Picnic is over-RTE2 DTT gone to HD. Any box have YPbPr out?

MiketheMechanic

My cheap and cheerful Sagem Picnic receiver, which I got over a year ago for €20 won't show RTE2 now that its switched to HD.

In replacing it, for my particular TV setup, I need a DTT receiver that has Component Out YPbPr/CPbPr?

Can anyone recommend one?

I don't think that the WP10DTP & WP11DTP have Component out.

MtM

STB

Get one of the French boxes. You are looking for "TNT HD" boxes like the

Xoro (plays MKVs and records via USB)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67512937&postcount=25

or the Peekton PK 1870 HD REC

About €40 and €15 for pp/delivery (keeping it cheap and cheerful).

No MHEG5 though so no fancy text.

watty

Component out in Europe is "supposed" to be just alternate to SCART, i.e. just SD and not HD.

HD is "supposed" to be on HDMI only. HD on component is a an early US/Japanese thing. So some boxes even if they have "component" may only do SD on it.

What sort of HDTV is it without HDMI?

MiketheMechanic

Hi Watty, its not a HDTV.
Its a 6 year old Panasonic Commercial Plasma Panel - 42 inch. (Panasonic TH-42PWD6)

I think there is a DVI terminal board available for it, but with the following limitations: 576/50p

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/168496-final-call-about-panny-hdmi-dvi-cards.html

I only have Component terminal boards in it.

That said, YPbPr output from DVD and Component Out of HD channels from my SkyHD box still looks surprisingly good compared to brand new HD sets.

I suppose if I can "set" the output of a DTT receiver to 576/50p, then DVI/HDMI is an option.

MtM

cauliflower69

Could you not use a HDMI to Component Adapter

watty

HDMI to Component Adapter
Doesn't do HD. It's to do with HDCP. May not exist.
You can get Component to HDMI.


DVI/HDMI
Converts DVI to HDMI. None convert HDMI to DVI.

You can buy or make a SCART (RGB) to Component adaptor. But they are not in much demand, so not very cheap.

Some boxes have Component, Composite, S-Video and RGB modes on the SCART. Then you just need a cable. A true SCART RGB to Component has simply some resistors and video amps to invert and matrix the RGB to YPbPr

philahern

watty wrote: »

HDMI to Component Adapter
DVI/HDMI
Converts DVI to HDMI. None convert HDMI to DVI.

Are you saying there isn't an adapter to convert hdmi to dvi or am I misunderstanding?

watty

DVI-D to HDMI is no problem.

HDMI to DVI-D adaptors do exist. But they tend to not work. Usually due to HDCP. Very few DVI-D displays have HDCP decoders.

Also an older TV with VGA and/or DVI may only be using analogue. Not the DVI-D. The PC graphics cards work with cheap VGA adaptors and basic NON-DVI-D DVI connectors on displays as they have Analogue and Digital signals on the DVI connector.

A real HD display which does 25fps and 50fps, HDMI and 1080i is not expensive. About half the price of a decent CRT WS TV 6 years ago.

philahern

Yeah I have seen plenty of adapters for this but no mention of this problem. I have a spare monitor with DVI-D that I was going to hook up a media extender to. I suppose there's no way to tell if the monitor will decode the HDCP as it's unlikely to be mentioned in the specs?

watty

Monitors are designed for PC and PC is related to USA 60Hz
1) Lots of Monitors don't do 1080i 25fps 50Hz less do 576i 25fps 50Hz
2) Few Monitors do 1080p 50fps 50Hz or 720p 50fps 50Hz They do 60Hz/60fps
3) Some only do PC resolutions.

ALL broadcast in Europe is 25fps / 50Hz
576i or 1080i

Almost all DVD & BD are internally either 24fps progressive or 24fps progressive with sound pitch lowered 24/25ths.

The USA /Japan region DVD are 480 line 24fps and converted to 480i 30fps 60Hz or 480p 60fps on playback.

The "PAL" regions are 30% sharper 576 line 24fps played at 576i 25fps 50Hz (audio may have been stored pre-pitch corrected by 24/25ths). No pull down Interlacing artifacts. TV can perfectly de-interlace easily for Progressive display with no loss of quality.

The USA /Japan region BD are 1080p 24fps and converted to 720p 60fps or 1080p 60fps on playback. 1080i 30fps 60Hz playback looks rubbish. 1080p 24 fps gives best quality (usually doubled by TV to 48 fps), followed by 1080p 60fps/60Hz

The "PAL" regions BD are also 1080p 24fps played at 720p 50fps/50Hz, 1080i (audio may have been stored pre-pitch corrected by 24/25ths). No pull down Interlacing artifacts. TV can perfectly de-interlace 1080i 25fps 50Hz easily for Progressive display with no loss of quality. 720p is a reduction quality and 1080p gives no extra quality.

Conclusions
If it doesn't mention HDCP, then it generally hasn't got it.
DVI or Component are bad ideas for HD playback/Reception
You need 1080i 25fps/50Hz or 1080p 50fps/50Hz HDMI HDCP for Europe. The 1080i 25fps/50Hz is better for Broadcast, makes no difference for DVD/BD and 1080p 50Hz/fps only an advantage for Consoles and PC output.
Actual PC monitors may be OK for USA/Japan TV, usually rubbish for Europe.

For non-HD, i.e. 576i "PAL" region there is little difference between S-Video, SCART RGB and Component because only the Luminance (B&W) is full bandwidth. Composite is bad as strong colour causes patterns and fine patterns cause colour flicker.

touts

OK being a mere human I didn't understand most of the previous clarifications but one thing springs to mind.

If RTE2 is going to be HD only does that mean any old, perfectly good but non HD TD won't pick up RTE2 after the digital switchover even if you buy a decoder.

In a normal civilised country this wouldn't even be an issue and I wouldn't have to ask the question but with the heartless shower of ****s running this god foresaken place it wouldn't surprise me if they came up with a way of boosting vat receipts and to hell with those who can't afford a new TV.

sesswhat

touts wrote: »

If RTE2 is going to be HD only does that mean any old, perfectly good but non HD TD won't pick up RTE2 after the digital switchover even if you buy a decoder.

If it has a SCART connection it will still work with a suitable box.

watty

no.

ALL proper Set-boxes (aka Decoders) that do HD on the HDMI, also provide regular TV on the SCART. They downconvert the 1080i lines to regular 625 lines (576i lines visible).

If you have a working Set-box you get RTE 2 HD on old TV as long as it has SCART.

If the TV is REALLY old /cheap and has ONLY aerial, you can use an old VHS (even if the tape player is broken) to convert SCART to Aerial signal.

touts

OK. Thanks for the clarification.

Tony

RTE 2 will revert to SD the week before Christmas if thats any help.

The Cush

Tony wrote: »

RTE 2 will revert to SD the week before Christmas if thats any help.

Where did this info come from Tony?

It would be a shame to lose it now. A concession from RTÉ for the Christmas period for those with non compatible receivers perhaps? and a warning to those selling non compatible receivers too, maybe?

Tony

The Cush wrote: »

Where did this info come from Tony?

Senior broadcasting manager at RTE, sorry I can't be more specific.

The Cush wrote: »

It would be a shame to lose it now. A concession from RTÉ for the Christmas period for those with non compatible receivers perhaps? and a warning to those selling non compatible receivers too, maybe?

Wow, you hit the nail on the head. They are really big on Saorview approved receivers (approved by terracom) . The plan at the minute is to revert to the proposed final set up sometime in January and remain that way right through the launch in March. RTE 2 will be mainly in HD for sports events but the studio links etc will be upscaled SD. Subject to BCI approval a few more channels are on the way.

Another interesting point is that a manufacturer ( I don't know which one) has submitted a combo box for Saorview approval although only the DTT part of the box will be approved.

They are still very tight lipped about the satellite service but insist it is purely for the 2% that cannot get terrestrial DTT.

watty

Tony wrote: »

Another interesting point is that a manufacturer ( I don't know which one) has submitted a combo box for Saorview approval although only the DTT part of the box will be approved.

They are still very tight lipped about the satellite service but insist it is purely for the 2% that cannot get terrestrial DTT.

Both those make perfect sense.

The Cush

Tony wrote: »

Wow, you hit the nail on the head. They are really big on Saorview approved receivers (approved by terracom) . The plan at the minute is to revert to the proposed final set up sometime in January and remain that way right through the launch in March.

So by switching over to 1080i at the end of Nov RTÉ has killed the dodgy box market in the run in to Christmas. They'll have switch back again before the New Year sales begin.

Tony

Not sure dodgy box is the right term to use, that term was associated with illegal cable boxes.

The Cush wrote: »

So by switching over to 1080i at the end of Nov RTÉ has killed the dodgy box market in the run in to Christmas. They'll have switch back again before the New Year sales begin.

The Cush

Tony wrote: »

Not sure dodgy box is the right term to use, that term was associated with illegal cable boxes.

Dodgy DTT (non MPEG4 HP@L4) box market then.

watty

Different kind of Dodgy box. Some actually were prevously sold for C***** ***s
So actually really the "original Dodgy" box!

Search ebay for Irish DTT

rurs

Tony wrote: »

Another interesting point is that a manufacturer ( I don't know which one) has submitted a combo box for Saorview approval although only the DTT part of the box will be approved.

They are still very tight lipped about the satellite service but insist it is purely for the 2% that cannot get terrestrial DTT.

Very interesting...maybe Triax Hd527, claims MHEG5 compatible on the box, or i-CAN 2850ST, uses MHP in Italy, the parent company ADB seem big on interactive services and VOD. Any idea when it might hit the shelves?

Macy0161

Tony wrote: »

Another interesting point is that a manufacturer ( I don't know which one) has submitted a combo box for Saorview approval although only the DTT part of the box will be approved.

Interesting (and welcome). I know it doesn't necessarily mean that once it's approved the manufacturer will launch, but how long does the approval process take? I've been tasked with sorting out the in laws, so might hold off (with the news the picnics will be back working for a few weeks at least!).

Tony

Actually it does mean it will launch as its costs up to 20K to get certified so it would not make sense not to sell the product having paid that money.

Macy0161 wrote: »

Interesting (and welcome). I know it doesn't necessarily mean that once it's approved the manufacturer will launch, but how long does the approval process take?

STB

rurs wrote: »

Very interesting...maybe Triax Hd527, claims MHEG5 compatible on the box, or i-CAN 2850ST, uses MHP in Italy, the parent company ADB seem big on interactive services and VOD. Any idea when it might hit the shelves?

Or even the Unibox....

Macy0161

Tony wrote: »

Actually it does mean it will launch as its costs up to 20K to get certified so it would not make sense nt to sell the product having paid that money.

Badly phrased on my part - I was more wondering when, rather than if - once approved, they wouldn't necessarily launch immediately. But anyone know how long approval takes?

Tony

Macy0161 wrote: »

But anyone know how long approval takes?

Theres no period , depends on how may boxes they are doing at the one time. they are also certifying for the Nordic market. Maybe an email to terracom might get a ballpark time period.

watty

Macy0161 wrote: »

Interesting (and welcome). I know it doesn't necessarily mean that once it's approved the manufacturer will launch, but how long does the approval process take? I've been tasked with sorting out the in laws, so might hold off (with the news the picnics will be back working for a few weeks at least!).

Unless you are desparate (no TV) I'd hold off till end April 2011

If you have decent laptop / PC with TV out or HDMI out a Dual Tuner DTT stick under €30 inc postage doesn't go amiss. There are cheap sticks (<€10) but they often don't have ordinary aerial socket, decent application and only single tuner.

Macy0161

watty wrote: »

Unless you are desparate (no TV) I'd hold off till end April 2011

It's for the in laws - and they are getting fairly desperate at this stage for decent reception. They've used our combo and have been impressed, but if there was going to be an certified option I'd ideally prefer them to hold off. However, the picnic sounds like it'll get them through Christmas anyway, which will buy a bit of time.

As an aside, perfect timing for a certified combo option. Since yesterdays budget I've heard several comments on radio phone in's from people faced with household budget cuts talking about ditching sky, and "going back to just RTE 1 & 2". That's before the wider public realise that they don't actually have to loose that many channels they probably watch!

12 element

Tony wrote: »

Another interesting point is that a manufacturer ( I don't know which one) has submitted a combo box for Saorview approval although only the DTT part of the box will be approved.

I heard Triax are doing this, only time will tell though I suppose.

Tony

12 element wrote: »

I heard Triax are doing this, only time will tell though I suppose.

Yeah I reckon they are the top candidate alright