Leaving debt in Ireland when emigrating

Durin

Do hope this is the correct thread for this post, feel free to move it if not:

After many years in the country I left for Sweden this summer with some unpaid debt to the bleedin AIB after a year of unemployment (thank you Tiger economy!), and I wasn't able to make the arrears payments living off welfare :cool:. Received a few letters from collectors before leaving. It's a total of a €2,000 overdraft on the current account and an additional €1,500 on the credit card. I just won't be able to pay off that debt as I am now studying. I'm Swedish-Irish but only hold Swedish citizenship and I'm worried about the legal aspects as both states are EU members.

I know that the Statute of Limitations for debt in Ireland is 6 years but if the bank decide to have collectors find me, what can they do? Will AIB find it economically viable to find me and try to collect the debt? Can they transfer the case to Swedish collectors and/or have me sued in an Irish or Swedish court and do I dare to visit the Republic again? I think the only way to find me is through my Swedish PPS number that I suspect the Revenue Commissioners have on file from when originally applying for the Irish one years and years ago. Would that be on public record?

Our man in Havana

They can seek to have a judgement here recognised in Sweden if they were so inclined. It would cost them a lot of money and considering the amounts involved it is highly unlikely they would bother esp if they do not know where you are in Sweden.

I think the only way to find me is through my Swedish PPS number that I suspect the Revenue Commissioners have on file from when originally applying for the Irish one years and years ago. Would that be on public record?

Absolutely not.

Victor

Durin wrote: »

I think the only way to find me

Don't be so sure. They do after all have your banking records.

Oh and Facebook.

Durin

Thanks for some insightful replies guys.

Haddockman wrote: »

Absolutely not.

Good to hear my Swedish PPS is not on public record.

Victor wrote: »

Don't be so sure. They do after all have your banking records.

Oh and Facebook.

Been actively very cautious with giving away my location on Facebook for that reason. But it is just that, skilled collectors will always be able to find you I suppose. Can't see how though using my banking records as I've never visited my current location using an AIB card.

Oh and is it possible for the case to be passed on to collectors in Sweden without an Irish court injunction and would I be obliged under I dunno, EU or Swedish law to start paying if a collector would find me or would it just be empty threats?

Also, could they file a case with the Guards, leading to like my arrest at Dub Airport immigration? Do I dare enter the country again for the next 6 years? Dunno, you can never be too careful, might just have watched too many Jason Bourne films though! .

ArtSmart

FFS dude. if it was 150,000 maybe. maybe. overall as Haddock says.

Our man in Havana

So, you need to stop watching those Bourne films.

The Gardaí will not be waiting for you. It is a civil matter. Nothing to do with them.

Oh and is it possible for the case to be passed on to collectors in Sweden without an Irish court injunction and would I be obliged under I dunno, EU or Swedish law to start paying if a collector would find me or would it just be empty threats?

They can always try it on first with collectors, i.e. empty threats. But ultimately they will need to get a judgement in Ireland first and then ask a Swedish court to enforce it. They would need permission from the Irish court to serve papers on you in Sweden. I don't think they would go to the bother for a mere 3.5K.

Wise move keeping your profile low on Facebook.

Durin

ArtSmart wrote: »

FFS dude. if it was 150,000 maybe. maybe. overall as Haddock says.

Yeah well sorry. This has been bothering me for months. Just very keen on getting all the facts. Not just the maybes.

Haddockman's last post explains it all, everything has to be done through the courts and won't be done concerning such low amounts. Very different up here in the Nordics, getting fined on public transport in one country will be enforced by creditors in the other country and then by the local State Debt Enforcement Authority. No court involvement.

The Crown Bailiff in Sweden: http://www.kronofogden.se/omkronofogden/allmantomkronofogden/paandrasprakinotherlanguages/engelska.4.7856a2b411550b99fb7800086559.html

Thanks again Haddock.

ArtSmart

your welcome. (and em, g'luck in Sweden)

JosephLoftus

Durin wrote: »

Yeah well sorry. This has been bothering me for months. Just very keen on getting all the facts. Not just the maybes.

QUOTE]

Dont worry about it, im sure the banks arent that worried considering the people of Ireland will eventually end up repaying your debt anyway...

Reloc8

What they'll do is proceed against you in District Court and get a judgment against you in your absence (presuming you didn't tell them where you were moving to they will rely on the address on their records to procure substituted service/service deemed good.

They'll do that before the 6 years is up.

The judgment can be enforced against you but most likely its just something which will hit your credit rating pretty hard.

Our man in Havana

Which is no consequence to the OP if they are planning on never returning to Ireland.

I doubt they would get able to get good service if all post is returned unopened.

Tom Young

That's not true. European Enforcement Orders apply. The debt can be certified by the Irish Courts and made enforceable in your next destination without much cost or effort.

Pay your debts.

Grawns

It's not worth the future hassle over such a small amount of money. Get in touch with your creditors and arrange a payment plan. €50 a month or something you could manage.

danbohan

Tom Young wrote: »

That's not true. European Enforcement Orders apply. The debt can be certified by the Irish Courts and made enforceable in your next destination without much cost or effort.

Pay your debts.

why dont you keep your moralising for the banks /developers /bankers /lawyers who have stolen from irish people and are continuing to steal from them ?

Mr. Presentable

What moralising?

The Irish taxpayer is paying for the bad debts of the banks and, guess what!, this is a bad debt to an Irish bank.

The OP should make some plan to repay what he owes so I don't have to.

population

danbohan wrote: »

why dont you keep your moralising for the banks /developers /bankers /lawyers who have stolen from irish people and are continuing to steal from them ?

2 wrongs does a right not make

chopser

danbohan wrote: »

why dont you keep your moralising for the banks /developers /bankers /lawyers who have stolen from irish people and are continuing to steal from them ?

Seriously this? Do people actually feel they can absolve themselves of their debts by looking at the financial markets. Oh I don't need to pay my electrician/plumber/creche/Doctor because the bond holders weren't burned enough to my liking.

You borrow money/ have a service provided, you pay. End of story.At least thats what honest people were taught when they were brought up. (some extra moralising )

danbohan

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

What moralising?

The Irish taxpayer is paying for the bad debts of the banks and, guess what!, this is a bad debt to an Irish bank.

The OP should make some plan to repay what he owes so I don't have to.

ring seanie fitz and discuss his payment plan with him , start at the top not the bottom unlike what goverment is doing .

Mr. Presentable

danbohan wrote: »

ring seanie fitz and discuss his payment plan with him , start at the top not the bottom unlike what goverment is doing .

So what you are saying is: Because there's a worse offender it is OK to let the rest slide?

danbohan

chopser wrote: »

Seriously this? Do people actually feel they can absolve themselves of their debts by looking at the financial markets. Oh I don't need to pay my electrician/plumber/creche/Doctor because the bond holders weren't burned enough to my liking.

You borrow money/ have a service provided, you pay. End of story.At least thats what honest people were taught when they were brought up.

in an ideal world everybody pays their bills , ireland 2010 is not an ideal world , whether we like it or not many people in ireland will walk out of here leaving mortgages , credit card debt etc behind them , if somebody is in a hopeless situation have no job here , no future , i for one dont blame them .

danbohan

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

So what you are saying is: Because there's a worse offender it is OK to let the rest slide?

you are targeting the weakest as the government , judiciary, police of this state seems intent on doing . when all the big guys have paid their debts by all means extradite the guy from sweden and make him pay

chopser

danbohan wrote: »

you are targeting the weakest as the government , judiciary, police of this state seems intent on doing . when all the big guys have paid their debts by all means extradite the guy from sweden and make him pay

You don't start from the top or the bottom, everyone is supposed to pay their debts.
It's a misconception that refusal to pay debts is ok as it burns the bank. Most tradesmen, small businesses and shopowners are being badly burned and are also in danger of losing everything because people espouse this rubbish and refuse to pay.

danbohan

chopser wrote: »

You don't start from the top or the bottom, everyone is supposed to pay their debts.
It's a misconception that refusal to pay debts is ok as it burns the bank. Most tradesmen, small businesses and shopowners are being badly burned and are also in danger of losing everything because people espouse this rubbish and refuse to pay.

glad you live in ideal world , you and me and lots of irish taxpayers will be paying for debts left by individuals , banks , builders , etc , mortgage default has not even commenced yet and it will be on a massive scale . so my upright friend , you are in situation of a friend on mine , he will still owe bank 260k after they sell his house , he has business loans for failed business of 60k , he has no hope of employment here nor has his wife ,he tried getting sw but was refused or long fingered, self employed you see , he has job offer abroad after xmas and is moving with his family . so in your world he should, 1 , stay here in poverty but try pay his debt , 2, put his familys future life abroad in limbo while he trys to pay off his debts here for next 20 or 30 years . this country and its gombeen elite has failed him as it has failed generations of people before .

chopser

danbohan wrote: »

glad you live in ideal world , you and me and lots of irish taxpayers will be paying for debts left by individuals , banks , builders , etc , mortgage default has not even commenced yet and it will be on a massive scale . so my upright friend , you are in situation of a friend on mine , he will still owe bank 260k after they sell his house , he has business loans for failed business of 60k , he has no hope of employment here nor has his wife ,he tried getting sw but was refused or long fingered, self employed you see , he has job offer abroad after xmas and is moving with his family . so in your world he should, 1 , stay here in poverty but try pay his debt , 2, put his familys future life abroad in limbo while he trys to pay off his debts here for next 20 or 30 years . this country and its gombeen elite has failed him as it has failed generations of people before .

The original poster was talking about a minor debt of 3,500.00. which he has no valid reason for not making a small instalments to pay it back
But in your friends case, how many people will he burn by not attempting to pay his business debts? Why not go abroad, take his new money earning Job and at least attempt to pay back what he owes.

danbohan

chopser wrote: »

The original poster was talking abuot a minor debt of 3,500.00.
But in your friends case, how many people will he burn by not attempting to pay his business debts? Why not go abroad, take his new money earning Job and at least attempt to pay back what he owes.

ok

his business debts are to bank ,

so he will owe 320k to bank in ireland , thats roughly 1800 pm for next 20 years ! do you really think its realistic for anybody to expect he will sacrifice his life, his family's life / future to pay back a bank /country that has given him no option but leave . he will use the bankruptcy option i guess where he is going if need be , not a valid option in our lovely island !

shaneybaby

This is insane. Because the country is in the mire and Seanie fitz is only under investigation so far people should head off to the continent and leave us saddled with it all?? "ideal" country or not nobody held a gun to their head to take out the money over-draft or business loans alike. I have massive sympathy for them but i'm not picking up the can. I wonder if people will be singing the same tune when their buddy who owes them a few hundred, shags off and tries the same reasoning.

Btw Euro enforcement warrant isn't an extradition it's a judgment that will be enforced in another jurisdiction.

danbohan

shaneybaby wrote: »

This is insane. Because the country is in the mire and Seanie fitz is only under investigation so far people should head off to the continent and leave us saddled with it all?? "ideal" country or not nobody held a gun to their head to take out the money over-draft or business loans alike. I have massive sympathy for them but i'm not picking up the can. I wonder if people will be singing the same tune when their buddy who owes them a few hundred, shags off and tries the same reasoning.

Btw Euro enforcement warrant isn't an extradition it's a judgment that will be enforced in another jurisdiction.

and of course you would stay here , or go away and pay back 1800 per month for next 20 years ,? no you would not and your attitude is just more typical irish hypocrisy . ogh and i have news for you , you are picking up the can and your children are picking up the can and maybe even your grandchildren !

Reloc8

danbohan wrote: »

why dont you keep your moralising for the banks /developers /bankers /lawyers who have stolen from irish people and are continuing to steal from them ?

oh crap its the moralising inspector.

shaneybaby

danbohan wrote: »

and of course you would stay here , or go away and pay back 1800 per month for next 20 years ,? no you would not and your attitude is just more typical irish hypocrisy .

But i would. And while i didn't borrow enough for 1800 a month i borrowed enough to kept me in servitude to the banks for a decent chunk of my life. How is it hypocrisy?

danbohan wrote: »

ogh and i have news for you , you are picking up the can and your children are picking up the can and maybe even your grandchildren !

?? My kids will be picking up the can for people running from their debt. i know.

FreudianSlippers

Tom Young wrote: »

That's not true. European Enforcement Orders apply. The debt can be certified by the Irish Courts and made enforceable in your next destination without much cost or effort.

Pay your debts.

^^