Dealing with fatigue ...

PaulBrewer

How do the brothers deal with tiredness recording ?

I recently mixed a track for an Irish rock artist after a couple of hard work weeks.
Musically the balance was ok but I fell into a trap I've fallen into before - namely too much compression.

The obvious thing to do was stop and comeback to it, but the guy needed the track up on iTunes to coincide with some European TV show he's on.

How does tiredness affect your work ?

How do you 'second-guess' your fatigue ?

woodsdenis

PaulBrewer wrote: »

How do the brothers deal with tiredness recording ?

I recently mixed a track for an Irish rock artist after a couple of hard work weeks.
Musically the balance was ok but I fell into a trap I've fallen into before - namely too much compression.

The obvious thing to do was stop and comeback to it, but the guy needed the track up on iTunes to coincide with some European TV show he's on.

How does tiredness affect your work ?

How do you 'second-guess' your fatigue ?

I always take 10-15 mins break every hour. It works.
Also I would never commit to a mix last thing at night.

PaulBrewer

woodsdenis wrote: »

I always take 10-15 mins break every hour. It works.

Really ? that much ? I'm all for the regular cuppa in the caff across the road but I wouldn't usually go that often.

I do acknowledge the value of 'resetting' the head ok ....

jtsuited

afaik, your ears pretty much knacker after 40 minutes. they need at least 10 minutes after that.

DamagedTrax

same as.. a few minutes every hour for a quick cuppa/smoke, have some conversation and tune the ears into something else besides music.

GTE

When I know I have a big project on usually a 10 minute break with a cup of tea every hour.

When its just the odd song I do fall into the trap you were describing and over do it and mess up the mix with compression and things. Usually though the next day I can hear exactly what mistakes I made but by then you could have a couple of hours wasted.

trackmixstudio

I find high frequency balance is the first thing to go when fatigue sets in.
I take a break by listening to something "dark" for a few songs and grab a coffee.
My current fave is "high violet" by The National.
When I go back to the mix I can hear balance far better.
Works for me.

danjokill

60 min's normally during mixing ........ i do more tracking than mixing, when tracking i sometimes just have to run with it because the takes are coming in good.

btw kenco over nescafe!!! and one of those giant stainless steel travel mugs that you get it the petrol stations is the most important peice of hardware you can have when dealing with fatique.

also sleep ........ i find that first thing in the morning is when i can judge a mix best. i will have done something the night before and have gone to bed thinking that was great ........ get up the next morning only to find that what i had done wasnt so great ..... normally balance issues

studiorat

I take a 50min break every 10 minutes...

dav nagle

I guess I drink loads of coffee and mute the mix and give my ears some silence.

Platinum Recording

I find it all depends on the situation, sometimes if the vibe is flowing I might not take a break for a few hours espicially if I'm working on a composition or mix on my own. Having said that, I also think its very important to take regular breaks, just to get off that seat and move around. Move outside, listen to something different, it all helps to reset the ears. I'm 6'3" and need to get a stretch in every now and again!!!

But, I really like studiorat's idea :D

Denalihighway

I worked with an engineer who's favourite method of dealing with 'fatique' (let's say) was to simply...fall asleep.

Very often in the middle of me doing takes...I guess people have all kinds of approaches

PaulBrewer

Denalihighway wrote: »

I worked with an engineer who's favourite method of dealing with 'fatique' (let's say) was to simply...fall asleep.

Very often in the middle of me doing takes...I guess people have all kinds of approaches

That is my preferred method ok ...but ...

madtheory

Most research shows our attention span is around 40 mins, so regular 10 minute breaks work wonders when mixing. It also gives the aluminium voice coil in the NS10s a chance to cool down, getting rid of that 1kHz honk!

shayleon

DamagedTrax wrote: »

same as.. a few minutes every hour for a quick cuppa/smoke

I envy you! Had to quit the cigs and the breaks are not the same!

Do you guys ever get clients that look at you funny when you take a break, or that make you feel uncomfortable about it? (or is it all in my head?)

studiorat

madtheory wrote: »

It also gives the aluminium voice coil in the NS10s a chance to cool down, getting rid of that 1kHz honk!

interesting, never heard of that before.

Got any uber-nerd linkage?

Niall - Dahlia

shayleon wrote: »

Do you guys ever get clients that look at you funny when you take a break, or that make you feel uncomfortable about it? (or is it all in my head?)

I'd generally mix alone, but one of my pet hates during tracking (and it happens so often with young bands) is hearing something along the lines of this at the start of the day:

"Ok Ben and Jerry will lay down drum and bass until 3pm, rest of us can head round get a breakfast roll during that, when they're finished Ben and Jerry can head round the shops while Jimi does the guitar until 6pm, then we can all go get some pizza and maybe some pints when he's finished at 6pm while Axl's doing the vocal takes". :mad:

The more experienced guys, the session heads, always take plenty of breaks and take their time with everything, with much better results.

PaulBrewer

NO track is more important than Lunch ...:mad:

madtheory

studiorat wrote: »

interesting, never heard of that before.

Got any uber-nerd linkage?

Desperately searching right now... I suspect I might have confused Kapton with aluminium...

jtsuited

PaulBrewer wrote: »

NO track is more important than Lunch ...:mad:

I wish I had learned this 5 years ago. Ya miss lunch for 6 days straight and your brain and body start going wonky so easily.

PaulBrewer

From reading about and chatting to some of the Top lads one thing that's common to all is -

1. Recording/Mixing is a craft, primarily built from work rather than magic.

2. Taking breaks and working reasonable hours is because you do care rather than any indication that you don't.

Keeping your head, ears and body from getting tired makes for good decision making, which is what makes the best tracks.

TelePaul

Question for you more experienced chaps: When your ears get fatigued, is this from listening to the specific mix in question or from listening to music in general? It was suggested to me elsewhere that if you're an amateur or hobbyist with no real time constraints, you should just park the mix for a number of days and listen to other commercial tunes. But would this not mean that instead of obsessing over, say, the bass in your mix, you just obsess over the overhead compression on a commercial tune?

Would it be better to switch off the radio, tv and ipod entirely for a period of time?

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Question for you more experienced chaps: When your ears get fatigued, is this from listening to the specific mix in question or from listening to music in general? It was suggested to me elsewhere that if you're an amateur or hobbyist with no real time constraints, you should just park the mix for a number of days and listen to other commercial tunes. But would this not mean that instead of obsessing over, say, the bass in your mix, you just obsess over the overhead compression on a commercial tune?

Would it be better to switch off the radio, tv and ipod entirely for a period of time?

'Ears' in this context really means your whole body. If you're at it long enough - and loud enough - that you can 'feel' your ears aren't performing then you're probably at the stage where mistakes and bad decisions are being made.

Everything needs a rest ...

Time to lock up !

off.the.walls

Sometimes if I have a close deadline, red bull and lucozade energy tablets. The rest of the time I'd go for a hour or two take a break if I need to have a nap then get back to work after. Always have tea and food there too!

krd

I don't know - it's my most serious problem - but since I'm aware of it I'm slowly improving.

Ear fatigue is not just your ears - it's a whole perceptual thing. I stop hearing serious mistakes. They could be very blatant but I just can't hear them - it could take a few hours or days distance to hear what I've gone and done.

Trying to get something done really quickly helps - if you can get it to sound right quickly. I've spent ridiculous amounts of time trying to get sounds that should have come together for me in seconds. I think that's also ear fatigue.

Over using an effect - overkill - using a little more force than is absolutely necessary, is probably your mind and hearing playing tricks on you at the same time.

My theory: You want a little reverb on something. You apply the reverb - it's too much. Your ears tell you though, you've done the right thing because they can hear the reverb loud and clear - and your mind tells you it's ok because your ears can hear the reverb loud and clear. But it's wrong. And even if it's clearly wrong - you still don't hear the mistake until you get a few hours distances.

I don't know the solution. I think there's a few - I haven't got these all down but I think.

1. You always make the same mistakes until you learn how not too. That may sound obvious - but if you repeatedly overlook something obvious - or if you know you're liable to use overkill on compression. Or if you're missing a important frequency range in your mixes. If you're a repeat offender of obvious mistakes.it's probably not your hearing, just a unconscious habit of doing something you need to be more conscious of

2. When you apply an effect or anything - detach yourself for a minute and ask yourself did you get the result you were expecting. It may not be.

3. If your technique is to spend hours working to the point of exhaustion - only to come back and fix all the mistakes you've made - it's not a very efficient method of working. Your not really getting the most out of your production time.

4. I haven't done this yet - but I'm seriously considering doing it. Take notes - switch off the music - write more notes. Then switch on the music - do your work - switch it off. Do a systematic quality control - have a check list.
Industrial Light and Magic, have teams of people who slowly and carefully go through every single cell of their animations, repeatedly, until they literally go blind, fixing the glitches and artefacts by hand. Listen to the music write down what needs fixing and switch the music off - it might work better to only have the music on when you absolutely need it.

I think the mental thing of not hearing obvious mistakes because you've been listening to often to the track could be common.

I have a big problem at the minute of pining down ideas that I have in my head but the minute I have the DAW rolling what's there blows it out of my head, so I can't do it. I need to find a way of getting the ideas very clear in my head or on paper so I can them into the DAW.

henessjon

studiorat wrote: »

I take a 50min break every 10 minutes...

thats theway