"Leave Ireland now" Denis Brosnan

Vourney

I would like to see if anyone else is interested in discussing these statements and the article

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Leave-Ireland-now-says-multi-millionaire-businessman-Denis-Brosnan-110958439.html

Denis Brosnan is the founder of The Kerry Group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Group

zig

Anyone that read my posts will know that I am against accusing the 'doom and gloom' guys as scare mongerers, but I even think this is a bit much, its quite dangerous to be saying stuff like that imo.

Sticky_Fingers

zig wrote: »

Anyone that read my posts will know that I am against accusing the 'doom and gloom' guys as scare mongerers, but I even think this is a bit much, its quite dangerous to be saying stuff like that imo.

How so? I have yet to hear anyone get off their arse and tell us their plans for job creation or for lowering unemployment. Its the elephant in the room and its getting more and more frustrated the longer it is ignored. We have been swept up by talk of massive bailouts and tax increases but in order to help pay for this stuff we need more jobs and every party has been very quiet when it comes to their master plan in this regard.

zig

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

How so? I have yet to hear anyone get off their arse and tell us their plans for job creation or for lowering unemployment. Its the elephant in the room and its getting more and more frustrated the longer it is ignored. We have been swept up by talk of massive bailouts and tax increases but in order to help pay for this stuff we need more jobs and every party has been very quiet when it comes to their master plan in this regard.

Maybe, but its one thing letting emigration take its course (and it will!!), but its another thing encouraging it. Just because hes right doesnt mean he should be saying something like that in public, my logic behind that is, it only makes things worse than its already going to be.

Sticky_Fingers

zig wrote: »

Maybe, but its one thing letting emigration take its course (and it will!!), but its another thing encouraging it. Just because hes right doesnt mean he should be saying something like that in public, my logic behind that is, it only makes things worse than its already going to be.

Sorry but he is saying exactly what needs to be said. We can't sugarcoat the harsh realties anymore, people are going to have to leave this country to find hope of employment and a chance at a decent wage. I don't want to be saying this since I will be one of them leaving my home but I can't see any future employment prospects in this country in the near future, things are going to get a lot worse with regards the economy before they get better.

Lenihan Snr once said that this country was too small for all of us to live here. I don't believe this to be a fundamental law of nature but simply a result of the gross mismanagement Bertie, Cowen and Lenny Jnr have shown over the last decade. This country should be able to support all its children but unfortunately we will once again be exporting our best and brightest because there's not enough jobs in FF Ireland to support all of us and we as a nation are worst off because of it.

jonnybravo

The biggest problem I have with what Brosnan is saying is the generic nature of just telling everyone to leave. There are still jobs in Ireland if you have the right qualifications. I know several people that have gotten jobs in the last few months (accounting and IT related) so there are jobs out there. I know some sectors are majorly struggling (obviously construction) and these people might have to leave the country to get employment but I just think it’s wrong to encourage every young person to leave the country.

I think its articles like this and others that is feeding the overhyping of the crisis in Ireland.

M three

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

Sorry but he is saying exactly what needs to be said. We can't sugarcoat the harsh realties anymore, people are going to have to leave this country to find hope of employment and a chance at a decent wage. I don't want to be saying this since I will be one of them leaving my home but I can't see any future employment prospects in this country in the near future, things are going to get a lot worse with regards the economy before they get better.

Lenihan Snr once said that this country was too small for all of us to live here. I don't believe this to be a fundamental law of nature but simply a result of the gross mismanagement Bertie, Cowen and Lenny Jnr have shown over the last decade. This country should be able to support all its children but unfortunately we will once again be exporting our best and brightest because there's not enough jobs in FF Ireland to support all of us and we as a nation are worst off because of it.

Complete tosh. population density here is way below that of England. Please dont use anything lenihan snr or junior has said a justification for anything. They'd love everyone to piss off just so they wouldnt have to bother their arses reforming the social welfare system or implementing a proper jobs creation strategy.

I-Shot-Jr

At the end of the day all he has is his word.

I doubt anyone is going to leave because "Denis Brosnan" said so. They're going to leave because the economic situation here is dire and the job market doesn't seem to display any immediate signals of improving.

When I get my degree I'm leaving and taking my four languages and skills with me. Not because Denis Brosnan said so but because I have no hope of finding a decent job here compared to the ones I could get abroad.

Sticky_Fingers

M three wrote: »

Complete tosh. population density here is way below that of England. Please dont use anything lenihan snr or junior has said a justification for anything. They'd love everyone to piss off just so they wouldnt have to bother their arses reforming the social welfare system or implementing a proper jobs creation strategy.

I suggest you read my comment completely before commenting. I said that in FF's Ireland there is not enough jobs for everyone. I said that in a well run country there should be plenty of employment for those who want it.

Vourney

Do you think it's possible he's intentionally scare-mongering because he has an agenda.

He was the or a founder of the Kerry Group, and while I don't think he's active in the company, I believe he's a shareholder. I checked their investor relations pages and for the 6 months ended June 30, sales were up 6.7% to 2.4 billion. Profits were up 19.5% to 141 million. I know they're a global company while over 50% of sales come from EMEA (Europe, Middle East & Africa) I didn't see percent sales from Ireland and UK.

Point being, things are so awful all the minions must flee, but things are not so bad for the Kerry Group. It makes me suspicious.

Dannyboy83

Cannot understand why people even contemplate criticising him.

If a guy, being interviewed by the Sunday Independent, gives his opinion that there is no future for the 50% of 25yo Males who are unemployed over 2 years with no visible light at the end of the tunnel - and you take offence at this - you clearly have a trouble free life.

It's not unpatriotic, it's called a dose of reality.

Geographically, this island is not too small for the population, but economically it is - and it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon, so if you're hanging on here to get a job - do yourself a favour and don't waste your life.

That's the message.

nesf

Completely overblowing it to be honest. Things were a lot bleaker job wise in the 70s and 80s and many of those posting here will have parents who started their careers in those decades. Yes recessions are tough but jobs do still exist. Though if you're a builder and not willing to retrain then yeah, emigration is probably a decent option. I'd recommend retraining though.

swampgas

Sticky_Fingers wrote: »

How so? I have yet to hear anyone get off their arse and tell us their plans for job creation or for lowering unemployment. Its the elephant in the room and its getting more and more frustrated the longer it is ignored. We have been swept up by talk of massive bailouts and tax increases but in order to help pay for this stuff we need more jobs and every party has been very quiet when it comes to their master plan in this regard.

Is not the way to create jobs to manage the economy properly when times are good and fund education and infrastructure? I can't see a way to "create jobs" out of thin air while simultaneously digging the country out of a massive deficit.
IMO this is the high price of having squandered the genuine growth we have had. If there is a way to create a significant number of jobs right now I'd love to learn more about it.

swampgas

nesf wrote: »

Completely overblowing it to be honest. Things were a lot bleaker job wise in the 70s and 80s and many of those posting here will have parents who started their careers in those decades. Yes recessions are tough but jobs do still exist. Though if you're a builder and not willing to retrain then yeah, emigration is probably a decent option. I'd recommend retraining though.

Does anyone have statistics for the levels of emigration in those decades? Just because some here started careers then doesn't mean that many more didn't emigrate. On the other hand families were bigger then too which may have added to the pressure on the job market.

nesf

swampgas wrote: »

Is not the way to create jobs to manage the economy properly when times are good and fund education and infrastructure? I can't see a way to "create jobs" out of thin air while simultaneously digging the country out of a massive deficit.

You can't create jobs out of thin air without directly employing them but you can encourage job growth through supply side actions, like maintaining low corporation tax rates, cutting PRSI employer payments for new employees and so on.

dan_d

It's a very sensationalist headline, but what he's saying is true.

There won't be many jobs for the next 4-5 years. What was the unemployment estimate given by the Government during their 4 year plan? They reckon it will come down to 10% by 2014? (I'm open to correction).

That's still high unemployment levels. Fact is, there just aren't enough jobs out there for everyone and there won't be for the forseeable future. And I for one can't wait another 4 or 5 years. I have a life too, and I want to work.And if I have to go abroad for that to happen, then that's what I have to do.

Mister men

He's bang on the money. Way to many people with have their heads buried in the sand.

Dannyboy83

nesf wrote: »

You can't create jobs out of thin air without directly employing them but you can encourage job growth through supply side actions, like maintaining low corporation tax rates, cutting PRSI employer payments for new employees and so on.

What do you think we are not currently doing, which we could be doing, to stimulate/encourage new opportunities?
I think this is one area where we tend to be quite strong.
There were some innovative schemes, such as in 2009, where the government were subsidising workers pay in private companies, by paying the standard rate of social welfare.

I agree with retraining to go abroad.
There seem to an awful lot of people here who have retrained and are still unable to find work - there may of course be more than 1 reason for this.

nesf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

What do you think we are not currently doing, which we could be doing, to stimulate/encourage new opportunities?
I think this is one area where we tend to be quite strong.
There were some innovative schemes, such as in 2009, where the government were subsidising workers pay in private companies, by paying the standard rate of social welfare.

I agree with retraining to go abroad.
There seem to an awful lot of people here who have retrained and are still unable to find work - there may of course be more than 1 reason for this.

I don't know, I've been depressed for the best part of six months so not being keeping up to date with what the Government has been doing in this area.

Dannyboy83

nesf wrote: »

I don't know, I've been depressed for the best part of six months so not being keeping up to date with what the Government has been doing in this area.

Yea, I remember you mentioned your bipolarism before mate

Get your bloods done, check test levels and thyroid levels.
Dump the anti-depressants and try Testosterone replacement therapy.
Get to the gym and get your endorphins flowing.
It has helped several people I know out of major slumps (runs in my family) - it may work for you too.

Get well soon

nesf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Yea, I remember you mentioned your bipolarism before mate

Get your bloods done, check test levels and thyroid levels.
Dump the anti-depressants and try Testosterone replacement therapy.
Get to the gym and get your endorphins flowing.
It has helped several people I know out of major slumps (runs in my family) - it may work for you too.

Get well soon

Without meds I'd be a real mess far worse that I am now. Believe me, I've been there.

Dannyboy83

nesf wrote: »

Without meds I'd be a real mess far worse that I am now. Believe me, I've been there.

Did you try any substitute?
Have you tried TRT?

nesf

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Did you try any substitute?
Have you tried TRT?

No because none have been proven to work for bipolar. I do use light therapy in winter though.

Anyway, this is way off-topic for this thread and should stop.

The_Honeybadger

nesf wrote: »

Without meds I'd be a real mess far worse that I am now. Believe me, I've been there.

I sympathise nesf, runs in my family too, awful affliction and so misunderstood by so many.

zig

swampgas wrote: »

Does anyone have statistics for the levels of emigration in those decades? Just because some here started careers then doesn't mean that many more didn't emigrate. On the other hand families were bigger then too which may have added to the pressure on the job market.

Not quite what your looking for but have a look at this, http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/population/current/popmig.pdf go to page 2, tbh the figures took me surprise,I would be interested in seeing the previous 10/20 years as well though.

jmayo

Vourney wrote: »

Do you think it's possible he's intentionally scare-mongering because he has an agenda.

He was the or a founder of the Kerry Group, and while I don't think he's active in the company, I believe he's a shareholder. I checked their investor relations pages and for the 6 months ended June 30, sales were up 6.7% to 2.4 billion. Profits were up 19.5% to 141 million. I know they're a global company while over 50% of sales come from EMEA (Europe, Middle East & Africa) I didn't see percent sales from Ireland and UK.

Point being, things are so awful all the minions must flee, but things are not so bad for the Kerry Group. It makes me suspicious.

What the hell are you trying to hint at ?
Kerry Group along some of our other agri businesses should be held up there as an example of what we can do.

Instead the local brickee done well was held up there as to what an entrepreneur should be.

Stop trying to discredit a very successful real entrepreneur because you don't like his message. :mad:

Trust me a lot of minions work in the Kerry Group and a lot of minions benefit from it.
In case you didn't notice the Kerry Group have sales in this country and less people mean less sales.

nesf wrote: »

Completely overblowing it to be honest. Things were a lot bleaker job wise in the 70s and 80s and many of those posting here will have parents who started their careers in those decades. Yes recessions are tough but jobs do still exist. Though if you're a builder and not willing to retrain then yeah, emigration is probably a decent option. I'd recommend retraining though.

In the 70s, 80s people expected to have to emigrate, there were always better prospects in the UK, the US and elsewhere.
Now all thsoe countries are suffering as well.
We did not have such a massive massive high level of personal debt as we do today so that makes today even worse.

Stop this myth about retraining.
Retrain as what ?
You cannot retrain 150,000 builders as basic computer technicians, data entry clerks, or chefs.
There will not be enough jobs for them.
It feeds nicely into the smart economy myth though. :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Yea, I remember you mentioned your bipolarism before mate

Get your bloods done, check test levels and thyroid levels.
Dump the anti-depressants and try Testosterone replacement therapy.
Get to the gym and get your endorphins flowing.
It has helped several people I know out of major slumps (runs in my family) - it may work for you too.

Get well soon

No mater how well meaning, please do not ever try and convince people who may be on meds to give them up and try some alternative.
I have seen the after affects and it ain't pretty.

Always get people to discuss this with a doctor first.

Sorry if off topic but I felt it needed to be said.

Dannyboy83

jmayo wrote: »

No mater how well meaning, please do not ever try and convince people who may be on meds to give them up and try some alternative.
I have seen the after affects and it ain't pretty.

Always get people to discuss this with a doctor first.

Sorry if off topic but I felt it needed to be said.

Yes, you are 100% right, I fully agree.
Sorry I should have clarified that he would need to consult a doctor to get Testosterone Replacement Therapy, it's not OTC in Ireland.

Sorry, I've manged to drag this thread totally off topic.

Back on topic folks.

nesf

jmayo wrote: »

In the 70s, 80s people expected to have to emigrate, there were always better prospects in the UK, the US and elsewhere.
Now all thsoe countries are suffering as well.
We did not have such a massive massive high level of personal debt as we do today so that makes today even worse.

Those countries were suffering in the 70s and 80s too mate. The two oil crises etc.

jmayo wrote: »

Stop this myth about retraining.
Retrain as what ?
You cannot retrain 150,000 builders as basic computer technicians, data entry clerks, or chefs.
There will not be enough jobs for them.
It feeds nicely into the smart economy myth though. :rolleyes:

Retraining myth? What else are they going to do? They'll need to retrain into different roles so that when the economy recovers in a few years they won't be all chasing jobs in the now greatly reduced pool of construction work.

Vourney

jmayo wrote: »

What the hell are you trying to hint at ?
Kerry Group along some of our other agri businesses should be held up there as an example of what we can do.

Instead the local brickee done well was held up there as to what an entrepreneur should be.

Stop trying to discredit a very successful real entrepreneur because you don't like his message. :mad:

Trust me a lot of minions work in the Kerry Group and a lot of minions benefit from it.
In case you didn't notice the Kerry Group have sales in this country and less people mean less sales.

Well, I didn't mean to offend anyone and I hope you're right. I'm in the US, so maybe that's why I'm so cynical, and just very used to listening to the high-up corporate folks lie, spin, maniuplate, etc. etc.

liammur

Vourney wrote: »

I would like to see if anyone else is interested in discussing these statements and the article

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Leave-Ireland-now-says-multi-millionaire-businessman-Denis-Brosnan-110958439.html

Denis Brosnan is the founder of The Kerry Group.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerry_Group

This guy is good, his report on Limerick was excellent, 14 years of total neglect of the region under FF, yet nothing has been implemented.