2010 Budget - Changes to farming?

dryan

How will we be affected? All should become clearer in the coming hours.
Maybe we could use this thread to keep a log of the changes?

irishh_bob

i expect stock relief to be effected
capital gains tax to be increased from 25% to 30%
disadvantaged area payments to be effected

blue5000

2 cents on diesel,4 on petrol.

Public sector pay capped at 250k, he really broke his arze there

JohnBoy

Stock relief unchanged/extended for another 2 years.

arctictree

irishh_bob wrote: »

i expect stock relief to be effected
capital gains tax to be increased from 25% to 30%
disadvantaged area payments to be effected

Dont see any changes in CGT.

Also, doesnt seem to be any changes in stamp duty for farm land.

Residential stamp has dropped to 1% up to 1M and 2% over 1M.

bogman_bass

Looks like we got away relitivly easy

tismesoitis

any news on the €40 suckler welfare

blue5000

just got a text from ifa, su cow welfare, das reps forestry retained, aeos reopened

tismesoitis

blue5000 wrote: »

just got a text from ifa, su cow welfare, das reps forestry retained, aeos reopened

some good news this budget is a rollercoaster:D

whelan1

also fwms to be paid out in december:)

ihatetractors

whelan1 wrote: »

also fwms to be paid out in december:)

Heard that before :mad:

reilig

Reacting to Budget 2011, IFA President John Bryan said the changes to the tax and PRSI regime will impact negatively on every household in the country, and will be particularly harsh on low-income families, many of whom are in the farming sector.

Mr Bryan said the Budget recognised the vital role that farming, forestry and the wider agri-food sector plays in driving exports and maintaining jobs, which are critical to assist in economic recovery.

He said “The farm schemes – especially Disadvantaged Areas, REPS, Suckler Cow Welfare and forestry - are vital in maintaining low-income family farms across rural Ireland. The decision to keep them in place and to provide for a new AEOS scheme, for the 10,000 farmers leaving REPS3 in 2011, is very important and welcome.”
Mr Bryan said that the continuation of incentives, including stock relief and capital allowances, was critical to facilitate the expansion of the sector. However, the 20% reduction in the Capital Acquisition Tax threshold is very severe and will have a negative impact on farm transfers.
The increase in excise duty on fuel will have a hugely damaging effect on the agri-food, export led sector. The Government will have to revisit their proposals on carbon tax in light of these increases.

The Government’s decision to bring forward the final payment under the Farm Waste Management Scheme will provide a much-needed cashflow boost to those badly affected by the delay.

www.ifa.ie

irishh_bob

bogman_bass wrote: »

Looks like we got away relitivly easy

this isnt in anyway meant to sound anti farmer but farmers are among the voting blocks who fianna fail feel they can hang on to in the upcoming election which is why ( IMO ) farmers along with the public sector and of course pensioners ( the most loyal of all FF voters ) have been shielded from cuts

i think FF will do much better than polls are suggesting in the coming election , farmers are traditional and conservative , they vote along family lines in a lot of cases , add to that the fact that they only vote for two parties ( farmers in monaghan excluded ) and you still have a sizeable FF vote

trevor_matode

Sites will be even harder to sell, not that I've sold any in the last 24months (I'm in east Galway).

That 1% Stamp duty across the board means 2nd-hand houses now become much cheaper relative to new builds.

This is the farmers being silently screwed by the Govt, they have devalued our land big-time. :mad:

Tipp Man

irishh_bob wrote: »

this isnt in anyway meant to sound anti farmer but farmers are among the voting blocks who fianna fail feel they can hang on to in the upcoming election which is why ( IMO ) farmers along with the public sector and of course pensioners ( the most loyal of all FF voters ) have been shielded from cuts

i think FF will do much better than polls are suggesting in the coming election , farmers are traditional and conservative , they vote along family lines in a lot of cases , add to that the fact that they only vote for two parties ( farmers in monaghan excluded ) and you still have a sizeable FF vote

Well there wasn't a whole lot left for them to cut. They talk about front loading the budget well farmers had their element of the budget front loaded last year when the government pretty much cut everything it could possibly get away with. There isn't a whole lot left to cut

I suppose the suckler cow scheme was most venerable to be axed but thankfully that survived

It's a pity they wouldn't take the same axe to the levels of bull**** beuracracy that they're making us endure

Tipp Man

Just to confirm I assume the 36m cut in reps is relating to people who are finishing reps 3 and is not a cut in the rate, anybody confirm???

Tipp Man

trevor_matode wrote: »

Sites will be even harder to sell, not that I've sold any in the last 24months (I'm in east Galway).

That 1% Stamp duty across the board means 2nd-hand houses now become much cheaper relative to new builds.

This is the farmers being silently screwed by the Govt, they have devalued our land big-time. :mad:

To be honest I can't really agree with this. I think the stamp duty is probably a good change.

Just how many sites were you planning on selling? IMO it is foolish to even consider a site as a potential asset now, the demand is just not there

vanderbadger

Tipp Man wrote: »

Just to confirm I assume the 36m cut in reps is relating to people who are finishing reps 3 and is not a cut in the rate, anybody confirm???

so when my REPS 3 finished next sept does that mean I will have to wait till the following year to apply for aeos should it still be around by then ?

trevor_matode

Tipp Man wrote: »

To be honest I can't really agree with this. I think the stamp duty is probably a good change.

Just how many sites were you planning on selling? IMO it is foolish to even consider a site as a potential asset now, the demand is just not there

yeah you're right. It is foolish to value sites at a 2006 price at least.
But a site is an asset, just hard to know what it's worth without offering it for sale. Still, without sounding disrespectfull, another hard winter will throw up a few more executor's sales, we'll see the open-market price of mixed grazing land then.

The new stamp duty has for sure made land values go down. When a value goes down (and I ignore what the eejits say in the journal), its bad if you're selling now and good if you're buying now, isn't it? Maybe you're buying, and I'm happy for you if you are.

And to answer your question on how many sites I'm selling, I'm the same as everyone else: it's just the one, of course, (until that sale is completed.)

Tipp Man

trevor_matode wrote: »

yeah you're right. It is foolish to value sites at a 2006 price at least.
But a site is an asset, just hard to know what it's worth without offering it for sale. Still, without sounding disrespectfull, another hard winter will throw up a few more executor's sales, we'll see the open-market price of mixed grazing land then.

The new stamp duty has for sure made land values go down. When a value goes down (and I ignore what the eejits say in the journal), its bad if you're selling now and good if you're buying now, isn't it? Maybe you're buying, and I'm happy for you if you are.

And to answer your question on how many sites I'm selling, I'm the same as everyone else: it's just the one, of course, (until that sale is completed.)

Well the site is only an assets if you can sell it as a site, otherwise it's only agri land. Given the current housing slump the demand for sites, in my area anyway, is simply non existent so no point in even thinking about site values

Given that the number of sites going to sold next year will be tiny, regardless of stamp duty changes, it's really hard to see how your much worse off. The huge stock of vacant housing in the country will ensure site prices will remain low for a long time

In fact it could be argued that this change will get houses selling again, the stock of empty houses falls, prices rise, or stop falling, and building a house becomes a more viable option again so demand for sites increases again

blue5000

irishh_bob wrote: »

this isnt in anyway meant to sound anti farmer but farmers are among the voting blocks who fianna fail feel they can hang on to in the upcoming election which is why ( IMO ) farmers along with the public sector and of course pensioners ( the most loyal of all FF voters ) have been shielded from cuts

i think FF will do much better than polls are suggesting in the coming election , farmers are traditional and conservative , they vote along family lines in a lot of cases , add to that the fact that they only vote for two parties ( farmers in monaghan excluded ) and you still have a sizeable FF vote

Actually it could be because ff didn't want to antagonise the farming community, they know that we are still a powerful lobby group, very capable of protesting on the streets in a highly organized way.

The day of people blindly voting en masse for ff I hope is gone.

Pharaoh1

vanderbadger wrote: »

so when my REPS 3 finished next sept does that mean I will have to wait till the following year to apply for aeos should it still be around by then ?

I'm in the same position finished REPS 3 on Sept 1 2011.
I think the deadline was in May last year so that could be the situation again.
They might open it up and close it when the applications are getting close to the 10,000

BeeDI

irishh_bob wrote: »

this isnt in anyway meant to sound anti farmer but farmers are among the voting blocks who fianna fail feel they can hang on to in the upcoming election which is why ( IMO ) farmers along with the public sector and of course pensioners ( the most loyal of all FF voters ) have been shielded from cuts

i think FF will do much better than polls are suggesting in the coming election , farmers are traditional and conservative , they vote along family lines in a lot of cases , add to that the fact that they only vote for two parties ( farmers in monaghan excluded ) and you still have a sizeable FF vote

Dead right in your summary. Watching Lenihan vs Michael Noonan on primetime last night, I couldn't help but think that Noonans constant argument on more downsizing of the PS was loosing votes for FG every time he opened his mouth.
I'm not affiliated to any party and certainly believe FF need a colling off period in oposition, but if they ditch BIFFO, I reckon they will see nowhere near the melt down predicted for them.
Whatever happens we need to keep Labor as small as possible with their preferred option of higher taxes and lower cut backs ............ as for the Shinners ............... things are bad enough, but can you just imagine the Marxist economic lunacy they would follow:(

irishh_bob

blue5000 wrote: »

Actually it could be because ff didn't want to antagonise the farming community, they know that we are still a powerful lobby group, very capable of protesting on the streets in a highly organized way.

The day of people blindly voting en masse for ff I hope is gone.

i assure you its not

irishh_bob

BeeDI wrote: »

Dead right in your summary. Watching Lenihan vs Michael Noonan on primetime last night, I couldn't help but think that Noonans constant argument on more downsizing of the PS was loosing votes for FG every time he opened his mouth.
I'm not affiliated to any party and certainly believe FF need a colling off period in oposition, but if they ditch BIFFO, I reckon they will see nowhere near the melt down predicted for them.
Whatever happens we need to keep Labor as small as possible with their preferred option of higher taxes and lower cut backs ............ as for the Shinners ............... things are bad enough, but can you just imagine the Marxist economic lunacy they would follow:(

i used to like lennehan ( up to six months ago ) and like a lot of people felt sorry for him in terms of health and the fact that he was given a poision challace in finance but the last six months have prooven to me that lennehan is a spoofer of the highest order , a terrific salesman of a lousy product , his figures on anglo a year ago were around a fifth of what they turned out to be in reality , his guarentee of the banks ( including bondholders ) will turn out to be the worst descision in the history of the state , the man has no credibility whatsoever now with a huge number of people

as for michael noonan ,i rate him highly and wish he was FG leader instead of kenny , hes a hard tough charecther and my opinion of his exchange the other night was that he floored lennehan ( who looked tired ) several times

fianna fail have done more damage to the country - economy in the past number of years than labour ever could have and i say that as someone who wouldnt vote labour if my life depended on it , sinn fein would have the state running everything were they in power but im still not sure they would saddle us with the debt FF have with thier bank bailout deal

reilig

BeeDI wrote: »

Dead right in your summary. Watching Lenihan vs Michael Noonan on primetime last night, I couldn't help but think that Noonans constant argument on more downsizing of the PS was loosing votes for FG every time he opened his mouth.
I'm not affiliated to any party and certainly believe FF need a colling off period in oposition, but if they ditch BIFFO, I reckon they will see nowhere near the melt down predicted for them.
Whatever happens we need to keep Labor as small as possible with their preferred option of higher taxes and lower cut backs ............ as for the Shinners ............... things are bad enough, but can you just imagine the Marxist economic lunacy they would follow:(

SF wouldn't have us in this mess that we are in if they were in power. They would spend according to our means and we'd have adequate services in the public sector with those means arther than the waste that's there at the moment. Can't see it improving when Labour and FG get in - labour will want to borrow more to keep the public sector going and they won't give a dam about the farmers - are you aware of any of their farming Policies (Neither is anyone else). FG, well by not being able to oust Kenny a few months back, they proved that they are no different to FF in their policies and systems. They proved that their grass roots don't want change or new policies. Vote for them if you want more of the same with new faces.

Locally in the North West, if you want something done, you can be assured that it will me done and double done if you go to your SF County Councillor. With a bit of luck, people will have woken up and recognise that a SF TD for this constituency is the way forward. SF is no longer about IRA and republicanism.

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

SF wouldn't have us in this mess that we are in if they were in power. They would spend according to our means and we'd have adequate services in the public sector with those means arther than the waste that's there at the moment. Can't see it improving when Labour and FG get in - labour will want to borrow more to keep the public sector going and they won't give a dam about the farmers - are you aware of any of their farming Policies (Neither is anyone else). FG, well by not being able to oust Kenny a few months back, they proved that they are no different to FF in their policies and systems. They proved that their grass roots don't want change or new policies. Vote for them if you want more of the same with new faces.

Locally in the North West, if you want something done, you can be assured that it will me done and double done if you go to your SF County Councillor. With a bit of luck, people will have woken up and recognise that a SF TD for this constituency is the way forward. SF is no longer about IRA and republicanism.

Ah relig cop onto your self will ya

Let me tell you what shinners are about tax increase followed by tax increase followed by yet more tax increases

The introductiion of a wealth tax would be inevitable under them, what's the value of your land? Are you prepared to make a large tax payment for it? Thats additional tax by the way, not instead of even higher income tax rates. And what exactly are their agri policies apart from tax all round and leaving the EU?? We won't have to worry about when we'll receive the SFP then I suppose

Shinners numbers simply don't add up, or even close to it. They hardly want any spending cuts, so where is the money going to come from?

How any worker/asset owner in this country can even remotely consider voting for a Marxist/communist party is completly beyond me. And I haven't thrown in the communist phrase lightly here. That's exactly what they are, Adams is a huge admirer of Castro in Cuba and has visited him, ignoring of course his links with the communists in eastern Europe and old Russia where he attended several communist party gatherings

ihatetractors

Maybe a cooling off is required here lads, this isn't the politics forum.


So between income tax rises,loss in reps universal services charge 'thingy' etc, how much more of a percentage will ye loose in income

reilig

Lads, I was only joking. Just trying to see the response

We have no SF councillors in this area. We have 2 FG TD's and 1 ff td. And we have more farmers per head of popluation than most counties in Ireland. So this cr@p about farmers being FF supporters is just personal opinion rather than fact. As well as that, we are the only county in the country not to have a TD at all. All our representing TDs are from Roscommon or Sligo.

I hate feckin politics and politicans. It doesn't really matter what party. If we want a change in faces, we can vote in FG and Labour, but it won't change yesterday's budget or the deep financial crisis that we are in. I vote for the person and not the party. If I don't feel that the person is approachable by me then they won't get my vote.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my rouse. I was just trying to show that coming on to a thread that was started to discuss changes in farming from the budget and then going off on a tangent about your political hates and views is totally pointless and waaaay off topic.
Its not fair that people can come on to every thread in the farming forum and try to turn them into political threads. There's a politics forum FFS.

Can we stick to the topic please!!!!!

pakalasa

Give the man a spoon..:D

Has anyone here actually got their head around the figures. They really are frightening.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Give the man a spoon..:D

Has anyone here actually got their head around the figures. They really are frightening.

We got a print out at work today which details all of the social protection changes (Benefits, Dole, etc) and which details TAX implications.

Basically we calculated that if you earn 30k, expect to lose 25% of it in tax (ie. get 25% of 30k and subtract it from 30k then divide by 52 to calculate your weekly take home pay)

40k is 28%

50k is 30%

The above figures assume that you don't have a pension and are not part of a union.

I know its not directly related to farming, but it will help anyone that has an off farm job.

irishh_bob

reilig wrote: »

SF wouldn't have us in this mess that we are in if they were in power. They would spend according to our means and we'd have adequate services in the public sector with those means arther than the waste that's there at the moment. Can't see it improving when Labour and FG get in - labour will want to borrow more to keep the public sector going and they won't give a dam about the farmers - are you aware of any of their farming Policies (Neither is anyone else). FG, well by not being able to oust Kenny a few months back, they proved that they are no different to FF in their policies and systems. They proved that their grass roots don't want change or new policies. Vote for them if you want more of the same with new faces.

Locally in the North West, if you want something done, you can be assured that it will me done and double done if you go to your SF County Councillor. With a bit of luck, people will have woken up and recognise that a SF TD for this constituency is the way forward. SF is no longer about IRA and republicanism.

sinn fein are even more of a tax and spend party than labour are , sinn fein say they would not make anyone in the public sector redundant

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Ah relig cop onto your self will ya

Let me tell you what shinners are about tax increase followed by tax increase followed by yet more tax increases

The introductiion of a wealth tax would be inevitable under them, what's the value of your land? Are you prepared to make a large tax payment for it? Thats additional tax by the way, not instead of even higher income tax rates. And what exactly are their agri policies apart from tax all round and leaving the EU?? We won't have to worry about when we'll receive the SFP then I suppose

Shinners numbers simply don't add up, or even close to it. They hardly want any spending cuts, so where is the money going to come from?

How any worker/asset owner in this country can even remotely consider voting for a Marxist/communist party is completly beyond me. And I haven't thrown in the communist phrase lightly here. That's exactly what they are, Adams is a huge admirer of Castro in Cuba and has visited him, ignoring of course his links with the communists in eastern Europe and old Russia where he attended several communist party gatherings

sinn fein are one of the last remaining stalanist parties in europe , the quientesential top down party , complete with a huge cult of personality built around the great leader

johnstown

One of the tax calculators should give you an idea of the effect on your income, below is a link to one.

http://download.pwc.com/ie/2011_budget__calculator/index.html

The government mentioned a 6 billion adjustment. 1.5 billion was to come from tax increases and 4.5 billion in cuts. I can see where the 1.5 billion extra is coming in the tax increases. Having not read the whole thing in too much detail, I have yet to see where the 4.5 billion in savings are coming from. I assume the dole cuts etc are lumped in here. Makes me wonder where the remaining 9 billion in future budgets will come from.

snowman707

johnstown wrote: »

The government mentioned a 6 billion adjustment. 1.5 billion was to come from tax increases and 4.5 billion in cuts. I can see where the 1.5 billion extra is coming in the tax increases. Having not read the whole thing in too much detail, I have yet to see where the 4.5 billion in savings are coming from. I assume the dole cuts etc are lumped in here. Makes me wonder where the remaining 9 billion in future budgets will come from.

haven't had much free time over the last 24 hours to read into the small print , if there is any?
but certainly from the headlines i saw as you say I would be worried what is to come over the next couple of years, certainly looked a pre election budget to me.

Tipp Man

reilig wrote: »

Lads, I was only joking. Just trying to see the response

Damn it, I fell for your bait hook line and sinker:D

pakalasa

...and you wonder why people vote for Sinn Fein and the likes.
Doesn't this just make yer blood boil.:mad:

Bailed-out AIB to pay top staff €40m bonus

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bailedout-aib-to-pay-top-staff-euro40m-bonus-2454086.html

johngalway

I wouldn't say Farming got away light at all considering the past couple of years. We were one of the first sectors to do our bit. Only so much blood that can be squeezed from a stone.

(Still wouldn't vote for the shinners)

Tipp Man

pakalasa wrote: »

...and you wonder why people vote for Sinn Fein and the likes.
Doesn't this just make yer blood boil.:mad:

Bailed-out AIB to pay top staff €40m bonus

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bailedout-aib-to-pay-top-staff-euro40m-bonus-2454086.html

to be fair to AIB, and i hate saying that, a precendant was set last year where they were refusing to pay bonuses that were written in contracts. The employees took it to the Labour Court (or maybe the high court, can't remember which) and the court ruled the bonuses had to be paid

So in this circumstance they are simply doing as instructed by a court i would say

Although it is very hard to get the general public to understand

blue5000

those bonuses should be taxed at 95%

johngalway

I heard on the radio, and I may be corrected on this, that these bonuses are for 2008? In late 2008 early 2009 I was at a meeting in Maam Cross where two bank managers talked. No one had sympathy for them then, and less would have sympathy for them now. These people approved the dumb ass loans that helped get us where we are.

Why do they get bonuses for that someone tell me?

reilig

johngalway wrote: »

.

Why do they get bonuses for that someone tell me?

Bonus is for getting more business into the bank. Most likely by increasing the loan books. Ironic isn't it??

johngalway

reilig wrote: »

Bonus is for getting more business into the bank. Most likely by increasing the loan books. Ironic isn't it??

I guess the HSE equivalent is how many patients a consultant can kill in a year then :pac:

5live

Tipp Man wrote: »

to be fair to AIB, and i hate saying that, a precendant was set last year where they were refusing to pay bonuses that were written in contracts. The employees took it to the Labour Court (or maybe the high court, can't remember which) and the court ruled the bonuses had to be paid

So in this circumstance they are simply doing as instructed by a court i would say

Although it is very hard to get the general public to understand

The court didnt rule on it. AIB didnt contest the case so it was won by default:(

BeeDI

5live wrote: »

The court didnt rule on it. AIB didnt contest the case so it was won by default:(

Sometimes you cannot win. I would imagine that the legal advice to AIB was, you are contractually obliged to pay. If you go to court and challenge that fact, you will loose.
So AIB, decided not to waste even more money, by going to court and loosing. So they got pasted for not going to court.
On the otherhand, if the media found out AIB had been advised NOT to go to court, and they DID go to court and lost, the headlines would be "Bankers waste €xxxxx on legal advice, by ignoring it" :cool:

5live

BeeDI wrote: »

Sometimes you cannot win. I would imagine that the legal advice to AIB was, you are contractually obliged to pay. If you go to court and challenge that fact, you will loose.
So AIB, decided not to waste even more money, by going to court and loosing. So they got pasted for not going to court.
On the otherhand, if the media found out AIB had been advised NOT to go to court, and they DID go to court and lost, the headlines would be "Bankers waste €xxxxx on legal advice, by ignoring it" :cool:

You mean like our beloved government? Rrriiiiggghhhtt... Screwed if you do and screwed if you dont. Tis' a great country to be sure begorrah:o