The gay "accent"

Ginja Ninja

Just a small question I've been wondering for a while.I've a few gay friends and while some are more camp than other, none of them have the sterotypical accent.

I've met one or two people with the accent and I've always wondered, what has your sexual orientation got to do with your speech? is it a "fly the flag" thing or just filling a sterotype ?

liah

I'd imagine it would come from either consciously or subconsciously emulating women (saying this because I've not really encountered a female version of the "gay accent") and the desire to simultaneously fit in and stand out that is so common among subcultures.

I am fairly curious about it myself, actually, the above are only guesses.

ongarboy

I don't think sexual orientation has anything to do with accent. Like the previous poster said, have you ever heard of an accent associated with lesbians??

I think the stereotypical accent some gay men acquire or put on is an exaggerated Paris Hilton/90210/Orange County "that's like so oh my god or like whatever" type accent which they accentuate with rolling of eyes and mock jaw dropping outrage. Drag queens also tend to use this exaggerated psuedo-American accent and expressions.

I've no problems with some guys using this as it can be kind of humourous but if they permanently use this accent, you wonder do they get tired of constantly having to "put on" the accent and not talking naturally or does it become so normal for them that it is their new natural accent?? Teenage girls in all counties of Ireland are afflicted by the same syndrome!

SugarHigh

Gay people in London used to have their own language of sorts.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Polari
http://www.chris-d.net/polari/

I wonder if it was just the accent associated with that language which was then picked up by the BBC and used by their camp characters.

It would make sense for gay people to be able to secretly identify themselves te same they used the handkerchief colour coding system.

I guess people today pick up subconsciously by speaking like who they want to be associated with the same way some people pick up a D4 accent. So it also fits into code switching.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code-switching

EDIT: Here is a better link for an explanation on code switching in relation to gay people.
http://members.tripod.com/caroline_bowen/codemix.htm

Boston

I see you're from Mayo, is there something in the water up there that makes you guys talk the way you do? Ask yourself why you have the accent you have and you'll have your answer as to why some gay men talk alike and others don't.

Annasopra

there's no such thing as a gay accent

liah

Johnnymcg wrote: »

there's no such thing as a gay accent

There obviously isn't one all-encompassing Gay Person's Accent, certainly, but it's a bit naive to suggest that there isn't one that has ingrained itself into a part of the culture.

Straight guys can have this accent too, but it's rarer.

Quite often you can "mark" a gay guy very early on before he comes out just by the way he talks. I knew a guy I used to ride horses with was gay for years before he copped himself on and came out, it was always there in his voice.

As I said before, I'm not sure where it comes from, exactly, but I have a few theories. I would also like to say there's a big difference between the "camp" accent and the "gay" accent; the camp accent is very clearly put on, or at least intentionally exaggerated. The "gay" accent, to me, seems to be an innate part of how the person talks and a completely subconscious thing.

Again, I'm not trying to imply that all gay people have one accent, because of course that's ludicrous. But there is one that seems to tie hand in hand with the scene and is very common.

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

There obviously isn't one all-encompassing Gay Person's Accent, certainly, but it's a bit naive to suggest that there isn't one that has ingrained itself into a part of the culture.

Straight guys can have this accent too, but it's rarer.

Quite often you can "mark" a gay guy very early on before he comes out just by the way he talks. I knew a guy I used to ride horses with was gay for years before he copped himself on and came out, it was always there in his voice.

As I said before, I'm not sure where it comes from, exactly, but I have a few theories. I would also like to say there's a big difference between the "camp" accent and the "gay" accent; the camp accent is very clearly put on, or at least intentionally exaggerated. The "gay" accent, to me, seems to be an innate part of how the person talks and a completely subconscious thing.

Again, I'm not trying to imply that all gay people have one accent, because of course that's ludicrous. But there is one that seems to tie hand in hand with the scene and is very common.

I do think their is an accent that heavily present in gay culture just like ebonics in black culture but I don't think your example makes a lot of sense. I don't see how you could have predicted he was gay based on his voice. I think you just made a lucky guess.

I think people adopt the gay accent because they surround themselves with gay culture which features the accent and since they identify more with gay people they pick up the accent the same way black kids in the UK from certain areas have their own accent which is more similar to US ebonics than traditional English accents.


It's more to do with code switching than there being an actually difference in how there voice box works. If there was such an obvious difference wouldn't it be easy for scientists to make a test to identify gay people?

I also don't think camp people put on their accent on purpose although they do have control over it, code switching happens subconsciously most of the time.

liah

Have you never noticed that before?

He was very effeminate in the way he spoke. He refused to admit he was gay (Christian background) til he was I think 18ish, but everyone figured he was because of how he spoke. There were others that I didn't know as well that I always had a hunch about and they generally turned out to be gay, too.

An unfair judgment, perhaps, but it's actually a pretty accurate "tell", I've only ever met two guys who spoke effeminately who weren't gay, and I have my suspicions about one of them.

EDIT: Also, I never said the "gay accent" applies to all gay men. Only some.

MyKeyG

liah wrote: »

Have you never noticed that before?

He was very effeminate in the way he spoke. He refused to admit he was gay (Christian background) til he was I think 18ish, but everyone figured he was because of how he spoke. There were others that I didn't know as well that I always had a hunch about and they generally turned out to be gay, too.

An unfair judgment, perhaps, but it's actually a pretty accurate "tell", I've only ever met two guys who spoke effeminately who weren't gay, and I have my suspicions about one of them.

I have to agree. A number of friends I grew up with had the effeminate accent and have since come out. I can see the suggestion doesn't sit well with some people here but it pretty much holds water from what I can see.

CiaranC

Boston wrote: »

I see you're from Mayo, is there something in the water up there that makes you guys talk the way you do? Ask yourself why you have the accent you have and you'll have your answer as to why some gay men talk alike and others don't.

Eh? Mayo people talk the way they do because they were born in Mayo, raised by and around other people who talk with a particular regional accented version of English which evolved from their particular dialect of Irish. As a result, they picked up a similar learned mode of speech.

How does that relate to gay men speaking in a particular "accent" or manner?

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

Have you never noticed that before?

He was very effeminate in the way he spoke. He refused to admit he was gay (Christian background) til he was I think 18ish, but everyone figured he was because of how he spoke. There were others that I didn't know as well that I always had a hunch about and they generally turned out to be gay, too.

An unfair judgment, perhaps, but it's actually a pretty accurate "tell", I've only ever met two guys who spoke effeminately who weren't gay, and I have my suspicions about one of them.

It's all very anecdotal science. I've met very few girls who are good at math so can I make the judgment that women aren't good at math? Or are less women encouraged to do math?

There was only one person from my group of friends as a kid who turned out to be gay and yea he was a bit effeminate but I think a lot of it was down to him not worrying about the consequences of being effeminate. There is little reason for a gay man to suppress effeminate traits but it is definitely seen as a negative characteristic for straight man to have.

It's kind of like how watching Desperate Housewives might be seen as gay(because it effeminate) so a straight guy either wouldn't watch it or would never admit to it. I think the proportion of gay guys who like it is not any higher than straight guys but it's more acceptable for them.

Maybe the same applies to speech? I think straight guys feel awkward when using effeminate language so they just don't do it.

liah

SugarHigh wrote: »

It's all very anecdotal science. I've met very few girls who are good at math so can I make the judgment that women aren't good at math? Or are less women encouraged to do math?

There was only one person from my group of friends as a kid who turned out to be gay and yea he was a bit effeminate but I think a lot of it was down to him not worrying about the consequences of being effeminate. There is little reason for a gay man to suppress effeminate traits but it is definitely seen as a negative characteristic for straight man to have.

It's kind of like how watching Desperate Housewives might be seen as gay(because it effeminate) so a straight guy either wouldn't watch it or would never admit to it. I think the proportion of gay guys who like it is not any higher than straight guys but it's more acceptable for them.

Maybe the same applies to speech? I think straight guys feel awkward when using effeminate language so they just don't do it.

Wha?

I've stated like a million times in the thread that I'm not saying all gay men have this accent so I've no idea at all what angle you're going at with your first paragraph.

Regardless of the reasons for it, it's kinda just how it is. I never said it was right, or wrong, or took any kind of stance. Just giving my own anecdotal evidence; as I said earlier, I'm pretty curious myself and everything I've said so far is really only theorizing.

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

Wha?

I've stated like a million times in the thread that I'm not saying all gay men have this accent so I've no idea at all what angle you're going at with your first paragraph.

Regardless of the reasons for it, it's kinda just how it is. I never said it was right, or wrong, or took any kind of stance. Just giving my own anecdotal evidence; as I said earlier, I'm pretty curious myself and everything I've said so far is really only theorizing.

My point is that it's not really a gay accent. If someone speaks with this accent it doesn't help you decide if they are gay or not. A straight person who doesn't mind appearing effeminate is going to have just as much of a feminine tone as a gay man and I don't think it's a good idea to try and predict someones sexuality. If they say they're straight then they're straight until hey decide to say otherwise.

liah

SugarHigh wrote: »

My point is that it's not really a gay accent. If someone speaks with this accent it doesn't help you decide if they are gay or not. A straight person who doesn't mind appearing effeminate is going to have just as much of a feminine tone as a gay man and I don't think it's a good idea to try and predict someones sexuality. If they say they're straight then they're straight until hey decide to say otherwise.

Well of course, like I said, straight men can have the accent too. And it isn't an "accent," technically, but colloquially it's all we can really call it.

I don't have control over the proportions though, and proportionally it's gay men who speak like this. Regardless of the reasons. I can't help that. I don't judge these people at all, as I really don't care what sexual orientation they are, I just think it's a fairly obvious "tell" that can sometimes be wrong but more than likely isn't, from my experience. Like guessing a person's shy by their body language. Not everyone who displays typically "shy" body language is shy, but more often than not it's the case (admittedly a poor example, but I'm distracted.)

I'm really not sure how you're getting the impression you're getting from my posts.

Chuchoter

Some people are definitely born with it but then theres a whole other group of people who just put it on.

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

Well of course, like I said, straight men can have the accent too. And it isn't an "accent," technically, but colloquially it's all we can really call it.

I don't have control over the proportions though, and proportionally it's gay men who speak like this. Regardless of the reasons. I can't help that. I don't judge these people at all, as I really don't care what sexual orientation they are, I just think it's a fairly obvious "tell" that can sometimes be wrong but more than likely isn't, from my experience. Like guessing a person's shy by their body language. Not everyone who displays typically "shy" body language is shy, but more often than not it's the case (admittedly a poor example, but I'm distracted.)

I'm really not sure how you're getting the impression you're getting from my posts.

It just seems a bit teenage boyish of saying he speaks girly therefor he's probably gay. It just sounds like saying a guy who watches desperate housewives is probably gay and then backing it up with anecdotal examples of guys you know who watch it and turned out to be gay. There is nothing gay about watching it and there really isn't anything gay about how some people speak, it's just a correlation* that can't and shouldn't be used as an indicator.


*I have no idea how strong the correlation even is and relying on anecdotal evidence is pointless.

SugarHigh

crayolastereo wrote: »

Some people are definitely born with it but then theres a whole other group of people who just put it on.

Just because they aren't born with it doesn't mean they are consciously putting it on. Those cases just fall into code switching which most of the time we don't have control over. If someone whispers to you most of time you whisper back without even realising it.

SugarHigh

CiaranC wrote: »

Eh? Mayo people talk the way they do because they were born in Mayo, raised by and around other people who talk with a particular regional accented version of English which evolved from their particular dialect of Irish. As a result, they picked up a similar learned mode of speech.

How does that relate to gay men speaking in a particular "accent" or manner?

An accent doesn't have to be tied to a region. Cultural accents exist such as intellectual accents which are world wide and individual accents which are an amalgamation of many different accents but not tied to any specific accent such as Loyd Grossman.

We just associate accents with locations because they are the most common.

liah

SugarHigh wrote: »

It just seems a bit teenage boyish of saying he speaks girly therefor he's probably gay. It just sounds like saying a guy who watches desperate housewives is probably gay and then backing it up with anecdotal examples of guys you know who watch it and turned out to be gay. There is nothing gay about watching it and there really isn't anything gay about how some people speak, it's just a correlation* that can't and shouldn't be used as an indicator.


*I have no idea how strong the correlation even is and relying on anecdotal evidence is pointless.

All I'm getting from you at this stage is that you apparently have a sub(?)conscious desire to watch Desperate Housewives. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :pac:

I think you're reading too far into it, or just purposely ignoring me when I say, repeatedly, that it is something I have noticed in my experience and I am in no way, at all, saying, or have ever said, that I have any problem with straight guys speaking effeminately or acting effeminately, I am in no way, at all, saying that I think they should be gay because they speak this way.

Literally the only thing I have said is that I have noticed that when it comes to men speaking in an effeminate manner, nine times out of ten they turn out to be gay. That's it. That's all. I don't care either way if they're gay or not. I don't expect gay men to speak effeminately, nor expect straight men not to speak effeminately. It is just a trend, a very prevalent trend, that I have noticed.

I've never claimed it to be anything other than anecdotal or anything other than a trend.

SugarHigh

liah wrote: »

All I'm getting from you at this stage is that you apparently have a sub(?)conscious desire to watch Desperate Housewives. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :pac:

I think you're reading too far into it, or just purposely ignoring me when I say, repeatedly, that it is something I have noticed in my experience and I am in no way, at all, saying, or have ever said, that I have any problem with straight guys speaking effeminately or acting effeminately, I am in no way, at all, saying that I think they should be gay because they speak this way.

Literally the only thing I have said is that I have noticed that when it comes to men speaking in an effeminate manner, nine times out of ten they turn out to be gay. That's it. That's all. I don't care either way if they're gay or not. I don't expect gay men to speak effeminately, nor expect straight men not to speak effeminately. It is just a trend, a very prevalent trend, that I have noticed.

I've never claimed it to be anything other than anecdotal or anything other than a trend.

I know you weren't claiming it to be a negative.

I do believe there is a gay accent but I don't believe it to be so prevalent as to be a good indicator. There is also the problem of being able to identify the accent. People might pick up a lisp as being part of the gay accent which it isn't.

Some people might not be able to identify the differences between a Cork and Kerry accent but for those that can they can be quite certain that the person with the Kerry accent is from Kerry.

Even if you can identify the people with the gay accent you have a much less certainty of them being gay than the person being from Kerry.

So I just see it as a useless indicator because it requires you to identify the accent correctly and then for the person to fall into the group of people who have the accent which are gay.

DS333

I once asked a guy about this and he told me, quite categorically, that he started speaking that way once he accepted who he was, and that it had become a part of himself.

I know of a famous man from 1930's Oxford, Brian Howard, who spoke that way all his life and, in his forties, at a dinner party soon before he committed suicide, spoke in his normal voice. Everybody was struck dumb but nobody dared ask him why.

stephen_n

CiaranC wrote: »

Eh? Mayo people talk the way they do because they were born in Mayo, raised by and around other people who talk with a particular regional accented version of English which evolved from their particular dialect of Irish. As a result, they picked up a similar learned mode of speech.

How does that relate to gay men speaking in a particular "accent" or manner?

I think if you read your answer it's not really hard to make the link to his point! In that gay men speak that way because they are quite often surrounded by other gay men that do and it's a form of assimilation to do so! I know Cork people who work in Dublin and have no traces of a Cork accent or inflections what so ever but as soon as they talk to another Cork person they immediately drop the affected accent and return to their Cork one!

I don't think Accent is the right description for this either it's more an affectation of the speech that is adopted for social normification i.e. To fit in!

lionchild

why don't we ask douglas?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBVAJselZ98


:pac:

Annasopra

lionchild wrote: »

why don't we ask douglas?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBVAJselZ98


:pac:

he's a kid - what's your point?

oisindoyle

I was a little confused by the OP title gay accent .I presume the OP is talking about someone who comes across as being quite effeminate or camp.So what if someone if camp or effeminate ,they still have the fears and worries or any other gay person.
But to suggest there is a gay accent is a bit silly in the extreme

Annasopra

oisindoyle wrote: »

But to suggest there is a gay accent is a bit silly in the extreme

I agree - yes there are some camp and effeminate men but I still think there is absolutely no such thing as a gay accent

DS333

It's a combination of voice, accent, modulation and pronunciation, AND it's the same the world over. I've heard it everywhere I've been - US, UK, here, any English-speaking country.

eaglach

Anyone who I know with effeminate speech has turned out to be gay. I'm not saying everyone I have met, but just the people I see on a semi regular basis.

As someone mentioned before about people adopting the accent when they come out. I believe that is true. I used to watch a teenager on youtube a few years back who made videos about coming out and life as a gay teenager. In the beginning he was this quiet, shy and did not speak in an effeminate manner at all. But as time went on he gained more confidence and all of a sudden he started to speak with an effeminate voice.

It was the weirdest thing in my eyes. It seemed to me that once he accepted himself and gained confidence in himself he started to talk that way. Maybe its something to do with not trying to hide things from the public. When you're in the closet you try and not to display any stereotypical signs of being gay, and once you come out you dont care anymore?

Links234

eaglach wrote: »

It seemed to me that once he accepted himself and gained confidence in himself he started to talk that way. Maybe its something to do with not trying to hide things from the public. When you're in the closet you try and not to display any stereotypical signs of being gay, and once you come out you dont care anymore?

that would be my take on it too

Wolfe Tone

I have a friend who spoke like the rest of us for years(Drogheda) yet since he came out he started speaking in a way which one would stereotypically attribute to gays(rightly or wrongly). I'm convinced he is putting it on for some reason. Must ask him about it.

Links234

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I have a friend who spoke like the rest of us for years(Drogheda) yet since he came out he started speaking in a way which one would stereotypically attribute to gays(rightly or wrongly). I'm convinced he is putting it on for some reason. Must ask him about it.

see, how do you know that when he was speaking like the rest of you, that wasn't put on?

Wolfe Tone

Links234 wrote: »

see, how do you know that when he was speaking like the rest of you, that wasn't put on?

I knew him since we were around 3. He never spoke differently.

DubArk

I have lived most my adult life abroad, mainly in New York and London. It has been mentioned to me, on numerous occasions that the Irish accent seems to have a campness to it! It’s the soft lilt in many cases; I’m led to believe…..

Depends on who’s ear is listening to it, id imagine?!?

Are all the Irish gay/bi then?

liah

DubArk wrote: »

I have lived most my adult life abroad, mainly in New York and London. It has been mentioned to me, on numerous occasions that the Irish accent seems to have a campness to it! It’s the soft lilt in many cases; I’m led to believe…..

Depends on who’s ear is listening to it, id imagine?!?

Are all the Irish gay/bi then?

I'm Canadian and I can tell the difference between an Irish person and a camp/effeminate Irish person. I could even when I'd only just got there. I think they'd be talking sh!te.

Deflector

But of course there is such a thing as what might be described as a gay accent. I wouldn't describe it as camp - effeminate seems vaguely more appropriate - rather it typically involves a lisp and/or precise, clearly articulated speech or diction. Yes of course you find it amongst a wider group of people than gay men, but it certainly predominates in that group. And it tends not to be something that is adopted at a certain point - rather it seems to be something people are born with or grow up with.

I understand the 'other' camp gay accent being spoken about above, but that ties into a wider gay culture from what I've observed and cannot be tied into the more 'inherent' accent one often identifies with gay men.

Aard

DS333 wrote: »

It's a combination of voice, accent, modulation and pronunciation, AND it's the same the world over. I've heard it everywhere I've been - US, UK, here, any English-speaking country.

Even other countries, in my experience. France, Italy, Belgium, Scandinavia: it's pretty obvious, even if one doesn't speak the language that well.

LegacyUser

liah wrote: »

All I'm getting from you at this stage is that you apparently have a sub(?)conscious desire to watch Desperate Housewives. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :pac:

I think you're reading too far into it, or just purposely ignoring me when I say, repeatedly, that it is something I have noticed in my experience and I am in no way, at all, saying, or have ever said, that I have any problem with straight guys speaking effeminately or acting effeminately, I am in no way, at all, saying that I think they should be gay because they speak this way.

Literally the only thing I have said is that I have noticed that when it comes to men speaking in an effeminate manner, nine times out of ten they turn out to be gay. That's it. That's all. I don't care either way if they're gay or not. I don't expect gay men to speak effeminately, nor expect straight men not to speak effeminately. It is just a trend, a very prevalent trend, that I have noticed.

I've never claimed it to be anything other than anecdotal or anything other than a trend.

I know what you're saying. I think because you're calling it an accent people are misunderstanding. It's not an accent like some people have a belfast accent or a Scottish accent, it's a difference in their voice. like it's slightly higher and a bit croaky or something. In my experience, the men I know that have voices like this are gay.

DS333

Aard wrote: »

Even other countries, in my experience. France, Italy, Belgium, Scandinavia: it's pretty obvious, even if one doesn't speak the language that well.

Yes, that's true. I' forgotten about a guy I met in Mexico and in Venezuela. They had the voice, and very brave of them too. There are no more homophobic places than South America...