Digital terrestrial TV receiver

Digtvinfo

Hi all,

I recently purchased a Sky Line DVB-T Digital terrestrial receiver, hooked it up and everything went well, got RTE1, RTE2, TV3,TG4, RTE News Now,3E, happy days, although the signal seemed to temporarily fail and and the unit reboot every now and again, but happy enough with the purchase.

A couple of days ago, I think it was the 1st December, RTE2 went A.W.O.L, could only get sound, no picture. From being on here I saw the reason for this was because RTE2 went HD. My question is can I do anything with the receiver to get the picture back or have I made the wrong purchase ?

watty

It's product "dumped" on the Market. It's of no use. I've been warning about these kind of products for about two years maybe,

See "WARNING" http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/saorview-reception/

# The Neotion “CAMs” such as Pocket Duo or NP4 will not convert TVs or Set-boxes
# Digital TVs that don’t work due to lack of MPEG4 (only MPEG2) can only be used with separate Set-box, not converted or upgraded.
# The “Sagem Picnic” and “Philex Skyline” “MPEG4″ set-boxes will stop working. These don’t do HD, not even Downconvert. Do not buy the “Triax TR110″ DTT only as it has no HDMI.

Digtvinfo

watty wrote: »

It's product "dumped" on the Market. It's of no use. I've been warning about these kind of products for about two years maybe,

See "WARNING" http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/saorview-reception/

Thanks Watty, I am only new to boards.ie, terrible pity I didn't see your post before. I only bought the STB last week, cost me €79.99, threw away the packaging box when I saw it was working so I guess I have no chance of a refund.

So my best option for a replacement then is to only buy a STB with the saorview logo on it, Yes ?

Tom Slick

What's this with thinking you need the packaging to get a refund, what's wrong with a receipt/invoice?

Digtvinfo

Tom Slick wrote: »

What's this with thinking you need the packaging to get a refund, what's wrong with a receipt/invoice?

You reckon I should bring it back and give it a try for a refund

doney84

Digtvinfo wrote: »

So my best option for a replacement then is to only buy a STB with the saorview logo on it, Yes ?

Yeah, but there is only one box on the market so far that is Saorview certified. You could also try a Freeview HD box. It is for uk dtt but should work with Saorview.

St Senan

This is the only saorview Dtt box that should be sold at the moment
http://www.powercity.ie/?brands=WALKER&pages=1&par=10-23

Tom Slick

Digtvinfo wrote: »

You reckon I should bring it back and give it a try for a refund

Certainly. At least now you know it will never work fully & can inform the seller of this fact.

Digtvinfo

scaller wrote: »

This is the only saorview Dtt box that should be sold at the moment
http://www.powercity.ie/?brands=WALKER&pages=1&par=10-23

Is the Walker brand a good buy, I see Power city have a 32" Saorview tv HD ready tv with the receiver built in.

mar1us

have a look ur self there loads of other tv's whit an mpeg4 dtt (digital terestrial tuner)ready for irish dtt,so u won't need a extra box

Digtvinfo

Tom Slick wrote: »

Certainly. At least now you know it will never work fully & can inform the seller of this fact.

Brought the sky line STB back, full refund given, bought the Saorview DTT STB, working perfectly, no breakdowns, and fantastic reception.

Sponge Bob

Anyone else with a Philex Skyline bought in Ireland, and the receipt, bring it back for the full refund.

watty

yes indeed

Probably any of these in last two years

• Neotion “CAMs” such as Pocket Duo or NP4 will not convert TVs or Set-boxes. Also run too hot.
• Sagem Picnic.
• Opticum FT15″(p or g),
• Golden Media T-BOX 8050
• Philex Skyline DTT
• Triax TR110 DTT only
• Any TV Tv sold as "Digital" but not working

Also
Any TV sold Since November without Working Irish Digital

You don't need packaging. If you can prove proof of purchase (i.e. credit card, or brand unique to shop) then you don't really need an receipt.

Quackhart

http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2728269/art/samsung/sh893-dvd-recorder-with-1.html

From what little I have garnered from the threads I have read through around here. As an all in one PVR solution would this Samsung DVD Recorder (it seems to the untrained eye good spec wise) do the trick?

watty

DVDs are not supposed to have MPEG4. Also a DVD R even with MPEG4 might not fit an HD movie.

DO NOT BUY http://www.pixmania.ie/ie/uk/2728269...er-with-1.html It is obsolete and will never work on Irish DTT (Saorview), "Freeview HD" or "TNT HD"

There will be no DVD recorder suitable for Saorview, or "Freeview HD". Only HDD PVR and also some with BDR (BluRay Recordable).

The "DivX/MPEG4 compatible" is not referring to MPEG4 AVC/H.264 I doubt it will play those files. xVid and DivX use a more primative MPEG4. The Compatibility is refering not even to true DVD video playback, but re-play of PC created files of DivX content.

Via tuner it only does MPEG2. Only "Freeview" and "TNT", NOT "Freeview HD" or "TNT HD"

This is why although there are some "Freeview" TVs that work on Irish Terrestrial (Saorview) the www.saortv.info site states that "Freeview" doesn't work, even if a "Full HD" or "HD Ready" TV. The only "good" non-Saorview is "Freeview HD" and "TNT HD" is 2nd less good choice as it has no MHEG5.

collinshane

Hi there, I had been led to believe that we (Ireland) were going to use the same transmission platform as Norway, Sweden etc, that is MPEG4, not the MPEG2 being used in UK. Bearing this in mind I purchased a box which was being sold and working in Sweden, it's a Hinke, and I assumed this would work in Ireland. Like so many others, I'm now left with no RTE2, despite the fact it had worked perfect until last week.

If I'm not mistaken RTE2 will now be the first channel in Europe to not have a standard definition equivalent.... There's nothing on Sky etc. that is only available in HD, if there was their customers would cause uproar, as it would be grossly unfair to those who don't have a HD box.

Were these specifications announced in advance, and were the public warned that an MPEG4 tuner was not sufficient to watch RTE on digital??

(Watty, I see you have been warning people for two years, I wish I'd seen your post, and I'm curious as to how you knew. )

Sam Russell

It is not just Watty that has been warning about this. I read the spec and realised that HD was a requirement even for SD TVs. The Picnic was always a short term solution that would not survive the launch. But it was cheap.

collinshane

OK, it seems I missed something here.

1. Where was the specs sheet published? I never found it, admittedly I didn't spend too long searching.

2. Is there somewhere I can buy a receiver that will work now on a SD TV ?

3. Are there any more changes likely between now and the official launch date?

Thanks in advance.

St Senan

collinshane wrote: »

OK, it seems I missed something here.

1. Where was the specs sheet published? I never found it, admittedly I didn't spend too long searching.

2. Is there somewhere I can buy a receiver that will work now on a SD TV ?

3. Are there any more changes likely between now and the official launch date?

Thanks in advance.

This is what you want http://www.powercity.ie/?brands=WALKER&pages=1&par=10-23

watty

All proper Saorview Setbox work SD and HD screens

STB

collinshane wrote: »

Hi there, I had been led to believe that we (Ireland) were going to use the same transmission platform as Norway, Sweden etc, that is MPEG4, not the MPEG2 being used in UK. Bearing this in mind I purchased a box which was being sold and working in Sweden, it's a Hinke, and I assumed this would work in Ireland. Like so many others, I'm now left with no RTE2, despite the fact it had worked perfect until last week.

If I'm not mistaken RTE2 will now be the first channel in Europe to not have a standard definition equivalent.... There's nothing on Sky etc. that is only available in HD, if there was their customers would cause uproar, as it would be grossly unfair to those who don't have a HD box.

Were these specifications announced in advance, and were the public warned that an MPEG4 tuner was not sufficient to watch RTE on digital??

(Watty, I see you have been warning people for two years, I wish I'd seen your post, and I'm curious as to how you knew. )

You assumed wrong. Sweden uses MPEG4 and MPEG2 for Standard Definition on DVB-T.

They then use DVB-T2 for MPEG4 HD. Diffrent box, tuner, platform.

They are not the same spec to us or Norway. Infact we are not the same spec to Norway or Sweden.

It is not RTE's fault that you bought a standard definition (L3) MPEG4 H264 box. You are mistaken about your claim that RTE being the first country not to have mirror stations in HD and SD. The French stations were MPEG2, the commercials MPEG4. What a waste of space mirror stations would be to a mux.

The technical spec was published in 2008. MPEG4 AVC H264 (L4.1 or HD ) is the minimum spec laid down from day one.

You could have bought a box from France or Czech Republic and many others and it would have been fine.

watty

collinshane wrote: »

OK, it seems I missed something here.

1. Where was the specs sheet published? I never found it, admittedly I didn't spend too long searching.

2. Is there somewhere I can buy a receiver that will work now on a SD TV ?

3. Are there any more changes likely between now and the official launch date?

Thanks in advance.

1) The locked toilet in the basement in the planning office in Alpha Centauri.

Actually on RTE NL's Web site.

2) Nearly anywhere except Tesco Ireland (but in the UK has them) or Aldi.

3) No.

See www.saortv.info and all the OFFICIAL websites in top Right of page.

12 element

You can see the minimum specifications here:

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/irish_dtt_%20receiver%20spec_public.pdf

You can see in the document history that versions of this document have been around since 2008.

Anyone buying a non saorview branded receiver was taking a risk and should have known that.

collinshane

OK. Thanks for the info.
I had actually checked the RTENL website but must have missed this:
"NorDig 2.2 Basic Profile @ High Definition Level".
I remember the document when I saw it again, but didn't notice the HD requirement.

Right, it seems my assumptions were wrong, I admit that, but should there be any responsibility on the supplier who sold this box? I was told (not in writing) that this would support RTE digital, and the box was bought in Ireland.

Is this mis-selling or purely "let the buyer beware"?

12 element

Where did you buy the box? Exactly what did they say when you bought the box?

watty

Mis sold
Get your money back.

collinshane

Bought the box in December 2009 or maybe January 2010, not 100% sure on date. Bought from a small independent TV /hi-fi etc store. I asked "So, this'll work for RTE digital?", Answer,"Yeah, it will."

I've since bought a Skyline box online (about four months ago), from a NI company, which was clearly marked on the website "Eire Version". I think I definitely have a case for this being mis-sold, whatever about the Hinke.

Stinicker

I took back a skyline box today for my aunt which she was missold; to the store where it was sold.

The proprietor was fuming and blaming RTE for the whole thing. He gave a credit note for its value and will swap it for the Walker Saorview branded box when they get them in, loads of people sold incompatible boxes in the last year and a half and chickens have come home to roost!!

mjsmyth

Retailers can moan and complain all they want about RTE, but the fact remains, they sold incompatible hardware for a service that was still in trial/test/beta/whatever mode.

I do feel sorry for people who bought these boxes, but again, these boxes were never official Saorview boxes and certainly on these forums, there have been plenty of warnings about jumping the gun and buying equipment too early.

watty

The CEDA was told over two years ago?

The Retailers were careless, and in the case of some of the big UK companies, it's suspiciously like dumping when they have suitable models for here in UK stores and don't stock them in Ireland. Some models sold here in last few months are THREE years old.

The Cush

collinshane wrote: »

Were these specifications announced in advance, and were the public warned that an MPEG4 tuner was not sufficient to watch RTE on digital??

(Watty, I see you have been warning people for two years, I wish I'd seen your post, and I'm curious as to how you knew. )

MPEG4 HP@L4 = HDTV, MPEG4 HP@L3 = SDTV

MPEG-4 High Profile, Level 4.0 (for HDTV) has been part of our national DTT standard since late 2007 and was also included in the first Minimum Receiver Requirments from Feb 2008.

The CEDA Information Note to retailers that watty mentioned didn't include information on the different MPEG-4 profiles and it's only now with the disappearence of RTÉ 2 that retailers are becoming aware of the deficiency in some STBs they sell.

Ireland, Sweden and Denmark all use the same basic Nordig NorDig 2.2 receiver standard but the difference is the additions and clarifications specific to each country, e.g in Ireland's case MHEG-5 is one difference between us and Sweden/Norway who require MHP and also CAS for pay DTT.

watty

By end of 2006 even, it was obvious that HD would become standard where bandwidth allowed.

Certain retailers sticking head in Sand.

Seems a bit of a slip up on the CEDA, but maybe whoever wrote it thought HD too obviously to mention? I put the ? as I didn't see the CEDA note myself.

AnthonyB

I have a Hencke as well. Something changed in the RTE2 transmission. For a long time, TV3 was not available, but now it is (and 3e as well). I dunno if it's now in HD - which would be some kind of explanation for having sound but no picture - or what it is, but something changed about a week ago.

watty

AnthonyB wrote: »

I have a Hencke as well. Something changed in the RTE2 transmission. .

RTE 2 is up-scaled to HD

What is a "Hencke"?
Model?
Is that correct spelling?
I can add it to the Black list.

12 element

Do you have a link to your blacklist watty?

Tom Slick

collinshane wrote: »

Hi there, I had been led to believe that we (Ireland) were going to use the same transmission platform as Norway, Sweden etc, that is MPEG4, not the MPEG2 being used in UK.
Bearing this in mind I purchased a box which was being sold and working in Sweden, it's a Hinke . . .

Danish company, Google wouldn't translate for me but it's obviously tv stuff.

St Senan

The Hinke receiver is of no use for saorview http://telesputnik.lv/en/HINKE-HT-0100/145/186/755

St Senan

12 element wrote: »

Do you have a link to your blacklist watty?

They are mentioned here http://www.saortv.info/2010/12/02/rte-2-up-scaled-to-hd/

watty

12 element wrote: »

Do you have a link to your blacklist watty?

It was here http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/saorview-reception/

but I have put it here now http://www.saortv.info/terrestrial-saorview/the-black-list/

AnthonyB

Yeah, sorry, Hinke. I work with a guy called Hencke if rte2 has been upscaled then that's the problem, the box can't process it. they should soon start broadcasting dual mode though.

watty

No, there will be no Dual mode.

Wastes space. That's only for pre-existing DTT or Satellite rolled out before HD & MPEG4.

The Cush

AnthonyB wrote: »

if rte2 has been upscaled then that's the problem, the box can't process it. they should soon start broadcasting dual mode though.

RTÉ 2 recently changed from 576i (MPEG4 HP@L3 = SDTV) to 1080i (MPEG4 HP@L4 = HDTV). Some receivers do not support MPEG4 HP@L4 hence no RTÉ 2 HD.

According to Tony here on the boards RTÉ 2 will revert to 576i before christmas but will return permanently to 1080i sometime in Jan.

There won't be an SD simulcast of RTÉ 2, no available capacity on the mux.