ' etc.
Another 'case in point' - i.e. myself.
Had the knee problem, and the bike fit, and the speedpalys with the various shims etc.
Went to physio with another problem and mentioned the bike-knee as a 'by the way'. It took him about 5 min to diagnose (a) mis-aligned pelvis which account for the leg-length discrepancy and which he sorted, so the Speedplay stuff could be ditched, and (b) muscle imbalance on the bad leg which was even obvious to me when it was pointed out compared with the other leg - exercise regime prescribed for this.
Obvioulsy, both problems were tied up with each other over a long period and neither had anything to do with "most cycling related injuries are overuse injuries. These are usually caused by poor riding position."
I wouldn't expect a bike-fit sepcialist to diagnose either of these physiological problems and all the bike-fitting in the world wouldn't have sorted the problems.
Granted, there may be some bike-fitters who have spent a couple of years at university and internship etc learning the trade, but the one that I went to used his skill to compensate for my problem rather than getting to the bottom of the problem. My point is getting to the bottom of the problem required a level of professional knowledge and experinece that I wouldn't expect most bike-fitters to have.
Certainly, if underlying physiological problems are ruled out by an expert in that are, then a bike-fit makes perfect sense.

Billycake

High Nellie, is there any chance you could could get in touch with me and pass on that physios name? He sounds like someone who knows their game.
Thanks.

Single Malt

High Nellie, it is never wrong to get a bike fit done if you do any significant mileage. Instead of recommending physio first, recommend bike fit and physio asap in the event of problems. While your issue was misaligned pelvis, a hell of a lot of cycling problems are fit related, and without a bike fit and physio visit it can be near impossible to get to the root of the problem.

pantani

i went for a spin today and my left knee wasn't sore but felt stiff during the ride and still feels the same,i went to a physio last week and he done some work on my IT band.have felt this problem in my knee for a couple of spins now and wondering is the trouble from saddle height or saddle position?:cool:

anthonyvbyrne

Everybodys anatomy is unique. You can measure everything under the sun, but the only right fit is the one that is comfortable. ... Take your tools out on a ride, and focus on and analyse every angle and stress in your body and adjust for each one - one step at a time ... like this. If your body says 'i wish i didnt have to lean so far forward', then raise the bars by half a cm. If it says I wish i didnt have to streatch my legs so far' then lower the saddle by half a cm. ... and so on. You will probably need to stop and adjust some 5 /6 /7 times, but by the time you have covered 20 Ks you should be as close as you can possibly get to 'right'.

Thats assuming youve already bought a bike of a certain size ... If you havent bought the bike yet, you should go with the standard fitting tables ... i.e. big person, - big bike. ... small person, - small bike, etc.

dave2pvd

anthonyvbyrne wrote: »

Everybodys anatomy is unique. You can measure everything under the sun, but the only right fit is the one that is comfortable. ... Take your tools out on a ride, and focus on and analyse every angle and stress in your body and adjust for each one - one step at a time ... like this. If your body says 'i wish i didnt have to lean so far forward', then raise the bars by half a cm. If it says I wish i didnt have to streatch my legs so far' then lower the saddle by half a cm. ... and so on. You will probably need to stop and adjust some 5 /6 /7 times, but by the time you have covered 20 Ks you should be as close as you can possibly get to 'right'.

Thats assuming youve already bought a bike of a certain size ... If you havent bought the bike yet, you should go with the standard fitting tables ... i.e. big person, - big bike. ... small person, - small bike, etc.

Comfortable?? What's that got to do with going fast??

anthonyvbyrne

dave2pvd wrote: »

Comfortable?? What's that got to do with going fast??

Well actually, I should say that I am not a competitive (speed) cyclist, I am a leisure 'endurance' cyclist.

For me, Comfortable = less strain = better dynamics = last longer = go further ... You will be better able to harness your raw power if you are comfortable .... This may not be a scientific approach, but this is how I see it.

My aim is not "to be the fastest" it is to simply "Enjoy cycling":cool:

SurferDude41

pantani wrote: »

i went for a spin today and my left knee wasn't sore but felt stiff during the ride and still feels the same,i went to a physio last week and he done some work on my IT band.have felt this problem in my knee for a couple of spins now and wondering is the trouble from saddle height or saddle position?:cool:

Does your knee get sore if you don't ride your bike?
If you are doing other sports without pain, your bike position is the source of the problem......simple:D

Iliotibial band syndrome, is nearly always caused by the wrong Q-factor. Poor shoe cleat alignment, or sometimes by poor foot bio-mechanics Flat feet or very high arches, or forefoot valgus or varus...( blame your parents)
With IT band syndrome the knee is always the innocent victim, of a problem elsewhere.

pantani

i feel my problem has to be the bike and my position on it,the saturday before christmas i ran a charirty run over 10km and hadn't the slightest problem.i truly hope it is positional problems as im only riding 2 -3 hour long rides for the last month or so and hope to do some sportives and with a little luck la marmotte is my big goal in the future some time.maybe im being a bit to ambitious only taking up cycling at 41 ,was too into soccer ,gaelic and running,when i could have had some great years on the bike...dag nammit!!:cool:

SurferDude41

pantani wrote: »

i feel my problem has to be the bike and my position on it,the saturday before christmas i ran a charirty run over 10km and hadn't the slightest problem.i truly hope it is positional problems as im only riding 2 -3 hour long rides for the last month or so and hope to do some sportives and with a little luck la marmotte is my big goal in the future some time.maybe im being a bit to ambitious only taking up cycling at 41 ,was too into soccer ,gaelic and running,when i could have had some great years on the bike...dag nammit!!:cool:

Don't give up yet, at 41 you have at least another 30 years of cycling to look forward to.
Have a look at this, it will give you an idea of what good knee alignment looks like. Borrow a turbo trainer and a camcorder....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=811QduRWhBs

pantani

thanks very much surferdude really appreciate that ,ive adjusted my saddle some for todays spin so ill see how that goes and kinda work on it from there.thaks again ill keep you posted!:cool:

pantani

hey up surferdude went for a spin yesterday bout hour and a half no knee problems to report seems rising the saddle worked for me,going with the club on sunday for a long one probably 2 and a half to 3 hours so fingers crossed ,i don't get anymore trouble.:cool:

SurferDude41

Hey Pantani dude,
Glad I could help! Be sure to bring an allen key with you, on the 3 hour club ride. A saddle that is too high can cause a multitude of problems as well.:eek:
The trick is to find that elusive balance of power, efficiency and comfort:)

I find myself, if my saddle height is even 2mm too high, I get some lower back pain and my hamstrings become slightly sore....but I guess everybody is different.

Don't forget to do some post ride stretching, when you return from the clubride...

airscotty

Has to be Fernando of Fit4Bike. Know of numerous people who'v used Fit4Bike and been very happy. Uses all the gadgets such as lazor etc to make sure its bang on. I think they can travel out to you or you can go to one of there locations in North or South Dublin. fernando@fit4bike.com

fazer1

Hi guys, I went to bikefitting.ie people in Bray.
Found them to be thorough and took approx two hours to set up two bikes.
As I suspected one leg (sore knee leg) is shorter than the other. However there was no need to use shims under the cleats. Cleat position, saddle height(lowered) and handle bar height(lowered) were all adjusted. Heat moulded shoe inserts were supplied which I found to be supprisingly good. Due to the unkind weather I could only pre christmas use a turbo, however I have so far got four time during the holidays. So far no knee pain.
Expensive to get done at €160 but if it cleared up my knee issues I recon it will be money well spent.

C3PO

fazer1 wrote: »

Hi guys, I went to bikefitting.ie people in Bray.

www.bikefitting.ie doesn't exist as a site - do they have another name?

Beasty

Presumably www.bikefittingireland.com

My report on them is here

fazer1

Sorry my mistake it is www.bikefittingireland.ie, Beasty I read your report and my experience was similar to your's and as I already stated I reckon if my knee problems go it will have been well worth it.

fazer1

Sorry that should be www.bikefittingireland.com

antomagoo

whats the cost at bikefitting ireland?

fazer1

Hi antomagoo

The cost for the fitting for 2 bikes and heat moulded insoles was €160.00
I have cycled approx 700 kilometers since and no knee pain what so ever! My initial thought was expensive. How ever now with the benifit of hind sight I reckon it was well worth it. My experience was very similat to Beasty's report earlier in this thread.

deise muay thai

Where can I get a professional bike fit done in Ireland? I was watching this video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsJYRaq-3sk&feature=related but something tells me its not going to be like that if a go anywhere local.

Any toughts or ideas would be great.

kayaksurfbum

http://www.fit4bike.com/pages/home_02_ing.html

Had it done on sunday. Very professional service, iv had two bike fits before but this was the best by miles(or Kilometers!)

Murph100

Where did they do the bike fit ?

kayaksurfbum wrote: »

http://www.fit4bike.com/pages/home_02_ing.html

Had it done on sunday. Very professional service, iv had two bike fits before but this was the best by miles(or Kilometers!)

Cookie_Monster

Irishfit in Carrickmines @80
bikefitting ireland just off M11/M50 @100
fit4bike in Bray @150

All are very close to me.
150 is a bit much, so between the other two.

fran83

Had two fits with irishfit and had one with bikefitting the irishfot one is much better. I had hip problem and I am perfect now never had a pain since. The bloke is sound that does it two.

JacksonHeightsOwn

www.base2race.ie in ballymount industrial estate do them to, i personally havent used them, i used irishfit in Dun Laoghire, and personally wasnt overly impressed, after prolonged massive back pain i rejigged the set up and i was right as rain

the handy thing with base 2 race is they are just off the ballymount exit of the M50, so piss easy to get to.

its just another option

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

bikefitting ireland just off M11/M50 @100

8 week wait as of yesterday :eek:
looks like Carrickmines it'll be

macnab

Have a read of this, you might find some pearls of wisdom in there.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

dave2pvd

macnab wrote: »

Have a read of this, you might find some pearls of wisdom in there.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

A very controversial article.

Here's why:

"What about knee over the pedal axle?

Most fitting "systems" specify that some part of your knee be directly over the pedal axle at some alignment of the crank, usually with the pedal forward and the crank horizontal. This is pure nonsense. Imagine two riders, almost identical, but one rider's knees are 1 inch lower than the other's. In other words, the thigh bones of one rider are 1 inch longer than the other, and his lower legs are 1 inch shorter. Everything else about these two riders is identical, including overall height, torso length, arm length and weight. If you position the saddle such that the knee is directly over the pedal axle, the rider with the shorter thighs must have his saddle a little under 1 inch further forward of the other rider. It would be exactly 1 inch if his thigh was horizontal at that pedal position, which it isn't likely to be.

But with the saddle positioned forward, the rider with shorter thighs now has more weight that must be supported by his arms, all because of this arbitrary rule about having your knee over the pedal axle. This makes no sense. What matters is your weight distribution fore and aft, and that's determined by the fore-aft position of the saddle relative to the cranks."

His argument appears to make sense on one level; balance. IMO, he is placing more emphasis on balance than maximum power transfer (by KOPS), which 9/10 pro bike fitters seem to advocate (sorry, I have not done a survey on that recently).

I am one of those strange odd-femur length types he mentions. In my case, disproportionately long. Should I therefore be concerned about KOPS putting my ar$e too far out over the back wheel? Absolutely not. As anyone who races fast in circles knows (criterium riders), you slide fore/aft on the saddle as needed before cornering. Believe me, you get to know pretty quickly if a wheel is too lightly loaded. Then, shortly after the apex, you revert to KOPS location and try to hold onto that wheel in front of you. All over again.

damo80

anyone recommend/use the bike fit service in The Edge sportshop in cork?

Lumen

dave2pvd wrote: »

His argument appears to make sense on one level; balance. IMO, he is placing more emphasis on balance than maximum power transfer (by KOPS), which 9/10 pro bike fitters seem to advocate (sorry, I have not done a survey on that recently).

No idea what the "transfer" bit means, that's would be efficiency argument and I'm not sure I understand the relevance.

As I understand it, power production is related to hip and knee angles. The greater the hip angle the more power, and the further forward the rider the greater the hip angle for a given torso angle.

The reasons people aren't sitting directly over their bottom brackets are:

(a) It puts too much weight on the arms, which presumably require energy to support (this is an overall efficiency consideration, as well as comfort).

(b) It requires recruitment of additional core muscles for stability, see (a) for reasons this is bad. Steve Hogg has written about this extensively.

(c) For elite cyclists, short term power production is not the be-all-end-all of performance. If you can generate sufficient power with a more closed hip angle, then you'll be better off with a more comfortable, less stressful rearward seat position.

My evidence for all this is that grand tour riders are not slamming up against the 5cm rule on their non-TT bikes.

In summary: I don't buy KOPS at all, although it's a reasonable starting point.

My speculation, FWIW. I hate crits.

AstraMonti

I am bringing back this thread to ask if anyone has tried the BG fit from Specialized. I think they only ones that do it in Dublin is Cycleways and Bikehub in Howth. Any personal experiences?

templer27

damo80 wrote: »

anyone recommend/use the bike fit service in The Edge sportshop in cork?

The edge in Cork have a bike fitting service?How much is it,I bet its not cheap though.