Humax & Internet ?

beer enigma

Is there any benefit is having a network connection on the Humax for ROI.

Just wondering if its worth running a cable or not.

ScrubsfanChris

Its for access to the bbc iplayer so its not going to work in ROI, unless your signed up to VPN service, but thats not free :P

watty

Only useful when BBC launch their international iPlayer, maybe.
Or maybe work with RTE next year, very big maybe.

beer enigma

Thanks guys......saved me a job !

homer911

I beg to differ - iPlayer (in the Republic of Ireland) is great for catching up on missed radio programmes such as the comedy shows on Radio 7

There is no IP restriction on the radio..

I use iPlayer through my PS3 (wirelessly through my home router) so I've never bothered to configure the Humax, which needs an ethernet cable direct or with Homeplug

fat-tony

iPlayer for the radio seems to be available only on the web.

When I use the iPlayer function on Freesat, I can navigate through the menus, select a TV programme to watch and then... nothing happens! So I assume the geo-blocking is kicking in. But I had read that the archived radio stuff was available to all, but radio programmes don't seem to be on the red button iPlayer service on Freesat, unfortunately:(

watty

Homeplug can interfere with DSL, Radio etc and is only legal via a loophole. Better to run Cat5e cable.

fat-tony

Yes watty - we must protect our HF from the dreaded homeplug interference hash!

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

Homeplug can interfere with DSL, Radio etc and is only legal via a loophole. Better to run Cat5e cable.

Homeplug is a perfectly viable solution, you do post some strange ones.

watty

It works for the ethernet, though not if your PC PSU, plugtop chargers or CFL lamps have interference at the legal limit.

It's a pair of unlicenced wideband Transmitter & Receiver using COFDM signals nearly 30MHz wide (or on newer types nearly 200MHz wide interfering with FM, Mobile, Aeronautical, Marine too!), similar to DSL technology.

But phone wires are balanced twisted pair.

Mains wire is unbalanced and not twisted

Google homeplug RF interference
It's a very serious issue and will get worse if more people use them. The newer faster type home "mains" networking are much worse.

They are not really sending ethernet over the mains. That's a lie. They are transmitters. if you power one end from UPS or invertor not connected to mains they will still "connect".

They self certify for EMC by testing a single non-communicating unit. So it "passes". When used in real life as a pair carrying data the Interference level is many times the legal limit.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

It works for the ethernet, though not if your PC PSU, plugtop chargers or CFL lamps have interference at the legal limit.

It's a pair of unlicenced wideband Transmitter & Receiver using COFDM signals nearly 30MHz wide (or on newer types nearly 200MHz wide interfering with FM, Mobile, Aeronautical, Marine too!), similar to DSL technology.

But phone wires are balanced twisted pair.

Mains wire is unbalanced and not twisted

Google homeplug RF interference
It's a very serious issue and will get worse if more people use them. The newer faster type home "mains" networking are much worse.

They are not really sending ethernet over the mains. That's a lie. They are transmitters. if you power one end from UPS or invertor not connected to mains they will still "connect".

They self certify for EMC by testing a single non-communicating unit. So it "passes". When used in real life as a pair carrying data the Interference level is many times the legal limit.

I am familiar with the technology and its strengths and limitations.

1. From a consumer perspective it works very well, in all but a small number of cases. It is a perfectly viable solution for high speed broadband and video streaming.

2. The technology is entirely legal, many companies self-certify for EMC, to do so they must use an approved methodology.

3. For the avoidance of doubt the potential interference with FM, Mobile, Aeronautical and Marine is a nuisance issue for hobbyists, it is not a safety issue. (Unfortunate, yes; inevitable, most likely. Nobody suggests turning off street lights so that amateur astronomers can pursue their hobby.)

4. The technology is in widespread use in the UK and is set to become more popular in Ireland as high speed broadband rolls out.

watty

The method of certification is totally erronous and flawed. There is a problem. Independent consultants hired by Ofcom prove it's serious and will get worse.

The mains networking makers have "gamed" the system.

As the technology becomes more popular we will reach a "tipping point" in interference.

EMC limits are not to be decided by commerical desire and lazyness of 90% of people to either run Cat5 or WiFi. The makers have been proven to be totally cheating because the test rules never envisaged transmitters that are turned of during test.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

EMC limits are not to be decided by commerical desire and lazyness of 90% of people to either run Cat5 or WiFi.

So everyone should re-wire their homes, a somewhat daunting exercise, to prevent a small inconvenience to Amateur Radio hobbyists?? (My home is Cat 5 wired, btw.)

watty wrote: »

The makers have been proven to be totally cheating because the test rules never envisaged transmitters that are turned of during test.

Reference?

watty

That's a myth. It's not just the Amateur Radio.

homer911

watty wrote: »

The method of certification is totally erronous and flawed. There is a problem. Independent consultants hired by Ofcom prove it's serious and will get worse.

The mains networking makers have "gamed" the system.

As the technology becomes more popular we will reach a "tipping point" in interference.

EMC limits are not to be decided by commerical desire and lazyness of 90% of people to either run Cat5 or WiFi. The makers have been proven to be totally cheating because the test rules never envisaged transmitters that are turned of during test.

I dont think anyone uses Homeplug where Wifi is a viable option - and very few people will go to the trouble, expense and mess of fitting cat 5 cable in their home

watty

Cat5e is FAR cheaper than homeplug. Also can be very neat.
Cheaper also than WiFi, which is cheaper than homeplug.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

NewHillel wrote: »

3. For the avoidance of doubt the potential interference with FM, Mobile, Aeronautical and Marine is a nuisance issue for hobbyists, it is not a safety issue. (Unfortunate, yes; inevitable, most likely. Nobody suggests turning off street lights so that amateur astronomers can pursue their hobby.)

That's a myth. It's not just the Amateur Radio.

What part is the myth? If you have evidence of any substantive issue, other than Homeplug causing a minor nuisance in some installations, I am extremely interested. (I am certain that there is no health and safety issue which indicates that any potential for interference to Aeronautical and Marine bands is limited and highly localised.)

WiFi is extremely difficult to set up in some modern buildings, due to moisture barriers acting as a shield. It can be done, often with the help of repeaters, but it is difficult and expensive. In the vast majority of such cases Homeplug technology acts as a viable alternative.

watty wrote: »

Cat5e is FAR cheaper than homeplug. Also can be very neat.

A b/s Powerline Adapter Twin Pack is around €50!http://www.ebuyer.com/product/160665 How could a Cat 5 (e) solution be cheaper?

slicedpanman

NewHillel wrote: »

A b/s Powerline Adapter Twin Pack is around €50!http://www.ebuyer.com/product/160665 How could a Cat 5 (e) solution be cheaper?

Not to guess at Watty's reasoning but I would expect that it is cheaper to run...

goverfe

I find the Homeplug a very convenient and tidy solution. Performance is faster than the wi-fi network I used to have. Laptops, the Internet radio and the IP phone can be moved around the house at will, just plug into any electrical socket. The Homeplugs weren't cheap, I used high-end Homeplug devices with integrated electrical sockets so that I wouldn't "lose" the wall socket into where the Homeplug is installed. I spent about €270 on 6 of these Homeplugs.

Implementing a Cat 5 solution which would give such flexibility would surely be expensive in an existing house, cables would be unsightly unless time/money was spent on hiding the cables and/or on redecorating. Cat 5 would cost less in a new house, being installed along with the electrical wiring.

NewHillel

goverfe wrote: »

Implementing a Cat 5 solution which would give such flexibility would surely be expensive in an existing house, cables would be unsightly unless time/money was spent on hiding the cables and/or on redecorating. Cat 5 would cost less in a new house, being installed along with the electrical wiring.

I wired my house with Cat 5, thinking I'd be ahead of the pack. It is a very good ideal and, IMO, should be standard for all new builds. However, I am not aware of any cost effective solution for using Cat 5 for general video distribution. (Though I am aware of solutions in the pipeline.) At the moment what I really need is two satellite grade cables to each room. I have this in some, but not all.

watty

Cat5e supports 1Gbps ethernet to 100m. Two cat5e cables can be used with adaptor for HDMI. Decent adaptors support 100m. You can run SCART over 2 x CAT5e for about 500m. HD from BD playback peaks at about 21Mbps. CAT5e with Switch can support about 20 connections of HD from a Media Server.

85Mbps Homeplug typically does 10Mbps to 30Mbps depending on other interference.
"real" Gbps ethernet over mains is very likely to be banned as it's much more blatant breaking of EMC rules (up to 200MHz) than regular Homplug and Comtrend, which is proven to exceed EMC limits 1MHz to 30MHz by 20dB (100x).

The more people have these the higher the background noise level rises 1MHz to 30MHz or 1MHz to 200MHz. These are wide band noise generators, worse than removing the EMC filter parts in PC PSUs (which some makers have done AFTER CE approval to save cost)