Why bother recycling paper?

Sticky_Fingers

Why do people bother recycling paper or cardboard? I know the argument goes that it will prevent the chopping down of trees to make the paper and deforestation is bad bla bla bla but won't it be better to just dump the paper in a hole, bury it and grow sustainable forests to provide wood pulp for more paper?

If you bury the paper aren't you effectively trapping all that carbon that may find its way into the atmosphere? Growing more trees, making more paper and then dumping that takes even more CO2 out etc etc so you would effectively be helping reduce CO2 in the air which would help fight global warming, all accomplished by not recycling paper.
Anyone have any thoughts or reasons why this argument is a load or rubbish?

admiralofthefleet

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Why do people bother recycling paper or cardboard? I know the argument goes that it will prevent the chopping down of trees to make the paper and deforestation is bad bla bla bla but won't it be better to just dump the paper in a hole, bury it and grow sustainable forests to provide wood pulp for more paper?

If you bury the paper aren't you effectively trapping all that carbon that may find its way into the atmosphere? Growing more trees, making more paper and then dumping that takes even more CO2 out etc etc so you would effectively be helping reduce CO2 in the air which would help fight global warming, all accomplished by not recycling paper.
Anyone have any thoughts or reasons why this argument is a load or rubbish?

its a load of bollix

OutlawPete

Cause God didn't give us things so we could cover them with shit.

Save the trees!!!

Then we'll have lovely woods!!

Then bears will have somewhere to ..

Wait .. good question actually.

Why recycle paper?? :mad:

AnonoBoy

Why do birds suddenly appear
Every time you are near?
Just like me
They long to be
Recycling paper with you!


Or at least that's how I remember Rick Moranis singing the song in that movie Parenthood.

Onesimus

I've often wondered if I'm writing on recycled paper somebody has wiped their *** with.

ascanbe

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Why do people bother recycling paper or cardboard? I know the argument goes that it will prevent the chopping down of trees to make the paper and deforestation is bad bla bla bla but won't it be better to just dump the paper in a hole, bury it and grow sustainable forests to provide wood pulp for more paper?

If you bury the paper aren't you effectively trapping all that carbon that may find its way into the atmosphere? Growing more trees, making more paper and then dumping that takes even more CO2 out etc etc so you would effectively be helping reduce CO2 in the air which would help fight global warming, all accomplished by not recycling paper.
Anyone have any thoughts or reasons why this argument is a load or rubbish?

I'm not too up on this kinda stuff; but i'm guessing if you bury some paper and come back to that spot in, say, 30 years, you won't find that a tree has sprouted on that spot.
If you dig, you'll probably find that paper in rag-order.
Guess it comes down to the question of if de-forestation is essentially damaging to our enviroment.

some_dose

Did ya ever RAPE someone?!

mgmt

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Why do people bother recycling paper or cardboard? I know the argument goes that it will prevent the chopping down of trees to make the paper and deforestation is bad bla bla bla but won't it be better to just dump the paper in a hole, bury it and grow sustainable forests to provide wood pulp for more paper?

If you bury the paper aren't you effectively trapping all that carbon that may find its way into the atmosphere? Growing more trees, making more paper and then dumping that takes even more CO2 out etc etc so you would effectively be helping reduce CO2 in the air which would help fight global warming, all accomplished by not recycling paper.
Anyone have any thoughts or reasons why this argument is a load or rubbish?

Carbon Carbon Carbon

Have they not banned us from breathing yet?




Anyways.

Grow trees (Absorb carbon). Burn trees (Release carbon).
Net change in carbon = 0

This is called Biomass Energy and is carbon neutral.



The trees being cut down in the Amazon (deforestation) is not being used for paper production. But farming. Paper recycling is a waste of space.

ascanbe

some_dose wrote: »

Did ya ever RAPE someone?!

You raped the poor enviroment with your careless use of paper..possibly.

Saila

wont someone please think of the trees

Sticky_Fingers

ascanbe wrote: »

I'm not too up on this kinda stuff; but i'm guessing if you bury some paper and come back to that spot in, say, 30 years, you won't find that a tree has sprouted on that spot.
If you dig, you'll probably find that paper in rag-order.
Guess it comes down to the question of if de-forestation is essentially damaging to our enviroment.

De-forestation of natural forest is bad, we all accept that but cutting down sustainable managed forests for pulp cannot be considered de-forestation since cut down trees are replaced with younger ones.
As for coming back to the site in 30 years if it done right and the amount of chemicals companies use in the manufacturer of paper such as bleach is reduced/removed from the paper it should be completely composted into the soil.

ascanbe

mgmt wrote: »

Carbon Carbon Carbon

Have they not banned us from breathing yet?




Anyways.

Grow trees (Absorb carbon). Burn trees (Release carbon).
Net change in carbon = 0

This is called Biomass Energy and is carbon neutral.

The trees being cut down in the Amazon (deforestation) is not being used for paper production. But farming. Paper recycling is a waste of space.

Just wondering; you might know better than me. If man-kind made a concerted effort to wipe out all trees/or as many as possible in the next ten years, would it make any difference, in your opinion?

ascanbe

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

De-forestation of natural forest is bad, we all accept that but cutting down sustainable managed forests for pulp cannot be considered de-forestation since cut down trees are replaced with younger ones.
As for coming back to the site in 30 years if it done right and the amount of chemicals companies use in the manufacturer of paper such as bleach is reduced/removed from the paper it should be completely composted into the soil.

Wasn't trying to be smart; genuinely didn't know that. Do you know if the chemicals generally used in the production of paper/print is regulated? Just wondering; don't even know if that's a particularly important question.

marco_polo

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Why do people bother recycling paper or cardboard? I know the argument goes that it will prevent the chopping down of trees to make the paper and deforestation is bad bla bla bla but won't it be better to just dump the paper in a hole, bury it and grow sustainable forests to provide wood pulp for more paper?

If you bury the paper aren't you effectively trapping all that carbon that may find its way into the atmosphere? Growing more trees, making more paper and then dumping that takes even more CO2 out etc etc so you would effectively be helping reduce CO2 in the air which would help fight global warming, all accomplished by not recycling paper.
Anyone have any thoughts or reasons why this argument is a load or rubbish?

The energy required to manufacture paper from other used paper is far less than that required to make new paper from wood (Think in terms of lumber, transport and pulping of very large tree trunks). With the number of sustainable forrest in use nowadays this benefit is much less than say a decade ago.

ascanbe

marco_polo wrote: »

The energy required to manufacture paper from other used paper is far less than that required to make new paper from wood (Think in terms of lumber, transport and pulping of very large tree trunks). With the number of sustainable forrest in use nowadays this benefit is much less than say a decade ago.

That certainly seems to make a lot of sense; provided that it's true that converting old paper to new is less energy/time consuming; certainly seems that producing some of the new paper needed would be sensibly met in this way if not all could.

Sticky_Fingers

ascanbe wrote: »

[/B]

Wasn't trying to be smart; genuinely didn't know that. Do you know if the chemicals generally used in the production of paper/print is regulated? Just wondering; don't even know if that's a particularly important question.

No problem, wasn't taking a shot at you. As for chemicals in paper I not too sure myself. I think there are recent rules regarding the use of bleach and paper but other then that I haven't a clue.

marco_polo wrote: »

The energy required to manufacture paper from other used paper is far less than that required to make new paper from wood (Think in terms of lumber, transport and pulping of very large tree trunks). With the number of sustainable forrest in use nowadays this benefit is much less than say a decade ago.

So it is beneficial to the environment to keep recycling paper then? I've no problem if it was based on environmental or econimc concerns, who doesn't like low cost paper but I'd prefer to know which one its really for, all you hear is you need to recycle to keep the big bad global warming monster at bay and not that if we didn't do this we'd charge you more for your notepad.

mgmt

ascanbe wrote: »

That certainly seems to make a lot of sense; provided that it's true that converting old paper to new is less energy/time consuming; certainly seems that producing some of the new paper needed would be sensibly met in this way if not all could.

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzLebC0mjCQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wS1dv3iat8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvz-z7CvsYA

I recycle all my waste paper, I burn it in the fire!

Helps heat the house.

Ghost Estate

Deleted User wrote: »

I recycle all my waste paper, I burn it in the fire!

Helps heat the house.

Paper is just too useful as a fuel to be giving away for free.

starbelgrade

I recycle everything I can.

Why?

It costs €8 to have a landfill bin collected & €3 for a recycling bin.

Simple economics.

srsly78

Recycling paper is a waste of energy. It's easier to farm trees and make it from scratch -> completely renewable. The recycling process uses even nastier chemicals than normal production.

Biggins

I despair!

srsly78

Biggins wrote: »

I despair!

Why do you despair? We are only talking about paper here. Recycling other stuff is good. Paper however is controversial, there is evidence for and against. You must realise surely that trees are a renewable resource right?

kylith

I've had to point out to people in work that far from killing the forests using paper saves forests because the more paper that's used the more trees that have to be planted to keep up with demand.

The recycling taking less energy is the only arguement for recycling I've heard that makes sense. However the question is then; why does recycled paper cost so much more?

That said, I recycle paper at home because the green bin is cheaper to put out than the black one. If I had a fire I'd burn the paper in that though, then I'd only have to put out the green bin when it was full of cans and that'd be only once every 4/6 weeks.

sbsquarepants

A lot of so called "green" ideas don't stand up to scrutiny. I'm all for protecting the environment, insulate your house, reduce packaging etc, plastic bag tax, one of the best ideas ever in my opinion, but recycling paper just seems like environmental stupidity to me, glass to a big extent too. Wasn't it worked out that if your drive to the bottle bank is any more than a few hundred metres, you've created more emisions than would have been caused by the manufacture of a dozen wine bottles (no, i dont have a source, but i read it in the star so it must be true!)
And speaking of reducing packaging, how the hell did it take so long for someone to come up with the idea of selling coffee in bags? It absolutely genius, but so god damned obvious! I wish i'd thought of it:D

sbsquarepants

kylith wrote: »

That said, I recycle paper at home because the green bin is cheaper to put out than the black one. If I had a fire I'd burn the paper in that though, then I'd only have to put out the green bin when it was full of cans and that'd be only once every 4/6 weeks.

Alcohol? Squashed?
That's hardcore!:D:D

kylith

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Alcohol? Squashed?
That's hardcore!:D:D

Food cans, you can't squash those as well. Probably some plastic packaging too, tbh.

Must buy beers, thanks for reminding me.

AntiMatter

Hemp is the way to go.

It grows far faster, actually puts nutrients back in to the soil, the paper lasts longer, and it can be used for a multitude of other things.

Hemp will save the world.

Deus Ex Machina

For those who wish to look, there is a great deal of evidence that recycling most things other than aluminium is not beneficial to the environment.

ejmaztec

Onesimus wrote: »

I've often wondered if I'm writing on recycled paper somebody has wiped their *** with.

If you're writing a threatening letter to someone, they'll probably wipe their arse with it after they read it, so it'll come full circle.

kylith

AntiMatter wrote: »

Hemp is the way to go.

It grows far faster, actually puts nutrients back in to the soil, the paper lasts longer, and it can be used for a multitude of other things.

Hemp will save the world.

You could be right there. I seem to recall hearing something along the lines that you can get more paper out of an acre of hemp in a year than out of 4 acres of trees in the same time.

Still, cutting down trees to plant hemp mightn't be the world's greatest idea.

tadcan

The argument about landfill doesn't work in this country. No one wants a dump in their back yard and dumping is much more expensive because we have less land then the US. I worked in garbage collection/recycling the bosses told us they couldn't afford to just dump everything.

One thing not mentioned in that video was the recycling of building waste and metal. Old concrete was used as the base for motorways, soil was cleaned up and reused.

AntiMatter

kylith wrote: »

You could be right there. I seem to recall hearing something along the lines that you can get more paper out of an acre of hemp in a year than out of 4 acres of trees in the same time.

The benefits of growing it are manifold, and it's perfect for crop rotation, instead of leaving fields fallow.

Here are some more of the benfits...

• Fast and robust growth: Hemp grows extremely fast and can be grown in any climate, in any agronomic system
• No herbicides/pesticides required: Hemp can be grown with no (or little) herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, or other biocides.
• Suppresses weeds: Hemp is a natural weed suppressor due to the fast growth of the canopy. Actually, hemp is a weed. Because it grows so fast and densely, it blocks out sunlight to other weeds that are trying to grow.
• Improves soil structure: Due to it’s long roots, hemp replenishes soil with nutrients and nitrogen and helps control erosion of topsoil. Also, once harvested, any residue can act as an eco-friendly manure.
• Hemp produces lots of oxygen: Hemp produces the same amount of oxygen while it’s growing that it would use in carbon dioxide if burned as a fuel. Also, due to it’s leaf/root ratio (this can often be 10% roots vs 30% leaves), hemp can produce between 20% - 40% more oxygen than will be polluted.
• Cleans up pollution: Hemp can actually clean up toxins from the ground. This process is called phytoremediation. A good example of this is when hemp was used to help clean up the Chernobyl nuclear disaster site to remove radioactive elements from the ground.

Still, cutting down trees to plant hemp mightn't be the world's greatest idea.

Cut them down when they're ready and replace with hemp over time.

Industrial hemp doesn't get you high anyway, due to it's low thc content.

It's big in France, I believe, where they even use it as a building material, replacing concrete.

marco_polo

srsly78 wrote: »

Recycling paper is a waste of energy. It's easier to farm trees and make it from scratch -> completely renewable. The recycling process uses even nastier chemicals than normal production.

http://www.epa.gov/osw/conserve/materials/paper/basics/

Recycling one ton of paper would:
-> Save enough energy to power the average American home for six months.
-> Save 7,000 gallons of water.
-> Save 3.3 cubic yards of landfill space.
-> Reduce greenhouse gas emissions by one metric ton of carbon equivalent