575 points and cant get into med school!

briankirby

Hi guys,
Ok so i did my leaving in 09 got 575 but a very poor 120 in the hpat.Repeated hpat last year and got 150.Still not enough to get in though.
I also applied non ukcat uk schools last year but had no work experience/volunteer work and i think that had something to do with nt even being offered an interview.
Do u guys have any advice for me and on what i should do?Im in 1st dent at the minute and although its a great course,i know that all i want to be is a doctor.
Eastern europe is high on my agenda at the minute.
Any suggestions would be very welcome and well appreciated!!
Thanks
brian

2Scoops

I don't think you will find an easier route into medicine than retaking the HPAT. Was there a problem with your approach before? Something in your preparation that you can change?

briankirby

2Scoops wrote: »

I don't think you will find an easier route into medicine than retaking the HPAT. Was there a problem with your approach before? Something in your preparation that you can change?

Thanks for the reply.i suck at aptitude tests in general,but what i do remember is that i REALLY needed to go to the bathroom during sec 3,to the point where i couldnt concentrate properly.
Guess ill try apply to irish/uk again and propbably head to east europe if no luck there,which is likely:(

Bbbbolger

This isn't meant as a dig at you but isn't the HPAT meant to determine your aptitude as a potential doctor? I know people well capable of achieving near 600 points in the leaving but they wouldn't be suited to being a doctor at all. There's no question you're intelligent enough but maybe you just don't posess the natural personal skills or logic associated with being a doctor. Again not meant as an insult to you just pointing out how one might read the situation.
Having said that you said concentration was an issue and every little counts in the HPAT. As far as I'm aware you have to do the HPAT within 2 years of your Leaving and since you've repeated wouldn't that mean you can't repeat the HPAT again without repeating all your exams? What would your chances be of getting into the UCAS system? Maybe you could get everything you need to do done during the summer e.g. work experience. Also I've heard that Eastern European training is worth a look if your heart is set on medicine.

ORLY?

I'm not sure that HPAT must be sat within 2 years of the LC. I know that the all the subjects and the required points must be gotten in the same year and that the HPAT score is valid for 2 years but I haven't seen it written any where that there is a 2 year expiry on the LC results.

Bbbbolger

It was something I thought I had heard although reading what you said there I more than likely got mixed up and it's really the HPAT applies for two years. Sorry for getting mixed up

WhosUpDocs

Bbbbolger wrote: »

This isn't meant as a dig at you but isn't the HPAT meant to determine your aptitude as a potential doctor? I know people well capable of achieving near 600 points in the leaving but they wouldn't be suited to being a doctor at all. There's no question you're intelligent enough but maybe you just don't posess the natural personal skills or logic associated with being a doctor. Again not meant as an insult to you just pointing out how one might read the situation.

To be honest I don't think this applies at all. The fact that you're so determined is proof enough that you're suited for Medicine in my view. I wouldn't let it put you off. If you really want it do it by any means necessary!

I'm saying all this as one of the first hpat babies. I wouldn't be in Med school if it wasn't for the hpat but I have no illusions that it's a good (or even adequate) predictor of my future aptitude as a Doctor!

take everything

WhosUpDocs wrote: »

To be honest I don't think this applies at all. The fact that you're so determined is proof enough that you're suited for Medicine in my view. I wouldn't let it put you off. If you really want it do it by any means

Thought that post was a bit harsh as well.
Determination and having a love for it is important when it comes to Medicine.

Bbbbolger

Sorry. I re-read my post and I did sound a bit harsh. What I meant to convey was that I know some very intelligent students who are very academically determined but have no real personal skills what-so-ever. Intelligence, determination and heart are very important in a doctor but you do need to be good with people too. I have no idea if the OP is like this and he's probably a brilliant people person. I was just speculating.

I think I got too carried away with my first post. Hope you understand what I was trying to get at now. Apologies.

briankirby

Bbbbolger wrote: »

Sorry. I re-read my post and I did sound a bit harsh. What I meant to convey was that I know some very intelligent students who are very academically determined but have no real personal skills what-so-ever. Intelligence, determination and heart are very important in a doctor but you do need to be good with people too. I have no idea if the OP is like this and he's probably a brilliant people person. I was just speculating.

I think I got too carried away with my first post. Hope you understand what I was trying to get at now. Apologies.

No bother,i didnt take it personally anyway,understood what u are saying.
Thanks for your help guys!
SO,does everyone agree that redoing the hpat would be the best option and then apply to uk over the summer??
Thanks again

AndrewJD

You just need to give yourself a better chance. Applying to the UK without at least 2-4 weeks work experience, a solid base of volunteer work and/or good demonstrable personal qualities (they like sports for teamwork, they like community based things etc) wrapped up in a kick-ass personal statement is suicide.

There's little point reapplying to the UK unless you can satisfy all the criteria. Look around all the admissions pages and you'll build up an idea of what you need to have to be in with a shot.

If Medicine is what you want to do, by all means, get applying - just be aware that these 'Non-academic criteria' can account for up to 50% of their selection procedures.

As well as that (and I don't want to discourage you, but just as a warning) a lot of universities aren't keen on you dropping out of a course to do Medicine. I seem to recall a lot of Scottish universities having this down in FAQ sections regarding transferring courses. They think it shows lack of commitment. I know, it sucks.

IN CONCLUSION: You may as well try, but if you really suck at the HPAT, and the UK seems like a route you can take, concentrate on bumping up a future application, than rushing a poor one in now.

Breezer

WhosUpDocs wrote: »

To be honest I don't think this applies at all. The fact that you're so determined is proof enough that you're suited for Medicine in my view.

+1. I'm pre-HPAT, took a bit of it last year as part of a research project, and my god was it hard. I hate to think what I would've scored on the actual thing.

I aced the Leaving Cert back in the day, so you might think I'm one of these "academically gifted" people with no interpersonal skills. You would be wrong. 6 years of college has taught me that doing well in the Leaving does not make you a genius by any means (certainly not in my case), and the one thing patients, tutors and colleagues consistently praise me on is my bedside manner.

Incidentally, some of the top surgeons in the Mater and Beaumont flunked the HPAT a year or so ago. Surgeon jokes aside, in my view the HPAT doesn't measure what it's supposed to. It does make a lot of money for an Australian company though, and gives the government a warm, fuzzy feeling that they're reforming education.

Anyway OP, regarding the volunteering, have you considered Barrettstown? There's a long waiting list for volunteers there, but you could also try your local Lions club or equivalent, SVP, Barnardos, outreach society in your current college, etc. There's plenty of opportunities out there.

briankirby

Breezer wrote: »

+1. I'm pre-HPAT, took a bit of it last year as part of a research project, and my god was it hard. I hate to think what I would've scored on the actual thing.

I aced the Leaving Cert back in the day, so you might think I'm one of these "academically gifted" people with no interpersonal skills. You would be wrong. 6 years of college has taught me that doing well in the Leaving does not make you a genius by any means (certainly not in my case), and the one thing patients, tutors and colleagues consistently praise me on is my bedside manner.

Incidentally, some of the top surgeons in the Mater and Beaumont flunked the HPAT a year or so ago. Surgeon jokes aside, in my view the HPAT doesn't measure what it's supposed to. It does make a lot of money for an Australian company though, and gives the government a warm, fuzzy feeling that they're reforming education.

Anyway OP, regarding the volunteering, have you considered Barrettstown? There's a long waiting list for volunteers there, but you could also try your local Lions club or equivalent, SVP, Barnardos, outreach society in your current college, etc. There's plenty of opportunities out there.

thanks for the words of encouragement.Well,im already a sea and rescue volunteer since last summer but id seriously consider barretstown for a couple of weeks,no doubt.
Does anyone know how hard it is to get work experience in a hospital or with a gp?Like,would they be willing?Cant imagine theyd be keen:(
Thanks

fifofum

OP, I appreciate your desire to get into medicine. However, there are students out there who have a similar desire to enter dentistry as a profession. If you're serious about leaving dentistry& persuing medicine, would you not consider leaving the course now& doing volunteer work for the rest of the year for your med CV?

briankirby

fifofum wrote: »

OP, I appreciate your desire to get into medicine. However, there are students out there who have a similar desire to enter dentistry as a profession. If you're serious about leaving dentistry& persuing medicine, would you not consider leaving the course now& doing volunteer work for the rest of the year for your med CV?

Hi,
For a few reasons:
1.Iv heard that basic sciences for med in eastern europe is extremely difficult for lots of students.The more exposure i get in dentistry,the better chances of passing over there
2.My parents want me to see the year out.They dont mind the cost.Last thing they want is me hanging about all day
3.iv made tons of friends in dent and enjoy the social aspect of the course.Id rather that than being isolated for the rest of the year.

fifofum

All valid points, I can see where you're coming from. Just frustrating for those who have a real vocation for dentistry!

Nonoperational

I was in a very similar situation to yourself. Got 560 in the LC (about 6 years ago now so no HPAT). Did pharmacy, worked for a year and made some money and now I'm doing graduate medicine in UCC. The Gamsat was no bother after doing pharmacy. If you really want to do it it's possible. Your only young yet!

Breezer

briankirby wrote: »

Does anyone know how hard it is to get work experience in a hospital or with a gp?Like,would they be willing?Cant imagine theyd be keen:(

GPs take students for electives all the time but I'm not sure how keen they'd be if you weren't enrolled as a student somewhere yet. Maybe on a purely observational basis but I'm not sure how keen patients would be on a prospective student sitting in on their consultation.

The Royal Hospital, Donnybrook, definitely takes volunteers. There was a group of Transition Year students there when I was on placement there. I'm not entirely sure what they do, I doubt it's "work experience" as such, but it is a hospital. Might be worth checking out.

Bella mamma

Hi there. You don't need to do much with your Sea and Rescue work (I think that's what you said) and very well done on that. I'm impressed! As would others be at an interview. Hopefully thou it won't come to that. Go for an acute general hospital (1 week) and a rehab hospital (1 week). Definitely not a GP office.

The amount of grads in TCD/RCSI/UCD/UCC/UL/NUIG is huge. You're among a massive group of people who have done a course that they never wanted to do, and then did med as a grad - science, pharm, densitry, pharmacy, radiotherapy, physio are the big grad feeder courses. Fee wise, thou, you need to get out asap. No one can take your dentistry place now so it doesn't matter what year you leave.

The HPAT etc is, in my learned opinion, ridiculous. People are correct, most doctors would do terribly on it. Keep at the HPAT - morning, noon, night and day. I have high hopes for you! Consider NI (Queens) as your UK port of call as a back up. Need honours chemistry. Let us know how you get on. Well done on your LC. HTH.

bythewoods

I know you say you don't want to be a dentist, but as far as great bases go, you couldn't be in a better course now imo.

Did you know that if you finish your dentistry degree you can enter into 3rd year medicine (ie, skip the first 2 non-clinical years) and just do a 3 year course (To become a maxillofacial surgeon- one of the highest paid medical professions)

Also, in dentistry you get a lot of clinical exposure. In 3rd year (If you're in Trinity, I'm assuming you are) you do clinical stuff in Tallaght/James' hospital with 2nd meds.

Even in terms of going into GEM or into med as a mature student, you couldn't be in a better course right now, if you want to stick at it.

You could always try re-doing the HPAT again I guess. I know someone who got in on their 3rd shot at med this year... it happens!
I don't think the HPAT is the best indication of compatibility with Medicine by the way, don't be disheartened. There's people in my class and it shocks me that they got through with the HPAT!

And do reapply for England! I remember looking into medicine over there (never actually applied, but did consider it.)
Exeter, I think, is one of the easier schools to get into, and with those points you shouldn't find it too hard. Also, the clinical aspect of dentistry should probably give you a bit of a head start!

Best of luck!

lctake2

I think that you'd have a great chance at going up in the HPAT. I'm in premed now and there's a girl in my year who got below the 20th percentile the first time she took it and then went up to the 70th i think it was. I know they're expensive but do a prep course and it really helps in section 3. I know it's meant to be about apptitude but there are loads in my class in UCD that went way up when they reapeated it. If not, then graduate medicine is the best way to go if financially that's an option. Best of luck

briankirby

Thanks guys,for the words of encouragement
Appreciate it,will let ye know how i get on

Sid_Justice

I wouldn't bother with completing the denistry degree. Dentistry, pharmacy and physio are a great base for medicine but medicine is a better base for medicine. Reapply this year, and get the place. It will save you $1000s in the long run

briankirby

AndrewJD wrote: »

You just need to give yourself a better chance. Applying to the UK without at least 2-4 weeks work experience, a solid base of volunteer work and/or good demonstrable personal qualities (they like sports for teamwork, they like community based things etc) wrapped up in a kick-ass personal statement is suicide.

Just on this point.I have 2 aunts who are nurses in dublin hospitals.Do u think shadowing them(if its possible) for a few weeks would count as work experience??
Thanks

Chunky Monkey

AndrewJD wrote: »

As well as that (and I don't want to discourage you, but just as a warning) a lot of universities aren't keen on you dropping out of a course to do Medicine. I seem to recall a lot of Scottish universities having this down in FAQ sections regarding transferring courses. They think it shows lack of commitment. I know, it sucks.

IN CONCLUSION: You may as well try, but if you really suck at the HPAT, and the UK seems like a route you can take, concentrate on bumping up a future application, than rushing a poor one in now.

I spoke quite a bit at my interview about how I had dropped out of a natural sciences course at TCD and bumbled around for a bit because I lost my self confidence to do anything. I'm in third year now. I think a really important thing to do when applying to the UK, is to research the unis you apply to. Scottish universities also don't like people who have repeated the LC. Whereas somewhere like UEA don't seem to mind that at all.

I don't know what the HPAT is like but the UKCAT is quite easy, my maths teacher told my dad I was one of the stupider people in my class. I also don't think it really assesses ones aptitude for a caring profession.

I went to two group interviews when applying for nursing in London. It was interesting to see what people were like at those and I think they should consider it for medicine.

Chunky Monkey

briankirby wrote: »

Just on this point.I have 2 aunts who are nurses in dublin hospitals.Do u think shadowing them(if its possible) for a few weeks would count as work experience??
Thanks

Absolutely, and you might even get a job out of it. Just to warn you though, when I did that, the first thing I did was wash a patient.

MichaelFC

briankirby wrote: »

Hi guys,
Ok so i did my leaving in 09 got 575 but a very poor 120 in the hpat.Repeated hpat last year and got 150.Still not enough to get in though.
I also applied non ukcat uk schools last year but had no work experience/volunteer work and i think that had something to do with nt even being offered an interview.
Do u guys have any advice for me and on what i should do?Im in 1st dent at the minute and although its a great course,i know that all i want to be is a doctor.
Eastern europe is high on my agenda at the minute.
Any suggestions would be very welcome and well appreciated!!
Thanks
brian

Hi Brian, any chance you would consider a career in maxillofacial surgery?

It's a subspeciality in surgery that requires a primary dental degree. After obtaining your dental degree move into an accelerated medical degree in any of the colleges here, citing a long-term view of max-fax in applications.

There's a very unassuming, dedicated man, Dylan Murray, in Temple Street Children's Hospital and the Mater Hospital. His calibre are few and far between here (and anywhere!) and well worth looking into.

Best of luck,

M