Lucinda to vote for Budget

rodento

Sould be interesting to see how this is played out, may even hear something from Enda :eek:

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/fg-rebel-lucinda-set-to-risk-career-to-see-budget-passed-2449905.html

Beginning to think that between Richard and Lucinda, the country could be safe hands:D

uberwolf

if by vote you mean abstain?

Avns1s

Now that Healy-Rae and Lowry have declared themselves as voting with the government, she would be a foolish little girl to out herself outside of the FG party with an election just round the corner. No need for it in my opinion.

Long term, I don't see Lucinda as being in any party. She lacks the discipline and ability to toe a line coupled with a team spirit that is required. As an independent, it is unlikely that she will achieve a lot in the medium to long term at this stage given the likely formation of the next government.

Sir Oxman

She's going to vote for something she hasn't read?
I see.

rodento

uberwolf wrote: »

if by vote you mean abstain?

In my book, if she doesn't vote agains't the Budget, its as good as a vote for

Dirk Gently

Endas ace in the hole just in case the Gov need a dig out to get the budget passed.

later12

Lucinda Creighton once had the realistic ambition to be Taoiseach of this country has become very disillusioned with national politics.
If she continues to be as frustrated as she is with the system, she probably won't be in politics in five years; considering the absolutely shocking behaviour of the fine gael parliamentary party in the last two and a half years, I don't blame her.

Her stance on the 2011 budget is just symptomatic of her general ill ease with the political process. She is a bit of a kamikaze politician these days. Sometimes you need that, but i really wish she didn't have to be such a lone ranger and that she had the wider public support of her colleagues.

maynooth_rules

At least show some balls and vote one way or the other. It would be the actions of a coward to abstain

Sand

Good for Lucinda Creighton - we need more politicians willing to have an opinion and to take a national line on things rather than just being a faceless sheep who takes orders from the party whip.

Unfortunately shes not in my constituency so I cant reward her with a vote.

Shes explained her views on her website - extract:

We face an enormous challenge right now. People are rightly furious with this Government. They want retribution and they want it now. Labour and Sinn Fein have fed off this anger in recent months. They have been competing in the anger stakes for some time now. I can understand that people will identify with such sentiment, but surely what we need now is not short term populism, opportunism and manufactured anger. What we need are cool heads, truth and rational solutions. Anger will not save the country. It may make us feel better, but surely we need something more?

Now I don’t pretend to have all the answers to our economic crisis, but I do think that shouting angrily across the Dáil chamber is no solution. Every member of the Dáil must reflect on what would be achieved by voting against the Budget. Sure, we will all outflank each other on the angry stakes. We can thump the table and clap ourselves on the back for giving Fianna Fail their just deserts. But what are the implications for our country? I believe Dessie O’Malley is right. We will be catapulted into a further downward spiral, further wrecking our international reputation and generating more uncertainty for people who are already terrified about the financial situation for themselves and their families next year.

I think most people would share her disdain for the "anger as a strategy" offered by Labour and the childish squabbling in the Dail. So, when a politician decides to reject anger as a strategy, I think its to be welcomed. You might disagree on if the country is best served by passing or rejecting this budget, but if this budget is rejected, Fine Gael and Labour will simply have to introduce one just like it a few months down the road.

maynooth_rules

Sand wrote: »

Good for Lucinda Creighton - we need more politicians willing to have an opinion and to take a national line on things rather than just being a faceless sheep who takes orders from the party whip.

Unfortunately shes not in my constituency so I cant reward her with a vote.

But she is abstaining i.e. she is not giving her opinion. Desperate attemp to get publicity i think

Sand

I dont agree with the policy of abstaining - I believe Fine Gael should have offered support for the budget in exchange for a role in planning it and a confirmed date for a general election in early 2011 - but if abstaining will allow the budget to pass, and voting against it will sink it, then Creighton is giving her opinion.

later12

In fairness, by abstaining she is simply giving the message that while she does not actually endorse aspects of the Budget, neither is she going to stand in the way of its resolution, acknowledging that corrective measures are required in some form and that Budget failure would be unhelpful across the Eurozone and would not promote confidence in our economy either.

3DataModem

Sand wrote: »

I dont agree with the policy of abstaining - I believe Fine Gael should have offered support for the budget in exchange for a role in planning it and a confirmed date for a general election in early 2011 - but if abstaining will allow the budget to pass, and voting against it will sink it, then Creighton is giving her opinion.

if FG have such great ideas they should publicise them... it's for the good of the country, right?.... right?

T runner

maynooth_rules wrote: »

At least show some balls and vote one way or the other. It would be the actions of a coward to abstain

No, abstaining is the correct action. As a Fine Gaeler she doesnt agree with the detail of the budget. However, our perilous situation demands that a budget must be passed. Therefore she has little choice but to abstain.

T runner

Avns1s wrote: »

Now that Healy-Rae and Lowry have declared themselves as voting with the government, she would be a foolish little girl to out herself outside of the FG party with an election just round the corner. No need for it in my opinion.

Long term, I don't see Lucinda as being in any party. She lacks the discipline and ability to toe a line coupled with a team spirit that is required. As an independent, it is unlikely that she will achieve a lot in the medium to long term at this stage given the likely formation of the next government.

I disagree. I find it a refreshing show of integrity.

20Cent

Hope Enda kicks her out of the party asap.
Pointless having her in it is she won't vote with it.

later12

20Cent wrote: »

Hope Enda kicks her out of the party asap.
Pointless having her in it is she won't vote with it.

That's what we need, more puppet politicians.

Sheep! Sheep! We need more Sheep!

20Cent

later10 wrote: »

That's what we need, more puppet politicians.

Sheep! Sheep! We need more Sheep!

If she wants to be an independent then be one.
Why join a party and then not vote with it when needed?
If she had any integrity then at least vote for it instead of abstaining, trying to have her cake and eat it.

later12

20Cent wrote: »

If she wants to be an independent then be one.
Why join a party and then not vote with it when needed?

Would you say the same for a FF politician who refused to vote as he was instructed?

Lucinda Creighton's first loyalty is to her country and her constituency; not to the Fine Gael party.
She was elected on a FG ticket, not a FG blank cheque.

super_furry

Putting the National interest ahead of her own? Fair play to her.

20Cent

later10 wrote: »

Would you say the same for a FF politician who refused to vote as he was instructed?

Yes of course.

later10 wrote:

Lucinda Creighton's first loyalty is to her country and her constituency; not to the Fine Gael party.
She was elected on a FG ticket, not a FG blank cheque.

If she believes that it is for the good of the country then she should vote for the budget instead of sitting on the fence. Abstaining means that she can deny supporting it later when the whole thing crashes and burns as it inevitably will.

super_furry

20Cent wrote: »

If she believes that it is for the good of the country then she should vote for the budget instead of sitting on the fence. Abstaining means that she can deny supporting it later when the whole thing crashes and burns as it inevitably will.

Why for the sake of a grand gesture should she lose the party whip? Abstaining will offer the same result of voting for the budget but by voting for it, she would be dumped by Fine Gael and her potential to become a minister in the next government would go.

20Cent

super_furry wrote: »

Why for the sake of a grand gesture should she lose the party whip? Abstaining will offer the same result of voting for the budget but by voting for it, she would be dumped by Fine Gael and her potential to become a minister in the next government would go.

Looks like she might want to run as an independent or else retire. She should be dumped anyway for abstaining, bet she took full advantage of having the party machine behind her and the support that comes from that. Then when actually needed for something she abstains, useless.

the groutch

Sand wrote: »

I dont agree with the policy of abstaining - I believe Fine Gael should have offered support for the budget in exchange for a role in planning it and a confirmed date for a general election in early 2011 - but if abstaining will allow the budget to pass, and voting against it will sink it, then Creighton is giving her opinion.

both FG & Labour made that offer during leader's questions last month, but biffo wasnt interested

unit 1

She's a "class act":D

jmayo

gambiaman wrote: »

She's going to vote for something she hasn't read?
I see.

Because it is getting her publicity and she does crave publicity.

Sand wrote: »

I dont agree with the policy of abstaining - I believe Fine Gael should have offered support for the budget in exchange for a role in planning it and a confirmed date for a general election in early 2011 - but if abstaining will allow the budget to pass, and voting against it will sink it, then Creighton is giving her opinion.

FFS they did and biffo as good as told them "I do it my way".
They have said they support the 6 billion cuts, but not the detail.

If they voted for the budget you would have half the country complaining they shoudl vote aginst it, so that they could get ff out and try and scupper the IMF/ECB deal.

later10 wrote: »

In fairness, by abstaining she is simply giving the message that while she does not actually endorse aspects of the Budget, neither is she going to stand in the way of its resolution, acknowledging that corrective measures are required in some form and that Budget failure would be unhelpful across the Eurozone and would not promote confidence in our economy either.

FFS FG have issued a 4 year plan with the same ultimate figures as ff, but they are proposing cuts in different areas like the overinflated public sector.

As regards saving the Eurozone, ultimately it matters diddly squat becuase the markets now realise they can pick the BPIIGS off one by one.
And when they hit Italy or Spain it is bye bye time for the euro.

super_furry wrote: »

Putting the National interest ahead of her own? Fair play to her.

And we all laughed.
The day lucinda puts anyones or anythings interest ahead of her own then that will be the day.
lucinda is marketing herself as some great new age politican when in fact she a very ambitious average politican who has an overinflated opinion of her own worth.

steelcityblues

I will make my feelings known by her stance when she reaches my doorstep in Rathmines. :rolleyes:

FF's get out of jail card.

nesf

Good for her to be taking the reasonable national line! Going against the easy populist option etc.

Cavehill Red

Add her name to the list of traitors, so.

jimmycrackcorm

Contrast Lucinda Creighton with the Sheep farmer of Kerry and that Bould Gambler Lowry and you can simply see who is thinking in the national interest....

mistermouse

Fair play to her for thinking nationally, whether we like the budget or not, she is looking like a politician with national interest and that is a rarity in this country.

Its hard to fathom that any other political party would have not spent and dealt recklously in the boom to get votes if in power. It does cause issues for Fine Gael, but I reckon they would prefer the budget to go through anyway and blame the last administration rather than put in their own in January/Feb

Either way the political parties should send the message to the ECB and frustrate things a bit, oh wait, they all refused the peoples will during past referendums on Europe so they are hardly likely to convey the nations disgust at been made scapegoats for their mates in Europe this time either

nesf

mistermouse wrote: »

Fair play to her for thinking nationally, whether we like the budget or not, she is looking like a politician with national interest and that is a rarity in this country.

And she could get ****ed over for it come the election. Sometimes I hate this country.

femur61

I admire Lucinda Creighton's stance. But, what about national interest. Beginning to think we are in a deeper hole than we the public know, maybe that is why Lowrey and Healy-Rae gave their support, maybe they were made privy to something we know nothing about.

jimmycrackcorm

steelcityblues wrote: »

I will make my feelings known by her stance when she reaches my doorstep in Rathmines. :rolleyes:

FF's get out of jail card.

Talk about ducking your head in the sand. How is it that people have more interest in opposing FF than with the mammoth financial problem we have?

Whoever is in government next has to deal with the budget anyway, to block it now is simply a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face - even if the nose is pretty ugly.

steelcityblues

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Talk about ducking your head in the sand. How is it that people have more interest in opposing FF than with the mammoth financial problem we have?

Whoever is in government next has to deal with the budget anyway, to block it now is simply a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face - even if the nose is pretty ugly.

She's using a critical national issue to have another go at Enda, because he didn't give her the front-bench appointment she felt so entitled to. The national interest stuff is just spin.

Won't be voting FG at the next election anyway, but its clear as to what's she's up to!

20Cent

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Talk about ducking your head in the sand. How is it that people have more interest in opposing FF than with the mammoth financial problem we have?

Whoever is in government next has to deal with the budget anyway, to block it now is simply a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face - even if the nose is pretty ugly.

FG have proposed a budget which also cuts 6billion out. I presume she has seen this one. Instead she wants the FF one which she has not even seen. From the announcements so far we can see that the FF solution is to hammer the poor. If the budget does not pass then thats another card to play when negotiating with the ECB/IMF, a card we desperately need. Default is inevitable according to most analysts, economists and even the markets know that some default will have to occur. The only people who do not see this are the morons running the country. They want to lock us into this budget and give leave very little wriggle room for the next Gov.
Creighton should vote for or against it. Abstaining is a cop out. If she really believes the FF budget is best then vote for it. Cowardly way out for her, Kenny should drop kick her out of the party asap.

T runner

20Cent wrote: »

FG have proposed a budget which also cuts 6billion out. I presume she has seen this one. Instead she wants the FF one which she has not even seen. From the announcements so far we can see that the FF solution is to hammer the poor.
If the budget does not pass then thats another card to play when negotiating with the ECB/IMF, a card we desperately need.

First of all FG/Lab/SF are going to vote against a Budget they havent even see. So that point is mute.

If we dont pass the budget we dont get ECB/EMF funding and we get a run on the banks. You will go to the ECB with a slighly altered budget and having a far greater hole in the banks to fill.

Default is inevitable according to most analysts, economists and even the markets know that some default will have to occur. The only people who do not see this are the morons running the country.

We have to assume that they see it too. Just because they havent announced it on RTE doesnt mean they dont see it.

They want to lock us into this budget and give leave very little wriggle room for the next Gov.

A budget carrying the first years savings of 6 billion must be passed now.
We will default but to get out of our immediate bank liqudity hole we need it passed. The IMF are in town have you forgotten?

Creighton should vote for or against it. Abstaining is a cop out. If she really believes the FF budget is best then vote for it. Cowardly way out for her, Kenny should drop kick her out of the party asap.

Here are here choices:

A)

Vote aginst the budget and start a run on the banks meaninga nother 10-15 billion goes.



Vote for a budget she does not agree with in detail.

C)

Abstain which satisfies her differences with the budget but also recognises the need for any budget in line with IMF/EU requirements to be passed.

20Cent

T runner wrote: »

First of all FG/Lab/SF are going to vote against a Budget they havent even see. So that point is mute.

If we dont pass the budget we dont get ECB/EMF funding and we get a run on the banks. You will go to the ECB with a slighly altered budget and having a far greater hole in the banks to fill.



We have to assume that they see it too. Just because they havent announced it on RTE doesnt mean they dont see it.




A budget carrying the first years savings of 6 billion must be passed now.
We will default but to get out of our immediate bank liqudity hole we need it passed. The IMF are in town have you forgotten?




Here are here choices:

A)

Vote aginst the budget and start a run on the banks meaninga nother 10-15 billion goes.



Vote for a budget she does not agree with in detail.

C)

Abstain which satisfies her differences with the budget but also recognises the need for any budget in line with IMF/EU requirements to be passed.

Rubbish fear mongering.
She fell for it, like I said a coward.

jimmycrackcorm

20Cent wrote: »

FG have proposed a budget which also cuts 6billion out. I presume she has seen this one. Instead she wants the FF one which she has not even seen.

But no one is voting on the FG budget proposal so you might as well suggest she should vote for the Mexican budget.

From the announcements so far we can see that the FF solution is to hammer the poor.

As a taxpayer I'm going to be losing the equivalent of half my mortgage payment - perhaps you don't think I'm getting hammered?

If the budget does not pass then thats another card to play when negotiating with the ECB/IMF, a card we desperately need.

If you want to play poker then you should make sure you have a string hand... :rolleyes:

Default is inevitable according to most analysts, economists and even the markets know that some default will have to occur. The only people who do not see this are the morons running the country.

Default is the last thing we want nor is it the only option....

They want to lock us into this budget and give leave very little wriggle room for the next Gov.

What's stopping the next government from introducing a different budget after the dpring election? Didn't we have an emergency mid-year budget before now?

Ah - I know what's stopping them from it - it was Gilmore on the Late Late saying he wouldn't undo any cuts that the government would introduce

Creighton should vote for or against it. Abstaining is a cop out. If she really believes the FF budget is best then vote for it. Cowardly way out for her, Kenny should drop kick her out of the party asap.

Is the world black or white? Does your car only go into forward or reverse gears? methinks you are riding the clutch here....