Panorama Doc - 'Addicted to Games'

Sabre0001

Did anyone catch this last night on BBC? Repeated again on Friday I believe...

I missed most of it - caught a middle part but just going to watch it later. No delicious irony though: wasn't playing games at the time

The bit I did catch, I didn't think much of. There are people addicted to games; perhaps they are addictive as a source of entertainment (but then again, how many people just stick on the TV for hours on end).

Now, why didn't I like it: what I saw didn't use balance and used statistics that appeared to help sway a certain side.

Example: 66% of children between the ages of 5 and 16 own a console.
My response: Quite likely - DS, Wii -> Aimed at children and parents who buy them for kids so they can all spend time with each other. Scare mongering.

Example: Went to S. Korea and walked into a PC bang (café). Said to the camera - it's a Saturday evening and they are playing games rather than going for a drink or to a nightclub
My response: Yes, SO much better! Replace one addiction with another. Plus, if they're all hanging out in PC bangs, that may be their form of socialising.


He didn't seem to understand his subject at times. He said that in the UK, we primarily play on consoles but that may change with better internet access - what? Essentially, he was equating online gaming and gaming addiction to PCs - where it is more known for admittingly thanks to World of Warcraft and other MMORPGs stories.

Your views?

Canis Lupus

I'm in two minds about it. For myself I have played alot of WoW and Eve and they can take over your life a bit. You start thinking to youself why should I go out and drink when I can have a cheap night in.

But repeat that too much and you fall into a pattern of doing it. Soon people just stop asking you out and you struggle to think of the last time you had a meaningful conversation with anyone outside of work

I think games provide much more of an incentive to fall into this pattern. I've never ever passed on a night out in order to catch the latest episode of Dr Who but I've not enough fingers and toes to count how many times I passed on nights out so I could level a ****ing druid.

Kiith

I play a lot of games, and have for years. I'll sit down and play the console or pc most evenings, as it's something that i enjoy. It's not an addiction though, it's a hobby. There's a big difference. If i'm out with friends or doing something else that i enjoy, i'm not sitting there thinking i wish i was at home playing a game. And i don't get withdrawel symptoms if i don't get to play for a while. I might look forward to it, but it's not going to affect my personality.

chin_grin

Found myself shouting at the TV for most of this! Was a cocktail of lazy researching and BS scaremongering.

They chose one (or two) MMORPGs with a CoD game and ran amok with them. I don't play any online RPGs but I can sympathise with those who get hooked. The way it was put across though was VERY patronising to someone who would know the industry or even a casual gamer.

I expected Chris Morris to pop up in a segment drinking Mountain Dew and shouting abuse at kids on a headset!

Agricola

The lack of balance was a joke. I mean grabbing a games industry suit and putting him in front of the camera to defend the games he makes money from, is the same in Joe Public's eyes as getting the CEO of a big tobacco company to defend smoking!
They needed to have some normal gamers on it, playing some normal games. Not just titles like WOW which are already well established as a huge time sink for many people.

The whole premise is rubbish anyway. As long as there are pastimes that people enjoy then there will always be people who go too far. Chocolate and other junk foods are directly linked to childhood obesity. Does that mean we should hammer Cadburys and Nestlé and blame them for the worlds problems!

By the way, lol @ the idea of PC Bangs being the sign of things to come on British or Irish shores. That would require such a huge cultural shift its ridiculous.

Grumpypants

In fairness it is a show about gaming addiction not gaming so its not going to be balanced. I must have a look at it later but im sure its the same old garbage of a tiny % of people who get addicted to a certain lifestyle. Ive a friend who is addicted to doing exercise but i dont see any TV shows about that.

Im addicted to games i dont think it has done me any harm and doesn't affect my normal everyday life, only the other day i was out for a nice walk ate some mushrooms and jumped on some turtles.

Zero-Cool

I was flicking around and saw a guy saying he was addicted to games until his dad through his console out the window. He then went onto say it's a serious issue and he only plays games at a friends house because he doesn't trust himself to play them on his own. Oh, he also advises people to put down the joypad and go out and get 'SMASHED' with your friends.

1st, I shouted at the TV 'You pathetic Bas*ard!!!', then I turned it off because any programs that encourages you to get smashed instead of playing games is just very bad tv.

Such a pathetic bas*ard :mad:

I really don't know why he made me so angry, he just did!

Headshot

Duggy747

Gonna give this a watch tonight but I can already imagine the type of balance that will be on display judging by the above posts.

Heh, I know a guy who's friend is obsessed with Counter Strike, never shut up about it when he talked to me.............like I gave a shìt. I don't even play CS. :pac:

I drew the line with him when we were at a night-club. We were sitting down and I was admiring all the lovely girls coming in & out of the entrance. Next thing he leans over the table to me and begins talking about Counter Strike.............again. I told him to shut up and drink his beer (half-politely)

Last I heard of him he was spending all his money creating CS Lan parties every weekend.

Sabre0001

Posted this over in Starcraft too - really interesting watch. Depending on your viewpoint both Day[9] and his brother Tasteless (now a professional commentator in Korea) could be regarded as addicted. Though before one tournament, Day[9] does 14 hour day preparations so perhaps But I suppose traditional sports stars do a lot of prep too.

Interesting documentary (more a speech / conversation) but word of warning, it is two hours long! Provides a better balance though - talks about the highs and lows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJztfsXKcPQ

There are some interesting gaming documentaries out there (and eSports documentaries) and I think most of them provide a better and more balanced view.

Ross_Mahon

Sabre0001 wrote: »

There are some interesting gaming documentaries out there (and eSports documentaries) and I think most of them provide a better and more balanced view.

Second Skin and Frag were really good, I kind of felt bad about gaming for once, And thought to myself 'I will never become like that'

Heres the documentary from last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1yYKdTdGdY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpNtOH05jM

YouSavedMyLife

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

Second Skin and Frag were really good, I kind of felt bad about gaming for once, And thought to myself 'I will never become like that'

Heres the documentary from last night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1yYKdTdGdY

[/url]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOpNtOH05jM

I gotta agree with the doc. I played WOW for like 2 or 3 years and it is addictive, or i have an addictive personality blah blah. I hate when people say this and that aint addictive its just said person has an addicitive personality, what a load of shoite. Anyway back on topic. Some times i would be playing WOW on days off from the moment i wake up till the early hours of the next morning. Thats like 11am - 7am next morning. It sucks you in like no other game i have played before. I had my girlfriend playing it and she doesnt play games... The pull of this game is that ****ing strong. The reason i quit was my monitor broke (from overuse maybe :P) and about 1 month later i picked up another monitor logged back into the game and my guild had kinda merged and **** and disbanded so I ****ing quit. THE FORCE OF WILL!! On the more casual console gaming to get my fix now. From Heroin to Cocaine.

Bonavox

I actually love how incorrect this documentary is.

• He refers the midnight launch of "Starcraft." Not "StarCraft II, the sequel to one of the biggest strategy games ever." Just "Starcraft."
• He calls Call of Duty the biggest selling game in Britain. Um ... which one? There are seven, y'know.
• He interviews a woman who beats her child for playing games, yet asserts that the actual games are the real evil.
• His solution to gamers in Korea? Go out and get pissed in a nightclub on a Friday night instead of playing games.
• He only acknowledges the fact that videogame addiction isn't an official medical problem after someone from the industry actually says it. Then he has the nerve to say he's only right to a certain degree. No, Rowe, he's 100% right, actually.
• He then warns parents about the "powerful psychological pulls" that game developers use in games. What did they turn out to be? Extra lives, equipment and in-game goodies for doing stuff right. Mechanics for a good game, basically.

Not only was this one-sided, but it's completely uninformed, it wasn't researched, it's incorrect on so many levels and basically isn't worth the time of day.

Carl.Gustav

Is there any ironing here - a tv program about games addiction,

I didn't get to watch it because my sister had

neighbours
home and away
emerdale
corrie
eastenders

already lined up 0o

Carl.Gustav

I just started watching the link above and the first thing he said was

'half of all UK homes have at least one computer games console'

There's no such thing, I guess thats a good start ...

krudler

Lets think, have I ever been threatened by a WoW player at 2am on a Saturday out on the streets? yup going out getting drunk is clearly the better alternative to playing games.

Nehaxak

krudler wrote: »

Lets think, have I ever been threatened by a WoW player at 2am on a Saturday out on the streets? yup going out getting drunk is clearly the better alternative to playing games.

Those Dwarves are little bastards though, 3 of them jumped me outside Org a few days ago and broke my nose :mad:

Jumpy

Panorama is Rock Bottom from the Simpsons.

"BUT EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON DOES IT"

richymcdermott

Better having people playing games than outside doing drugs

Leopardi

Carl.Gustav wrote: »

Is there any ironing here - a tv program about games addiction,

I didn't get to watch it because my sister had

neighbours
home and away
emerdale
corrie
eastenders

already lined up 0o

Ha! Don't forget the choice selection of mind-numbing American pap, which is "loike OMG, loike so cool, loike" that is presumably a healthier alternative for the supposedly empty minds of impressionable youth.

Jazzy

i think you will find neighbours is the best program ever

Canis Lupus

richymcdermott wrote: »

Better having people playing games than outside doing drugs

It's often fun to combine those two activities :P

richymcdermott

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It's often fun to combine those two activities :P

lol :P

Retr0gamer

As poorly researched as the program was it did raise some valid points and the psychology side of things was well researched. It wasn't scare mongering really against games but there are certain people that do get addicted to these games and it should be recognised and perhaps games companies should take more responsibility whenit comes to making online games and MMO's. It pretty obvious games like CoD and WoW include elements that are used to in gambling to get people addicted.

koHd

The doc itself was too short to really go into any kind of detail. So of course it's going to have it's flaws. But there is certainly a debate to be had about games and addiction. It does need to be monitored. Especially in the age of Facebook gaming and MMO's.

There is big money rewards for online 'games' that can get people addicted (large numbers of people under your influence for micro transactions and advertising). So obviously there will be a business man briefing his development team on making their next online game as addictive as possible.

Some developers argue that people become addicted to games that are good. So you are asking developers to stop making good games? I think they know this isn't true and are just trying to cover up the obvious. Good games are engrosing, but the mechanics that lead to addiction (leveling and rewards) and not required to make a good game. They are required to make an addictive game.

There was a very good post on GameSpot recently about this exact subject. One developer made a Facebook 'game' in which the 'player' simply had to click on a cow at set intervals during the day. You could only click once at the set time and then had to wait until the next opportunity to click. As a reward for clicking the cow, you got upgrades to make your cow look different. If you missed a turn, you missed the click, and the reward.

This 'game' was made as a mockery of Facebook gaming in general, but apparently people oblivious to this were playing and it was a success.

I would like to see less games with addiction as the main incentive, so it's definitely time to have proper scientific research into the area of video game addiction. Then there can be some proper regulations and we can get better games that are engrossing, not addictive.

Carl.Gustav wrote: »

Is there any ironing here - a tv program about games addiction,

I didn't get to watch it because my sister had

neighbours
home and away
emerdale
corrie
eastenders

already lined up 0o

Definitely no ironing going on with all that lot on the tele for the wimmins! And I need my shirt nice and fresh for my ten hours of gaming online tomorrow! :mad:

veXual

I find you can often negate these arguments about people being addicted to computer games by posing the question of how much tv do people watch in a week.

Bonavox

Carl.Gustav wrote: »

I just started watching the link above and the first thing he said was

'half of all UK homes have at least one computer games console'

There's no such thing, I guess thats a good start ...

What do you mean there's no such thing?

Branoic

Bonavox wrote: »

What do you mean there's no such thing?

Technically, there's no such thing as a "computer games console".

"Computer" implies a PC. The xbox and ps3 etc are just "games consoles".

Bonavox

Branoic wrote: »

Technically, there's no such thing as a "computer games console".

"Computer" implies a PC. The xbox and ps3 etc are just "games consoles".

Technically they're "game" consoles, not plural. Sometimes people can get a little over technical. :rolleyes:

Kinetic^

Bonavox wrote: »

• He refers the midnight launch of "Starcraft." Not "StarCraft II, the sequel to one of the biggest strategy games ever." Just "Starcraft."

Bonavox wrote: »

Technically they're "game" consoles, not plural. Sometimes people can get a little over technical. :rolleyes:

Yeah they can.

Bonavox

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Yeah they can.

If you're referring to me being over technical with the SC thing, look at the bigger picture. He's making out that hundreds of gamers arrive at a shop in the middle of the night to buy some stupid game. If he actually justified his visit by at least saying it was a game in development for years, and the sequel to a blockbuster entertainment title, I might be a little more forgiving.

koHd

Bonavox wrote: »

If you're referring to me being over technical with the SC thing, look at the bigger picture. He's making out that hundreds of gamers arrive at a shop in the middle of the night to buy some stupid game. If he actually justified his visit by at least saying it was a game in development for years, and the sequel to a blockbuster entertainment title, I might be a little more forgiving.

I think you're missing the point. Those kind of details are not important. Non gamers just think the fact people are standing that long in such a long line for a game (or anything that isn't a necessity or in short supply) a bit crazy.

Trying to justify it with details of how long the game is in development just makes you sound crazier, to them.

noodler

I certainly was more obsessed with certain games as a kid.

I could play RPGs for hours, 100%them etc but I mean they end so thats the end of that.

Online? I guess Command and Conquer RA2 on the PC is the game which took the most of my time as a kid.

These kids just need more hobbies, part-time jobs etc - variation is the key here in my opinion. I do note a certain letargicness in kids these days that didn't exist to the same extent for my generation.

If I was a parent right now - I seriously doubt I'd let the kid have a TV in his/her room.

Bonavox

koHd wrote: »

I think you're missing the point. Those kind of details are not important. Non gamers just think the fact people are standing that long in such a long line for a game (or anything that isn't a necessity or in short supply) a bit crazy.

Trying to justify it with details of how long the game is in development just makes you sound crazier, to them.

And why do you think that? People are under the influence that gamers wildly stand in line for some stupid game because they're addicted. These documentaries make no effort to look at both sides of the fence. And in music, films etc. development time is a big factor to consider. Should games be any different?

koHd

noodler wrote: »

I certainly was more obsessed with certain games as a kid.

I could play RPGs for hours, 100%them etc but I mean they end so thats the end of that.

Online? I guess Command and Conquer RA2 on the PC is the game which took the most of my time as a kid.

These kids just need more hobbies, part-time jobs etc - variation is the key here in my opinion. I do note a certain letargicness in kids these days that didn't exist to the same extent for my generation.

If I was a parent right now - I seriously doubt I'd let the kid have a TV in his/her room.

I had a tele in my room from the age of 8. I remember staying up later than usual one night playing Batman on the NES with the sound turned off thinking I was great. But we had those doors with the clear glass at the top. Door was launched open and I got an earfull within twenty minutes.

I didn't try it again for a few years.

When I did do it again the same result came.

So its down to the parents to be parents.

I won't stop my kids having fun in their room during normal hours. But like my parents, I'll monitor it.

koHd

Bonavox wrote: »

And why do you think that? People are under the influence that gamers wildly stand in line for some stupid game because they're addicted. These documentaries make no effort to look at both sides of the fence. And in music, films etc. development time is a big factor to consider. Should games be any different?

The people that think you're crazy for standing in line late at night for a long time for a game, will also think the same about a movie or music.

indough

and theyd be right then, too. not being able to wait till the morning to play a game/read a book/watch a movie is slightly childish behaviour. not an automatic sign of addiction but still not something to be proud of. i suppose just popping down to get it isnt quite as bad but actually queing up for a significant length of time is a bit sad really

Branoic wrote: »

Technically, there's no such thing as a "computer games console".

"Computer" implies a PC. The xbox and ps3 etc are just "games consoles".

dont know what has led you to believe this. a console is still technically a computer so there was really nothing wrong with the original statement

Sisko

Saw it and thought it was terrible, highly disapointed by it. Packed with ignorance as usual.

I'm sick of non gamers talking about these things. Should be a guy who actually understands and plays games doing these documentaries. You don't get someone whos never watched a film to do a documentary on the violence in movies.

Theres so much ignorance out there with regards to gaming from people who don't play.

To me its amazing to think about it. We live in odd times, the fact of the matter is. Gaming is here to stay. Not only that but its only a matter of time before its viewed the same way as cinema, tv books and sports as entertainment.... by everyone. This is an inevitability.

But for the time being we still have tons of people who refuse to acknowledge to even think about gaming as something like that and instead STILL view them ignorantly as:

Shallow, mindless waste of time.

Childish and only for kids.

So violent it will turn people into killers

A menace


Theres still ignorant stigmas attached to gaming and as a result all these non gamers wont even try gaming, they wont go near it. Not even curious.

Here we have a new form of entertainment that's beginning to eclipse cinema and so many still wont go near it out of ignorance.

"Oh I'm 40, way to old for these 'video games'.."

Oh yeah your 40, you've another half a life time a head of you, so your going to never even try this revolutionary form of entertainment and interactivity because you have ignorant opinions on it? Yeah thats mature. Meanwhile theres more progressive people of all ages trying out this form of entertainment to decide for themselves instead what idiotic tv programs like this one decide for them.

At the end this eejit concludes "I will definitely keep a closer eye on my boy as he plays these (evil) video games (that I don't understand)".

Keep a closer eye on him? You've just gone around the world making a documentary on videos games and yet it STILL doesn't occur to you to .. I dunno. JOIN HIM , PLAY WITH YOUR SON?????????? That way keeping an eye on him and actually LEARNING SOMETHING.

Again its like a journalist making a documentary on violent movies who's never watched a movie. You think , being a proper journalist and all, he's at least WATCH ONE MOVIE for the sake of making a more informed documentary?

'Nooooooooooo they're for kids, I don't need to try them to judge them'


Idiot.

I look forward to the day a proper documanrty on gaming comes out designed to inform the ignorant on what it is they're actually missing out on.

tonydude

indough wrote: »

and theyd be right then, too. not being able to wait till the morning to play a game/read a book/watch a movie is slightly childish behaviour. not an automatic sign of addiction but still not something to be proud of. i suppose just popping down to get it isnt quite as bad but actually queing up for a significant length of time is a bit sad really

When last years cod mw2 came out, the only time i could collect my preordered copy was by collecting at the midnight launch. I was in a small queue for 5 minutes but i was embarassed to be there and would never actually line up for a game like that again.

In relation to this doc, i forgot to watch it but my brother sky +'d it and did so just to throw gaming addiction in my face, The doc was so bias and probably didnt relate to any normal gamer

Mr E

I watched this a few days ago. The main thing that stood out for me was how utterly bored and uninterested the reporter seemed to be.

Mark Hamill

I watched some of the documentary and thought that addiction had fairly obvious origins.
In terms of South Korea, you have a society where cheap online gaming is available everywhere, so cheap that it has ousted going to a pub/club as young peoples weekend activity of choice. Despite the implications of the documentary, this isn't that much of an issue for most young people in South Korea, the ones that extreme reactions or actions (like the couple whose baby starved) where reported as having low intelligence (in the documentary) and the people interviewed admitted to being depressed and with nothing else to do.

As for the English kids? They just had **** parents. When I was a kid, I would have rather stayed at home and gone to school, but if I had a tantrum I would have got a thick ear for my troubles. Parents hsould know what their kids are up to, pure and simple. A parent not knowing that their kid is playing games 16 hours a day is no better than a parent not knowing where their kids are.

Video games are addictive, and more and more video games are using known addiction psychology in order to make their games more addictive, but the choices and personality of the person playing the game are still by far the biggest decider in whether or not they actually get addicted. Its up to people to stand up and take responsibility for their lives (or their kids lives) and quite looking for something else to blame (that goes for any addiction too).

koHd

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Video games are addictive, and more and more video games are using known addiction psychology in order to make their games more addictive, but the choices and personality of the person playing the game are still by far the biggest decider in whether or not they actually get addicted. Its up to people to stand up and take responsibility for their lives (or their kids lives) and quite looking for something else to blame (that goes for any addiction too).

This last bit is the thing I was talking about. Certain games are made to get you addicted. They'll never admit this though.

But until there is proper research done it can't be monitored and managed properly by the industry.

UberPrinny_Baal

I didn't click on the Youtube links because uninformed anti-game rants generally make my blood boil.

A couple of points about gaming I generally rattle off in these kinds of conversations:

- Gaming doesn't alter your physical body (like booze), or make you dependant on a foreign substance (like cigarettes); so I don't believe you can be physically addicted to gaming. I think a massive gaming addiction that is detrimental to your life is probably more similar to the weirder addictions, like shopoholics (i.e. it's just YOU).

- Gaming is a valid hobby. You spend some spare cash and time on it, and have fun. If anyone comes along to the monthly Dublin Street Fighter tournaments, they run at €15 for a whole day of game playing/tournament fun. What's that, like three pints? Half a round in the pub? You meet and socialise with people who have similar interests, just like any hobby.

I think games are a weirdly easy target for the "scare media", and they tend to become the focus of a story even if their involvement was peripheral or non-existent.

We've all seen the news stories.

My favourite paraphrasing of this comes from a Penny Arcade strip:

"12 year old kills younger brother in video game re-enactment?" How about "Crappy parents raise stupid kids."

Sabre0001

Dear Panorama

Video games were not responsible for some idiot trying to open my front door this morning (5 in the morning) for 15 minutes before being led away by the Guards despite ample warning...All the nerds are locked indoors somewhere socialising with friends / randomers, griefing strangers, questing or just enjoying themselves.

Instead, it was that other substance that people should be partaking in according to your documentary.

Kind Regards,
A very awake...but tired...me

Crasp

For me it's like anything, I obsess over it for days, weeks, playing for 2/3 of the day only stopping to eat and toilet myself. Then I just get bored of it and move on!

I'm not a fan of gaming really, I believe one should spend their lives doing more productive things. I don't even own a console. I own Halo for PC, F1 97 and F1 2010... that's it!

Optimalprimerib

I was really disappointed in this. I was hoping that they would show what methods developers use to make the games addictive, but instead it looked at the impact on the lives of addicts. Which has been done to death.

I accepted that it would be unbalanced, but any watchdog show about games normally get heavy criticism from the gaming public for not having the proper research or respect for the industry. This was no different.
I would love if one of these documentarys was made for gamers who already understand the industry instead of the usual hand holding of the already fearful and ignorant.

Loved the final line of the cod player. Dont play games. If you want to play, call a friend and go out and get smashed instead.