Anyone else skeptical about ability of mental health professionals in Ireland?

decriain

As a 'customer' of such services for a long time, I read the big mental health supplement in the Irish Times recently.

I was disappointed.

No critical self-analysis of the efficacy of their services, or measurement of outcomes. Just a determination to get more people to use them.

I got the sinking feeling that they expect service users to 'rely' on their professionalism. As if they haven't learned that almost every profession in Ireland has been discredited in recent years - from lawyers, to doctors, & more.

So, do we have to wait until there is a scandal or will they be proactive?

I sent in a letter to express my ideas but it wasn;t published. So I sent it on Psychotherapy Ireland and republish it here.

Thoughts?
Or does anyone have the same experience as me?

==



I noticed a key gap in the recent Irish Times supplement about mental health. It did not provide any insight into how mental health professionals - or representative associations such as your own - ensure good standards of practice for prospective patients.

My own experience is that quality is not guaranteed.

Over 15 years I have been referred to four different therapists with varied results. Two of the people I was recommended to see were next to useless. Their approaches were so 'holistic' and fuzzy as to be totally ineffective.

Of course, it may be that I was referred to the wrong type of carer. But if that is so, why did two different GPs fail to make correct suggestions? Why are they ill-informed? Is that reflective of experience in general?

Another member of my family has had similar complaints. He has also attended several therapists and his view is that unless you fit a desired "type" (e.g. "the" repressed middle aged woman, "the" repressed homosexual, etc.) some counsellors are simply not interested. Their lack of empathy shows itself in a mistrust of the symptoms you describe. Unless you can somehow manufacture a 'break-down' in front of them, they do not believe you.

And to be clear, all the people we have seen are accredited by you, the Irish Council for Psychotherapy.

What I am saying is that our experience at the sharp end of mental health care delivery is not wholly positive. While good service is certainly delivered by some (I am personally grateful to a number of professionals) - quality is NOT a guarantee.

Indeed, I now make the starting assumption that such carers are merely well meaning amateurs, who want to help - but thru lack of training, experience or interest - are often unable to assist patients.

This is a real problem.

Some carers are out of their depth and patients are being referred to them that they cannot possibly help. But, of course these unlucky patients may have to spill their guts for 6 weeks (at up to 80 euro a go) before they learn "Sorry, I don't think this is going anywhere (but thanks for the cash)".

What can be done?
Better assessment for one thing.

You should create a mechanism whereby patients can be more accurately targeted at carers.

This is attempted in an ad-hoc manner on your website (http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/) - but is woefully inadequate. If you call to ask for a recommendation, you will get none. You don't want to promote one therapist over another.

How wonderful.

Just like teachers, you want the public to accept that each therapist is as good as the next. But, as with any profession, that is nonsense.

The IT supplement also noted that demand for mental health services is increasing whilst the supply of professionals remains low. This implies that revenue in your industry is growing, i.e. it is getting richer.

You should invest this extra income in patients, in order to offer a free assessment service to people seeking a mental health intervention. I believe marriage counselling services do the same (www.mrcs.ie) by giving couples a free assessment before they recommend a counsellor. Why not copy that model?

Such a measure would encourage uptake of services, remove the onus from GPs to make (often ill-informed) referrals, and most importantly ensure patients receive the right type of care.

Regards

Odysseus

decriain wrote: »

As a 'customer' of such services for a long time, I read the big mental health supplement in the Irish Times recently.

I was disappointed.

No critical self-analysis of the efficacy of their services, or measurement of outcomes. Just a determination to get more people to use them.

I got the sinking feeling that they expect service users to 'rely' on their professionalism. As if they haven't learned that almost every profession in Ireland has been discredited in recent years - from lawyers, to doctors, & more.

So, do we have to wait until there is a scandal or will they be proactive?

I sent in a letter to express my ideas but it wasn;t published. So I sent it on Psychotherapy Ireland and republish it here.

Thoughts?
Or does anyone have the same experience as me?

==



I noticed a key gap in the recent Irish Times supplement about mental health. It did not provide any insight into how mental health professionals - or representative associations such as your own - ensure good standards of practice for prospective patients.

My own experience is that quality is not guaranteed.

Over 15 years I have been referred to four different therapists with varied results. Two of the people I was recommended to see were next to useless. Their approaches were so 'holistic' and fuzzy as to be totally ineffective.

Of course, it may be that I was referred to the wrong type of carer. But if that is so, why did two different GPs fail to make correct suggestions? Why are they ill-informed? Is that reflective of experience in general?

Another member of my family has had similar complaints. He has also attended several therapists and his view is that unless you fit a desired "type" (e.g. "the" repressed middle aged woman, "the" repressed homosexual, etc.) some counsellors are simply not interested. Their lack of empathy shows itself in a mistrust of the symptoms you describe. Unless you can somehow manufacture a 'break-down' in front of them, they do not believe you.

And to be clear, all the people we have seen are accredited by you, the Irish Council for Psychotherapy.

What I am saying is that our experience at the sharp end of mental health care delivery is not wholly positive. While good service is certainly delivered by some (I am personally grateful to a number of professionals) - quality is NOT a guarantee.

Indeed, I now make the starting assumption that such carers are merely well meaning amateurs, who want to help - but thru lack of training, experience or interest - are often unable to assist patients.

This is a real problem.

Some carers are out of their depth and patients are being referred to them that they cannot possibly help. But, of course these unlucky patients may have to spill their guts for 6 weeks (at up to 80 euro a go) before they learn "Sorry, I don't think this is going anywhere (but thanks for the cash)".

What can be done?
Better assessment for one thing.

You should create a mechanism whereby patients can be more accurately targeted at carers.

This is attempted in an ad-hoc manner on your website (http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/) - but is woefully inadequate. If you call to ask for a recommendation, you will get none. You don't want to promote one therapist over another.

How wonderful.

Just like teachers, you want the public to accept that each therapist is as good as the next. But, as with any profession, that is nonsense.

The IT supplement also noted that demand for mental health services is increasing whilst the supply of professionals remains low. This implies that revenue in your industry is growing, i.e. it is getting richer.

You should invest this extra income in patients, in order to offer a free assessment service to people seeking a mental health intervention. I believe marriage counselling services do the same (www.mrcs.ie) by giving couples a free assessment before they recommend a counsellor. Why not copy that model?

Such a measure would encourage uptake of services, remove the onus from GPs to make (often ill-informed) referrals, and most importantly ensure patients receive the right type of care.

Regards

You raise a lot of issue there and to be honest I don't have the time to answer it fully. I will do it in bits, first I'm a psychoanalst, I'm not a carer. I am there to working in a psychological manner, not a carer.

Yes there are issues with bad therapists, anybody can at the moment call themselves one. Most Gps know very little about psychotherapy.

I add as I can, it is the best I can offfer in terms of a response. Others may have more time at the moment, but believe me when you spend you day listening to the stuff I hear, most of us like to switch off at the weekend.

Odysseus

Sticking to the therapy side, training as you now sadly go from sh!te to excellent, the ICP is merely an umberalla group from most of the various psychotherapy bodies. If was to start again in the HSE a person with a dip with start on the money and duties as a person like me who have degree studied in the area and a Masters in it.

Sadly there are lots of professional bodies for therapists, eeach with different entry processess, and they are too busy fighting each other to get a solid group together.

As for therapy if you want a professional find a real psychoanalyst [not psychotherapist] or try you local HSE psych service which is free. More to be added...

krankykitty

Odysseus wrote: »

Sticking to the therapy side, training as you now sadly go from sh!te to excellent, the ICP is merely an umberalla group from most of the various psychotherapy bodies. If was to start again in the HSE a person with a dip with start on the money and duties as a person like me who have degree studied in the area and a Masters in it.

Sadly there are lots of professional bodies for therapists, eeach with different entry processess, and they are too busy fighting each other to get a solid group together.

As for therapy if you want a professional find a real psychoanalyst [not psychotherapist] or try you local HSE psych service which is free. More to be added...

Sorry Odysseus, I know I'm being devils advocate here but you've said that in the HSE you have people working at similar duties to you at diploma level - so what's the guarantee that if I were to approach the HSE services that I'd get someone as qualified as you, and not the person at diploma level? (I will admit I'm not particularly well informed with what the process is with accquiring services through the HSE)

Odysseus

krankykitty wrote: »

Sorry Odysseus, I know I'm being devils advocate here but you've said that in the HSE you have people working at similar duties to you at diploma level - so what's the guarantee that if I were to approach the HSE services that I'd get someone as qualified as you, and not the person at diploma level? (I will admit I'm not particularly well informed with what the process is with accquiring services through the HSE)

Fair question none, referrals just passed on to us.


Edit: If my co-worker is concerned about working with a client, one of our violent one for example, she will discuss it with me. But even though she is a cbt therapist:P, she is very good. sadly in other clinicls I know does not this happens

Sardonicat

What adavantages does a psychoanalyst have over other clinical psychologists?

Odysseus

Sardonicat wrote: »

What adavantages does a psychoanalyst have over other clinical psychologists?

In what way? Can you expand please? I can answer for and against. Just it came across that way I in no way meant one is better than another, we work differently.

Sardonicat

Odysseus wrote: »

As for therapy if you want a professional find a real psychoanalyst [not psychotherapist] or try you local HSE psych service which is free. More to be added...

There are plenty of fully qualified clinical psychologists who are not psychoanalysts, are there not?

Odysseus

Sardonicat wrote: »

There are plenty of fully qualified clinical psychologists who are not psychoanalysts, are there not?

I will always favour my own position=psychoanalysis, thought I did not oppose it to a clinical psych, I say psychotherapist.

Sardonicat

I wonder if it's time to do a sticky thread explaining to lay folk/sevice users, the difference between the different professional titles (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Psychoanalysist, Psychothereapist and any other I've forgotten or not heard about) Maybe there could be a rep from each explaining what they do and how they differ form the others? It can be very confusing for a lay person and the margin for misinunderstanding or unintentionally misleading someone on an internet forum is broad. Forgive me if a thread like this exists already.

krankykitty

Odysseus wrote: »

Edit: If my co-worker is concerned about working with a client, one of our violent one for example, she will discuss it with me. But even though she is a cbt therapist:P, she is very good. sadly in other clinicls I know does not this happens

I wonder is this what the OP was getting at - you could be lucky and be referred to a clinic such as your own, where less qualified staff will avail of consultation/supervision etc to provide a better service - however you could be unlucky and reach another clinic, where you end up with a lesser qualified person. Not that this in itself is necessarily bad, but as you say, could be one who won't seek advice from supervision etc for more difficult cases. Sounds like a lottery to me (similar to psychotherapy??). You either are lucky and get a good therapist (of whatever orientation, with or without a high level of training) or are unlucky and get a bad one.

Odysseus

Sardonicat wrote: »

I wonder if it's time to do a sticky thread explaining to lay folk/sevice users, the difference between the different professional titles (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Psychoanalysist, Psychothereapist and any other I've forgotten or not heard about) Maybe there could be a rep from each explaining what they do and how they differ form the others? It can be very confusing for a lay person and the margin for misinunderstanding or unintentionally misleading someone on an internet forum is broad. Forgive me if a thread like this exists already.

It a great idea and for some parts easy, but then comes the difference between a counsllor and a psychotherapist, never mind a psychoanalyst:eek: I'm open to the idea though, see what the other Mods think?

Odysseus

Sardonicat wrote: »

I wonder if it's time to do a sticky thread explaining to lay folk/sevice users, the difference between the different professional titles (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Psychoanalysist, Psychothereapist and any other I've forgotten or not heard about) Maybe there could be a rep from each explaining what they do and how they differ form the others? It can be very confusing for a lay person and the margin for misinunderstanding or unintentionally misleading someone on an internet forum is broad. Forgive me if a thread like this exists already.

I jut spent 20 min away from my fav movie Romeo and Juliet to write a long post about how difficult that could be; and the fcuker is lost is cyber space.

So quick answer I'm open to it, lets see what the other mods think?

No my fav line of "tempt not a desparate man" is coming up, I'll be back in a few

Sardonicat

Odysseus wrote: »

I jut spent 20 min away from my fav movie Romeo and Juliet to write a long post about how difficult that could be; and the fcuker is lost is cyber space.

So quick answer I'm open to it, lets see what the other mods think?

No my fav line of "tempt not a desparate man" is coming up, I'll be back in a few

Bet you can't watch it without analysing all the motivations of the characters

Mind you, it's kinda the point with Shakespear, so you're excused.

Odysseus

Sardonicat wrote: »

Bet you can't watch it without analysing all the motivations of the characters

Mind you, it's kinda the point with Shakespear, so you're excused.

No it all about the language for us, as Lacan "states the unconscious is strucutred like a language". However the big one in psychoanalysis is Hamlet.

I know I'm off topic here so my next post will return to the OPs questions.

Darlughda

decriain wrote: »

But if that is so, why did two different GPs fail to make correct suggestions? Why are they ill-informed? Is that reflective of experience in general?

Another member of my family has had similar complaints. He has also attended several therapists and his view is that unless you fit a desired "type" (e.g. "the" repressed middle aged woman, "the" repressed homosexual, etc.) some counsellors are simply not interested. Their lack of empathy shows itself in a mistrust of the symptoms you describe. Unless you can somehow manufacture a 'break-down' in front of them, they do not believe you.

Some carers are out of their depth and patients are being referred to them that they cannot possibly help. But, of course these unlucky patients may have to spill their guts for 6 weeks (at up to 80 euro a go) before they learn "Sorry, I don't think this is going anywhere (but thanks for the cash)".

Fair play to you OP. So many people presenting problems that are blanket labelled 'Depression' at their GPs, and those GPs, as well meaning as they may be, have no clue who to refer them to.

Even if you are lucky enough to be a medical card holder, the hse therapists have been, ime, the worst examples of cushy job holders who are waiting out their maternity leave and if you didn't fall withing the paradigms of the model they had learnt, or the patients they had dealt with, then obviously the fault lyed with you for not getting with the programme.

Odyseuss, I have more than a suspicion, based on your previous postings, that you are not one of these types, and I wish there were more like you.

But the fact remains, everyone talks about therapy and psychologists etc to help with problems that someone cannot find the ability to function in life, yet when it comes down to the nitty gritty these people are thin on the ground or are being paid outrageous salaries by the HSE just to dismiss you if you do not fall within the fines of their learned therapeautic model.

Odysseus

Darlughda wrote: »

Fair play to you OP. So many people presenting problems that are blanket labelled 'Depression' at their GPs, and those GPs, as well meaning as they may be, have no clue who to refer them to.

Even if you are lucky enough to be a medical card holder, the hse therapists have been, ime, the worst examples of cushy job holders who are waiting out their maternity leave and if you didn't fall withing the paradigms of the model they had learnt, or the patients they had dealt with, then obviously the fault lyed with you for not getting with the programme.

Odyseuss, I have more than a suspicion, based on your previous postings, that you are not one of these types, and I wish there were more like you.

But the fact remains, everyone talks about therapy and psychologists etc to help with problems that someone cannot find the ability to function in life, yet when it comes down to the nitty gritty these people are thin on the ground or are being paid outrageous salaries by the HSE just to dismiss you if you do not fall within the fines of their learned therapeautic model.

Hi Darlughda,

I cannot speak of the treatment you recieved as I know nothing about, sadly it differs from location to location. However, I know some therapists out there who break their balls every day in the HSE, sadly, I also know the other side.

I have to also make the point their is nothing outrageous about my salarie. I teach to make up extra cash. Thanks for you personal ananlysis:)

What do you think needs to to done, as someone who had a bad experience of the system?

decriain

Hi

Thanks for all the interesting replies.
I get the feeling that most of you are service deliverers.

I agree that there is horrible confusion about what a therapist, counsellor, psychologist, etc is.

My brother and I have been attending for years and neither of us really know the difference.

Should we have taken the time to find out?

Maybe, but to be honest it can be hard enough taking the time to think straight - than doing investigations into health care delivery services, schemes and qualifactions. We have to rely on professionals for something!

I definately agree with this.

"I wonder if it's time to do a sticky thread explaining to lay folk/sevice users, the difference between the different professional titles (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Psychoanalysist, Psychothereapist and any other I've forgotten or not heard about) "

I would love to have known 15 years ago.

decriain

As an addendum and a follow up to my prev post.

For example, what's the difference between:

http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/?map=1&county=Dublin

and

http://www.irish-counselling.ie/
http://www.irish-counselling.ie/index.php/find-a-counsellor-psychotherapist

Odysseus

decriain wrote: »

Hi

Thanks for all the interesting replies.
I get the feeling that most of you are service deliverers.

I agree that there is horrible confusion about what a therapist, counsellor, psychologist, etc is.

My brother and I have been attending for years and neither of us really know the difference.

Should we have taken the time to find out?

Maybe, but to be honest it can be hard enough taking the time to think straight - than doing investigations into health care delivery services, schemes and qualifactions. We have to rely on professionals for something!

I definately agree with this.

"I wonder if it's time to do a sticky thread explaining to lay folk/sevice users, the difference between the different professional titles (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Psychoanalysist, Psychothereapist and any other I've forgotten or not heard about) "

I would love to have known 15 years ago.

Yes a large number of use are therapists/psychs of some sort, lots of students too. Whilst this is not a place for personal advice, it's open to anybody with an interterst in psychological issues and questions like yours. I have to run now, are you happy with some the answers so far, anything else you would like to add?

Odysseus

decriain wrote: »

As an addendum and a follow up to my prev post.

For example, what's the difference between:

http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/
http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/?map=1&county=Dublin

and

http://www.irish-counselling.ie/
http://www.irish-counselling.ie/index.php/find-a-counsellor-psychotherapist

I really do have to run but will look at that later and answer it the best I can.

decriain

Hi Odysseus

Thanks for the post.

I am glad that this is being debated openly and fairly.

I had been thinking about it for a while (as I am wont!), and have been discussing it with my brother.

We are both frustrated with service quality, but see no way of feeding that information back up the "Supply Chain". I have not yet seen a therapist with a suggestions box or asking me to "rate my service"!

In this way I feel as if the profession is quite self-protecting. Which is ironic, for a discipline that seeks honesty and clarity.

(However - in my experience - most professional bodies are like that. Quite selfish and introverted. Though, that is probably natural, given that their mission is to bolster themselves.)

In addition, the profession can comes across as bit "precious" - making it hard to confront or argue with it. Maybe it is still too "new". Though, that doesn't mean we shouldn't get the boot in where necessary. A lot of other professions would have benefited from a good, public drag across the coals in order to prevent scandals and ineptness taking over.

If I could wave a magic wand, what I'd love is...

1. An informed triage service that can direct patients at the right type of service, whether simple counselling or intensive psychiatry.
2. Mental health services clearly and rationally explained so a patient can make an informed decision what what service they think suits them (sometimes we really do know best).
3. A mechanism for feedback, whether direct or anonymous.

Odysseus

decriain wrote: »

Hi Odysseus

Thanks for the post.

I am glad that this is being debated openly and fairly.

I had been thinking about it for a while (as I am wont!), and have been discussing it with my brother.

We are both frustrated with service quality, but see no way of feeding that information back up the "Supply Chain". I have not yet seen a therapist with a suggestions box or asking me to "rate my service"!

In this way I feel as if the profession is quite self-protecting. Which is ironic, for a discipline that seeks honesty and clarity.

(However - in my experience - most professional bodies are like that. Quite selfish and introverted. Though, that is probably natural, given that their mission is to bolster themselves.)

In addition, the profession can comes across as bit "precious" - making it hard to confront or argue with it. Maybe it is still too "new". Though, that doesn't mean we shouldn't get the boot in where necessary. A lot of other professions would have benefited from a good, public drag across the coals in order to prevent scandals and ineptness taking over.

If I could wave a magic wand, what I'd love is...

1. An informed triage service that can direct patients at the right type of service, whether simple counselling or intensive psychiatry.
2. Mental health services clearly and rationally explained so a patient can make an informed decision what what service they think suits them (sometimes we really do know best).
3. A mechanism for feedback, whether direct or anonymous.

Decriain, we are quite open here, once it is respectful, and relates to psychology related issues. As clinicians we are aware of a lot of the problems, but there are some that we miss. My main focus is being a clinician, which leaves little time to look at improving services outside our own. Mine main concern has to be my current clients, I do my bit in trying to keep my area running. I stopped trying to develop the service on a bigger scale after every idea I put forward was binned, even after some of them where pass by my line manager.

I have seen too many therapists burn out not because of the work, but because the its top down Area Ops are admin and have not clinical experience, its over a year since I seen my Clinical Director, he has passed on everything to our consultant.

My consultant has no idea of how I work, either have the GPs who sent clients to me, and this is all within the same clinic. So you seen the problem with your triage concept an excellent one as it is, how could it work based upon the above, and that it’s just my clinic.

More to follow...

JuliusCaesar

Sardonicat wrote: »

I wonder if it's time to do a sticky thread explaining to lay folk/sevice users, the difference between the different professional titles (Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Psychoanalysist, Psychothereapist and any other I've forgotten or not heard about) Maybe there could be a rep from each explaining what they do and how they differ form the others? It can be very confusing for a lay person and the margin for misinunderstanding or unintentionally misleading someone on an internet forum is broad. Forgive me if a thread like this exists already.

Yes, well, a couple of the stickies do explain it....I'll go into the HOw to find a counsellor one and do An Idiots Guide to Mental Health Professions (no offence! )

Darlughda wrote: »

Even if you are lucky enough to be a medical card holder, the hse therapists have been, ime, the worst examples of cushy job holders who are waiting out their maternity leave and if you didn't fall withing the paradigms of the model they had learnt, or the patients they had dealt with, then obviously the fault lyed with you for not getting with the programme.
.............. are being paid outrageous salaries by the HSE

I think that is a blanket denigration of many hard-working people. Perhaps there may also be an element of resistance involved. It takes two for therapy to work.

As for "outrageous salaries"....... I only wish I was getting one! :rolleyes:

decriain wrote: »

I agree that there is horrible confusion about what a therapist, counsellor, psychologist, etc is. My brother and I have been attending for years and neither of us really know the difference.

Should we have taken the time to find out?

Probably - especially after one bad experience.

decriain wrote: »

1. An informed triage service that can direct patients at the right type of service, whether simple counselling or intensive psychiatry.
2. Mental health services clearly and rationally explained so a patient can make an informed decision what what service they think suits them (sometimes we really do know best).
3. A mechanism for feedback, whether direct or anonymous.

Have you contacted the Irish Advocacy Network? Or any of the patient organisations? It's really important for service users/patients to get involved in trying to reform and reshape the health services.

Odysseus wrote: »

I have seen too many therapists burn out not because of the work, but because the its top down Area Ops are admin and have not clinical experience, its over a year since I seen my Clinical Director, he has passed on everything to our consultant.

My consultant has no idea of how I work, either have the GPs who sent clients to me, and this is all within the same clinic. So you seen the problem with your triage concept an excellent one as it is, how could it work based upon the above, and that it’s just my clinic.

Have you educated the consultant? Have you attended meetings where the CD was? I work with a number of consultants and I make very clear what kinds of problems/people I work with etc.

Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh. I've been working in the HSE for 18 years and came to it from abroad. I was shocked at what I found but one has to take some responsibility for trying to bring about change - unless one is happy with the status quo.

Odysseus

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Have you educated the consultant? Have you attended meetings where the CD was? I work with a number of consultants and I make very clear what kinds of problems/people I work with etc.


Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh. I've been working in the HSE for 18 years and came to it from abroad. I was shocked at what I found but one has to take some responsibility for trying to bring about change - unless one is happy with the status quo.

Fair point, falls on deaf ears; whilst we both work for the HSE you know we are in different Services, just making that point fro other who wouldn't be aware or that.

I can take confrontation, but what I have seen is too many burn out as a wall of medics pull together, and the person is isolated and ends up burned out. Our service really is a different beast.

On the point about the differences, what do you think of putting a sticky together on the differences, I would gladly do the counsellor/psychotherapist/psychoanalysis, may be yourself or Gibs on clinical psychology, Sam on psychiatrist. I'm sure other would help with other aspects, any thoughts.

Finally no you not being harsh, and feel free to call me on my position around the clinical team.

kitkat.3b4t

decriain wrote: »

As a 'customer' of such services for a long time, I read the big mental health supplement in the Irish Times recently.

I was disappointed.


My own experience is that quality is not guaranteed.

Of course, it may be that I was referred to the wrong type of carer. But if that is so, why did two different GPs fail to make correct suggestions? Why are they ill-informed? Is that reflective of experience in general?

Another member of my family has had similar complaints. He has also attended several therapists and his view is that unless you fit a desired "type" (e.g. "the" repressed middle aged woman, "the" repressed homosexual, etc.) some counsellors are simply not interested. Their lack of empathy shows itself in a mistrust of the symptoms you describe. Unless you can somehow manufacture a 'break-down' in front of them, they do not believe you.

What I am saying is that our experience at the sharp end of mental health care delivery is not wholly positive. While good service is certainly delivered by some (I am personally grateful to a number of professionals) - quality is NOT a guarantee.

This is attempted in an ad-hoc manner on your website (http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/find/) - but is woefully inadequate. If you call to ask for a recommendation, you will get none. You don't want to promote one therapist over another.

The IT supplement also noted that demand for mental health services is increasing whilst the supply of professionals remains low. This implies that revenue in your industry is growing, i.e. it is getting richer.

Hi Decrianin

Im sorry to hear that you have had such bad luck with psychotherapy. I imagine the whole thing can seem a little confusing especially when you don’t know what to expect. Essentially there are 3 major approaches to psychotherapy. These are: Psychodynamic (eg Freud & Lacan etc); Humanistic (integrative-person centred) & Cognitive-behavioural (CBT) which looks at how ways of thinking affect behaviour and vice-versa.

As Odysseus pointed out a psychotherapist isn’t a carer. Psychotherapy is also known as ‘talking therapy’. Maybe it might help clarify the role of psychotherapy and therapists if you think of it in these terms. If you have time maybe you could Google the different types of psychotherapy, so that you could get more info and if you decided to see a therapist again you’d be in a better position to know what you wanted and what you should expect. Generally psychotherapy is a two-way process between the client and therapist. There is no magic wand and sometimes it takes time to see improvements. It’s probably a good idea to ask the therapist some questions before committing to a course of treatment, or even an appointment. Just because your GP recommends someone it doesn’t necessarily follow that their approach will suit you.

I know psychotherapy seems very expensive but there are lost of overheads such as rent and in some cases up to one third of clients don’t turn up or cancel with appropriate warning, this means that the therapist still has to pay rent but does not get paid. To train as a psychotherapist can cost €30,000-€50,000. Lots of therapists give concessions for people on a low wage. The IACP or PSI etc don’t employ therapist, they merely list people who have reached the required qualifications, therefore unless therapists work for the HSE or some other large organization they are self employed.

There are also more modern new age types of therapy such as art, dance drama etc. Some people find these approaches very useful.

You said that you feel that ‘quality is not guaranteed’. Maybe if you take some time to ask yourself what you want and expect and then do some research on what is available (eg Google or local library) you might be in a better position to the find help which meets the standard you expect.

Rosiestar

I may be a psychotherapist, but I'm not one here, there will be no personal abuse here or trolling. Jog on. Banned for two weeks. If after that you wish to engage in the topic your welcome, but it will be in a respectful manner. Are we clear on this?

Rosiestar

Excuse me, I take high personal offense to that comment, I posted no actual comment, I was just perusing, I accept that on one occasion yes when I was I in a high manic/psychotic state I posted on these boards, and yes, I got reprimanded for that, but why are you attacking me now when I have said nothing, absolultely nothing. A personal vendetta one would conclude. An explanation would be appreciated immediately. Why are you attacking the very clients/patients to claim to assist. Baffles me personally.

Odysseus

Rosiestar wrote: »

Excuse me, I take high personal offense to that comment, I posted no actual comment, I was just perusing, I accept that on one occasion yes when I was I in a high manic/psychotic state I posted on these boards, and yes, I got reprimanded for that, but why are you attacking me now when I have said nothing, absolultely nothing. A personal vendetta one would conclude. An explanation would be appreciated immediately. Why are you attacking the very clients/patients to claim to assist. Baffles me personally.

It is a full year since I intervened in you post. Your use of language was unacceptable and derogatory towards mental health staff. If you have an issue with my intervention, contact the feedback forum which deals with disputes. You do not question a Mods interventions in a thread in any forum, people usually get infracted for that; I will let it pass this time.


However as I said if you have an issue with my intervention last year, you need to follow the correct procedures, this thread is not the place for it.

You can of course still post about the topic, but you need to stay on topic.