Weather...

5500

Im just wondering how the various services are coping with the current conditions? Is there a drop off or increase in calls with the garda? I'd assume in Dublin there must be a long delay in ambulance call's over normal at the minute.

Also are the voluntarys being utilised at all or indeed properly? My own CD unit hasn't been mobilised whereas in the snow in January we were out and about.

civdef

Less RTAs (serious ones at least)
Loads and loads of chimney fires.

In this neck of the woods the CD, OMAC and RC are all out and about, CD mostly assisting the Gardai and local authority, OMAC and RC assisting the HSE.

touge_drift

have been out with omac yesterday and all today and this evening in our 4x4. assisting the hse with pts work and what ever else is asked.

ive seen all the privates out in force also the red cross and the odd civil defence vehicle out and about. my god its cold out!
stay safe out there on the roads folks and best of luck

one2one

My AFS unit has been out last 3 days, clearing A&E entrances and helping with PT transporting. Keep up the good work everyone.

Smokey Bear

Well a bit of a rant I apologise in advance ,its just very frustrating not being able to do your job properly because of lack of resources.I believe this affects all ES that I have seen in Dublin and maybe across the country madness eh!!

Well with the snowy weather that Dublin has experienced last weekend and even more in the last few days.It has had an effect on Dublin Fire Brigades ability to responed to emergency calls for both Fire , Rescue and Ambulance calls.In Howth over last weekend there was a major problem in responding no cover at all at times .This lack of response or time delay in responding spread to other areas in Dublin County and City with the continued inclement weather.Dublin Fire Brigade experienced this last year in the wintery weather conditions but they don’t have the funding to make appropriate corrective action.

On Saturday night the Ambulance and Fire Engine from Kilbarrack Fire station responded to a reported car crash on the top of Howth Head just after 23:00hrs. But due to the ice and snowy conditions they were unable to make it up any of the hills in Howth.
It must be very embarrassing and frustrating for crews seeing members of the public drive by in jeeps with no problems getting up the hills while they tried to respond .This was not the only case to which they had major difficulties getting to in Dublin over last weekend.

It may surprise you that Dublin Fire Brigade do not have any 4 wheel drive front line capability either in relation to a Fire Engine , Ambulance or even a Jeep.They have 3 jeeps but these are not available for emergency responses for crews (I know as I have requested them for incidents).On Saturday night Dublin Fire Brigade had to seek the assistant of Howth Coast Guard to assist with their 4x4 Jeep based in Howth once requested Howth Coast Guard were available to respond in minutes and assisted Dublin Fire Brigade in attending the scene.But this took 90 mins to finally get assistance in order to respond.The Gardai had a jeep but said it would take over 90mins to get there. http://www.howthcoastguard.com/
It took until Tuesday night to put in place a plan CD were based in Howth CG Station with varies vehicles just for the one night.

Why is this the case?
The front line primary lead agency for Fire Rescue and Ambulance service that serves Dublin is Dublin Fire Brigade DFB.Unfortunately the services are under funded.The councils refuse to do a full risk assessment of the risk in Dublin because they know that the risks out there are not covered and to bring them up to international best practice will cost money.
The frustrating thing is that other secondary response agencies such as the Civil Defence in Dublin who are part funded by Dublin City Council have better equipment in regard to 4x4 capability.They are been given money to equip their organisation properly and rightly so.They have the ability to purchase appropriate equipment.
But would this equipment not be better served and utilised with a front line primary lead agency such as Dublin Fire Brigade which has to provide a Fire Rescue and Ambulance service that is capable of responding 24/7/356 with 90 secs turn out?

This is what people expect a Fire Rescue and Ambulance service to have and this is what saves the most lives.Case in point a cardiac arrest the other day normal response to location from station would be 3 mins but due to road conditions that motor could not cope with and traffic took 20mins response.

Peoples expectations and even GPs believe that we have snow tires and 4 wheel drive and even a fleet of 4x4 response vehicles and that it would be safer to travel by ambulance than by car.This mistaken belief is putting undue pressure on service.

Should the priority not be to get the front line primary lead agency service adequately resources and funded and then fund necessary secondary response units with relevant equipment and training?

Maybe move the required equipment from Civil Defence in Dublin to Dublin Fire Brigade and have it available to be crewed when needed and not just made available by Civil Defence with no guarantee of availability to response or even response time?

Smokey Bear

5500

I always thought DFB had rrv/jeeps, I remember seeing one's a good while back with "advanced life support" stickers on them, presumably carrying AP interns but thought that they could be used at present in the above scenario.

It must be frustrating with the likes of an arrest too, knowing the time is ticking but theres nothing you can do to get there any quicker.

Are the local authorties providing adequate access to hospitals, stations ect with ploughs?

civdef

I can think of at least three (maybe more) 4x4s (Isuzus and a Land Rover?) that DFB sold off in the last few years that had very little work done? They must have been sold at a considerable discount. Maybe it's a case of making better use of existing assets before looking for more?

Smokey Bear

Existing assets that would be appropriate for task at hand is key, they aren't appropriate for PT transport.
Current jeeps would need to be modified and would have limited capability in current state or even modified state.

Those stickers are now gone.The 2 jeeps in question were ambulance support vehicles did not last long in that role.

Yeah very very short sighted in selling them.The ones that were sold where the tunnel jeeps rock bottom price one was retained now used by garage.The other One was defender with caffs system, H&S said it could not be used.

DFB don't seem to understand the difference between 4wheel drive capability for on road used due inclement weather and off road use.Thats why we cant use them.It's now all because the crews have not done an off road course I believe ??But crews did do a tunnel jeep course.
Crews have been driving the other jeeps in the job for years one was D108 van man or river rescue unit for a while due vehicle shortage.But come bad weather cant use them when they are really needed madness??

Do other agencies do such a course for 4 wheel drive vehicles that are to be used on roads ??

It would be more appropriate to equip front line primary lead agency with adequate resources in the first place and have a well resourced secondary response that is able to back up front line response as well.

Smokey Bear

maglite

To be fair I can see an argument being formed that the need for these 4x4's is so low that it does make better sense to mobilize the Vols and use their4x4 with additional HSE/DFB crew.


The right answer might be to get onto CD/CG/RC/SJA/OMAC get them to turn out with their driver and crew with paramedics. They all have a fleet of 4x4s and better.

Smokey Bear

The dedication of the vols agencies is amazing. It must be great to be able to practice your skill level and have adequate vehicle type available to you to transport your PT.Its very frustrating when you don't. Its not fun in the back of ambo that is sliding and you cant see out !!
The vols cant guarantee availability to respond or even response time,in protracted spell these vols still have to go to work/school/college etc so cover will be reduced.Emergency services work 24/7 vol aren't always on duty.The vols do a great job and are a great help.

How do we know the need is so low?With apx 1730 incidents in Dublin a week for DFB, say 5% of these need 4 wheel drive assistance during this inclement spell thats apx 86 incidents at all times of the day.Usually during spells like this demand increases.

Financial factors.
In the UK the cost to the economy of a fire / accident related death has been established @ 1.2 million sterling per death ,this is a UK government figure.So the inability for crews to attend fires or accident scenes in a time frame that could save life does have a financial cost to the economy.Rapid treatment is key for survival of life.This rapid response also reducing hospital stay reducing cost yet again for the economy.

With ambulance cases being queued for over 2hrs at times yesterday it was mad more of this is going to happen also coupled with delays in A+E and ambulance being tied up its only going to get worse.

Also the cost to the economy of the closures of infrastructural transport networks due incident does have a cost factor per hour. Say there is an RTA on M50 3 lanes blocked due accident the speed at which motors and ambulances can respond is key in dealing with incident and getting scene safe and other agencies to clear scene is key.
Time is money for the economy and the closure of a major infrastructural road network cost the economy millions per hour.

The Financial justification for these resources can easily be made by front line primary lead agencies even if they are not used that often(that is 4 wheel drive aspect) it is when they are required that the need for them becomes apparent and financial outlay justified.The bigger picture just has to be looked at by all and how it is all interlinked.

Sure before this bad weather there was an RTA on M1 and it took over 60 mins for ambulance to respond for person on spinal board traffic madness was caused by this delay.This due to the on going shortage of ambulances.

Smokey Bear

civdef

Another factor worth mentioning is the 4x4 ambulances in use by vol agencies generally weren't all that expensive, being either surplus MOD Land Rovers (Around 15k) or converted Landcruisers (around 50k).

Rialtas

I don't think anyone can make a valid argument against expanding the 4WD fleet in the DFB on a risk or cost benefit basis, when you consider that most stations in Cork County have a 4x4 capability, and Cork City, which has less than 10% of the population of Dublin County, has at least two Ford 4x4 response vehicles.

Urban Dublin is only one part of the DFB catchment if I'm not mistaken? The mountains in the south of the County and the agriculture areas up past Swords are just as rural as any other Irish county so at the very least any of these stations should have a 4x4. In an ideal world, all those station officer sedans would be changed to 4x4.

As an outsider, it actually beggars belief. I am quite baffled at the stupidity really

999nobody

The Advanced Paramedic response car in the North East has been taken off the road until further notice due to the weather as it does not have 4 wheel drive capability.

Drogheda Fire & Rescue have a jeep that drove past me yesterday, and I'm fairly sure it had chains on the wheels.


Seen a Garda car sliding past me (quite comically, actually ) recently, so they obviously haven't got much equipment to cope. That said, they had a lightning fast response to an emergency call I made in January. They arrived at my house (literally) five minutes after I rang them, in their Traffic Corps jeep.

Don't know anything about the jeep, whether it be 4x4 or not, but they were fast in it, considering the weather.


I've noticed that Drogheda River Rescue and Boyne Fishermen Rescue and Recovery jeeps seem to be around a fair bit. I haven't been out much but when I have been out, I've seen them driving around the place. Dunno if they're looking for people who are stuck or need help or such, but I think that's what they're doing.


Haven't seen an ambulance out and about yet, or a fire tender. Haven't seen anything on blues either.

Smokey Bear

Well this tops it all even 98FM have a better response capability than DFB they have jeeps helping out people in Dublin.

http://www.98fm.com/uncategorized/the-98fm-snowbusters/

"98FM will help you fight the big freeze!

The 98FM Snowbusters are out and about in their 4x4s throughout the city helping the people of Dublin! If your daughter needs to get to her school play, or you need to get to the airport to catch an important flight, or if you need to get to the shops for the weekend’s food, then The 98FM Snowbusters are here to help!

Text BUSTER to 53981 for the help of the 98FM Snowbusters! NOW IS GOOD!"

Control room now forwarding call on to them for assistance!!

Smokey Bear