UPC Overcharging for nothing!

billyboy01

I have a 30meg Unlimited broadband connection, which is actually limited to 250GB DL/UL limit. I got my SMS bill reminder today to find I have been charge an extra 70 euro. So I rang the UPC accounts department, to be told I had been charged for exceeding the 250GB limit. Which made me see red as I am very careful not to even get close to the 250GB limit. I checked my traffic counter to find that I had only DL/UL 97GB for the month of November fromthe 1st to the 30th, today. No one else uses the Internet in my home, and the only other devices used are the laptop and iphone for net browsing, and a bit of online gaming on the Xbox! There is no way those devices could clock up an extra 150GB's of data. Anyway I was told that the tech support would ring me back before the end of the day, Im still waiting. So Im going to ring UPC back in the morning to sort this crap out! Any ideas or experiences, I have been told to make a complaint to ComReg, if Im fobbed off!

Knasher

First thing to mention is if you are using wireless that you are using WPA(2) and that you have a strong password. I'm sure you do, but just in case its possible a neighbour is leaching off you.

I remember a post from somebody who was accused of going over their limit despite being out of the country at the time and having their cable modem turned off for the duration. In his case (and perhaps yours - though unfortunately I can't think of a way to check) I'd guess that somebody had cloned his MAC address using a hacked router to steal internet. Seeing as the caps are most likely calculated using MAC addresses his traffic would count as yours. I don't work for UPC so perhaps they have closed this hole, but if they haven't your only recourse is to change your cable modem, though I also don't know how you would convince UPC to allow you to do this.
Of course this is all just speculation on my half.

Sorry I can't be more help.

billyboy01

Well whether its someone scamming free internet access at my expense or someone in UPC trying to get a few quid for there christmas party. Im not letting it go, I'll follow it to the end with, ComReg or Change my ISP and TV/Phone provider!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: I consider this nonsense to be Theft or Fraud.

hightower1

having seen the amount of these threads come on all piss and vinigear over the last few years for them to fade to nothing with the OP not responding leads to only one conclusion ... that a lot of these threads end up being the case that someone in the house WAS actually doing this and no one wants to throw their hands up and say they were wrong after being full of fire and brimstone to begin. Thats only an observation on past threads like this.

Question... who actually uses the other laptop? Any teens in the house? A lot of times I would imagine its billy every teen overhears daddy dearest loose the plot about being billed through the nose for something like this , only for the next question to be.."did you download anything Billy?" .. of coarse the kid answers "Nope" (eek) .... so....

Who uses the xbox? Any large downloads on that like netflixs or games?
Who uses the second comp? Is there a usage meter on that? What are its results?

Bottom line and how you can get the answer is install a usage meter on that comp if ones not on it already, if the downloads drop off then it was that comp / that user (why would anyone who breached your wpa or cloned your mac suddenly stop if they apparently got away with it for a month).

billyboy01

hightower1 wrote: »

having seen the amount of these threads come on all piss and vinigear over the last few years for them to fade to nothing with the OP not responding leads to only one conclusion ... that a lot of these threads end up being the case that someone in the house WAS actually doing this and no one wants to throw their hands up and say they were wrong after being full of fire and brimstone to begin. Thats only an observation on past threads like this.

Question... who actually uses the other laptop? Any teens in the house? A lot of times I would imagine its billy every teen overhears daddy dearest loose the plot about being billed through the nose for something like this , only for the next question to be.."did you download anything Billy?" .. of coarse the kid answers "Nope" (eek) .... so....

Who uses the xbox? Any large downloads on that like netflixs or games?
Who uses the second comp? Is there a usage meter on that? What are its results?

Bottom line and how you can get the answer is install a usage meter on that comp if ones not on it already, if the downloads drop off then it was that comp / that user (why would anyone who breached your wpa or cloned your mac suddenly stop if they apparently got away with it for a month).

Only me, hence why Im so pee'd off!:mad:

Only larges files I DL are accounted for roughly about 80-90GB's as I added up the file sizes for everything I DL for November and everything else was web browsing and 4-5 hours a week xbox gaming traffic! As I said 97GB's max. A farcry short of the "Unlimited" 250GB limit:rolleyes:.

vibe666

billyboy01 wrote: »

Only me, hence why Im so pee'd off!:mad:

Only larges files I DL are accounted for roughly about 80-90GB's as I added up the file sizes for everything I DL for November and everything else was web browsing and 4-5 hours a week xbox gaming traffic! As I said 97GB's max. A farcry short of the "Unlimited" 250GB limit:rolleyes:.

you need to be very sure of what you downloaded, without a traffic meter there's no real way to tell. you'd be surprised what you can rack up without realising it.

don't forget they're also counting all the uploaded data too, so seeding torrents or anything with a high upload rate will count towards your total as well.

it sucks, but the bottom line is that with more than one device online, unless you have a traffic monitor on your router you can't be sure how much data was transferred. just because it's not immediately visible from what you've got saved on your hard drive doesn't mean the bandwidth wasn't used.

jor el

billyboy01 wrote: »

I consider this nonsense to be Theft or Fraud.

You would be wrong. If it was a mistake, then it's a mistake. If you don't have any way to prove it wasn't you that did all the downloading, then you can't even know yourself if it wasn't you. You also need to contact tech support to see what they say.

billyboy01

I always consider the upload stream, as Im very anal about such things!

moonboy52

Get a router and put custom software on it like DD-wrt or Tomato which comes with an-inbuilt Download / Upload monitor.

It is the only sure way of knowing the amount you use (apart from someone leeching your connection ).

dolallyoh

I thought upc did following: go over 1 time and get warning, go over agian get second warning, go over 3rd time and get upgraded to next package.

they can bill you for going over 250gb ?

rob808

dolallyoh wrote: »

I thought upc did following: go over 1 time and get warning, go over agian get second warning, go over 3rd time and get upgraded to next package.

they can bill you for going over 250gb ?

can you knock off the wireless on the epc 2425 and just use wired

dub45

Surely the onus should be on isps to provide a clear method for the customer to monitor downloads/uploads?

It is plain silly that an isp can be in total charge of telling a customer what they are supposed to have used during the month/period in question.

With the increased emphasis on charging by isps for exceeding caps or dare I mention it the so call "fair usage policy" Comreg should require all isps to provide a simply accessed method of monitoring usage.

It is easy for the teccies on here to talk about downloading programs for this or changing the firmware on routers but remember huge numbers of bb customers are not "teccy".

vibe666

dub45 wrote: »

It is easy for the teccies on here to talk about downloading programs for this or changing the firmware on routers but remember huge numbers of bb customers are not "teccy".

a very fair point. i guess the only thing he can do is complain, ask for them to provide details of how much they think he downloaded in detail. ask for them to provide a way to monitor his usage himself and if he's not happy with the outcome then to contact comreg and complain to them about it.

it is funny though, some people are convinced that there is no need for a higher cap on UPC's produects as there is only a tiny sliver of a percentage of UPC users who would ever get anywhere near the AUP, but there has been an awful lot of these types of threads dominating the broadband forum recently, so it much actually be a significant amount of people that are going over if we're seeing that many complaining on here about it.

billyboy01

Latest Update!

UPC has some hidden division called AUP in its Tech Support thats decides and deals with handing out fines and sanctions against its customers, which they are taking there time to ring me back, about this hand in your pocket execises, it seems it's not just the Government who are out thesedays to screw cash out of the public! Also some minor tech support worker, let slip to me that this 250GB limit on there Unlimited 30meg service maybe for a period of three months not every 30 days or monthly! These jokers seem to be moving the goal posts to suit themselves!

Anymore crap from this crowd and Im off to the Ombudsman and ComReg, and there down another customer. Great business model in a recession!
I thought I'd never say this but I wish NTL where back!:eek:

hightower1

vibe666 wrote: »

it is funny though, some people are convinced that there is no need for a higher cap on UPC's produects as there is only a tiny sliver of a percentage of UPC users who would ever get anywhere near the AUP,

Well its a fact that only a small sliver of UPC customer base actually gets near the cap seeing as UPCs own rep here confirmed it for us not too long ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055484124&page=13

UPC: Jason wrote: »

The AUP policy only comes into effect for customers who are using their service in an unusual fashion and typically this represents a tiny fraction of our customer base.

vibe666 wrote: »

but there has been an awful lot of these types of threads dominating the broadband forum recently, so it much actually be a significant amount of people that are going over if we're seeing that many complaining on here about it.

Sill no need to increase the cap. Its no mystery.. tech savy bb users are more likely to break aup.... most tech savy users end up on the TECH - nets / comms / broadband forum giving a skewed view that a lot of people breach aup.... not in percentage of customer base terms as UPCs rep confirmed. Vocal minority syndrome I guess. To put t in perspective if everyone who doesnt breach aup started a thread saying "havent breached UPCs aup - everything s great" we'd see just how small that number really is.

billyboy01

dolallyoh wrote: »

I thought upc did following: go over 1 time and get warning, go over agian get second warning, go over 3rd time and get upgraded to next package.

they can bill you for going over 250gb ?

That system was NTL's. UPC's is extort more money out of you!:mad:

billyboy01

Why is there Max broadband 30meg package classed as an Unlimited package if UPC have it limited. As its obvious that heavy broadband users are going to be attracted to a product labeled as Unlimited!:eek:

Anyway Im not arguing about the 250GB limit, but about the fact I am being charged for over usage, when I have not exceeded it! Just because a private company says so!

dub45

hightower1 wrote: »

Well its a fact that only a small sliver of UPC customer base actually gets near the cap seeing as UPCs own rep here confirmed it for us not too long ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055484124&page=13


Sill no need to increase the cap. Its no mystery.. tech savy bb users are more likely to break aup.... most tech savy users end up on the TECH - nets / comms / broadband forum giving a skewed view that a lot of people breach aup.... not in percentage of customer base terms as UPCs rep confirmed. Vocal minority syndrome I guess. To put t in perspective if everyone who doesnt breach aup started a thread saying "havent breached UPCs aup - everything s great" we'd see just how small that number really is.

Yawn:rolleyes:

UPC advertise an umlimited product.

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

No qualification whatsoever - no direction to terms and conditionis - no compliance with Comreg's policy on so called "unlimited products".

http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/my_service_provider_has_advertised_an_%22unlimited_package%22___what_does_this_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

UPC in such advertising set out to mislead people. They then reserve the right to define "normal" and "acceptable" without any input by the customer who has signed up to a contract without any guidance from UPC as to what these terms mean in practise. How can something be deemed "fair" when it is defined by only one party to the agreement.

UPC: Jason wrote: »

We do offer a different tier for users who find themselves falling outside the parameter of the AUP guidelines and make multiple attempts to contact any individual when the AUP has been exceeded.

Perhaps UPC Jason might drop in again and this time drop the advertising bumpf and let us know what happened in the cases being reported here about the "multiple attempts" to contact customers exceeding the "unlimited" limit?

billyboy01

dub45 wrote: »

Yawn:rolleyes:

UPC advertise an umlimited product.

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/

No qualification whatsoever - no direction to terms and conditionis - no compliance with Comreg's policy on so called "unlimited products".

http://www.askcomreg.ie/home/my_service_provider_has_advertised_an_%22unlimited_package%22___what_does_this_mean_for_me.5.154.LE.asp

UPC in such advertising set out to mislead people. They then reserve the right to define "normal" and "acceptable" without any input by the customer who has signed up to a contract without any guidance from UPC as to what these terms mean in practise. How can something be deemed "fair" when it is defined by only one party to the agreement.



Perhaps UPC Jason might drop in again and this time drop the advertising bumpf and let us know what happened in the cases being reported here about the "multiple attempts" to contact customers exceeding the "unlimited" limit?

I was never contacted, just an extra 70quid on my monthly bill.:mad:

TouchingVirus

billyboy01 wrote: »

I was never contacted, just an extra 70quid on my monthly bill.:mad:

In the same boat as yourself OP. Just like you OP we didn't receive any notice - the last exceeding cap notice received by the account holder was in mid-2009, long before I moved into the house. In fact all users apart from the account holder (who's barely here) were not around at the time of the last notice.

We were upgraded to the Broadband "Extreme" package (The 30mbps, truly unlimited one) from our 15mbps package for November because we exceeded usage in October. We contacted UPC when I noticed the drastic speed increase after the first week of November only to be told that they'd upgraded us to the extreme package and I needed to contact the AUP folks to sort it out.

They reviewed our request to be put back on the old package and found we'd put up 63 gigs in the first week of November (of course we did, we've no idea how much we're using, there are many many devices hooked up to the net here in a house of six people through a crappy netgear router). They refused the request, told us to ease off and they'd review it after a month. So we took it handy with only the bare minimum of usage and are now back down again.

Still though, it doesn't matter because we still had to pay UPC €132 instead of €60 for TV & Internet last month. I'm fairly sure I read somewhere around here that the extreme package was supposed to be €80 total, which means we should only have had to pay €112

There are two issues here:

1) The use of the word unlimited. It's clearly misleading and how they're getting away with it I'll never know. I cannot claim I didn't know there wasn't a limit, I did - as did all the others using the net in this house.

2) No accurate way to measure usage provided by the service provider. How would you feel challenging a speeding ticket without a speedometer in your car? UPC are the only ISP I know of who insist you stick within the cap by sanctioning you if you go over but don't provide some online facility for checking usage. It simply isn't realistic, even the mobile broadbrand providers like 3 and O2 who get €20 a month from people have this monitoring facility. Software isn't a valid alternative for our setup, and the router which UPC provided doesn't monitor usage either. I shouldn't have to buy a LinkSys router and slap on DDWRT to monitor this stuff. If UPC care about it they should provide the facility for me to check it.

Just some other thoughts I've got on the whole AUP thing... If every person on my road downloaded 249.99GB per month we'd all be within the AUP. Both you and I know this doesn't happen, but if it did UPC wouldn't have a comeback. So how hilarious is it that this "tiny fraction" of users who go over their cap get a letter (or did in 2009) stating their excessive usage is affecting the network severely? Especially considering most UPC customers apparently stay well within their cap. So for every 10 customers who download 100GB per month there could be an 11th who can download 1TB/month and still the usage will be less than a road where all 11 push the boat out to 249GB. What happens when I pay the extra €70 for the upgrade? Do the problems we're supposedly causing magically disappear for the other users even though my connection speed doubles from 15mbps to 30mbps and I can leave it going full tilt 24/7 for the month on the truly unlimited package? Why does UPC in Holland not have caps at all? No AUP, no fair usage limits, nothing - unlimited. Why has their network over in NL not gone to shít because apparently if you removed the AUP limit that is what would happen according to Jason - after all the AUP is there to "ensure that all customers sharing infrastructure receive an acceptable level of service".

billyboy01

Send a email complaint to UPC's complaints department. So you have a written complaint registered with them. Then you can make a formal dispute with ComReg about UPC lack of standands! I believe ComReg charge them a hefty fee for there time and work of investigating such complaints!

vibe666

hightower1 wrote: »

Well its a fact that only a small sliver of UPC customer base actually gets near the cap seeing as UPCs own rep here confirmed it for us not too long ago.

yes, as stated by the same guy that has flat out lied on the forum more than once about UPC's "unlimited" products.

it takes a special kind of ignorance for someone to have read through the hundreds of posts on this forum by disgruntled UPC customers complaining about getting bumped to the extreme package because of the AUP that most of them didn't know existed who have no way of accurately measuring their usage and STILL take the word of the resident UPC mouthpiece as the gospel truth instead of opening their eyes to the reality of what is actually happening.

ttcomet

UPC have recently added this page linked from the terms and conditions of the BB packages which states what the AUP is and the actions they can take if you go over it.

"Your monthly data transfer allowance depends upon which broadband package you have selected. The data transfer allowances for the various packages are 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb users and 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 15Mb and 30Mb users. All monthly data transfer allowances refer to the cumulative amount of data uploaded and downloaded per month, unless otherwise specified in your particular package."

I hope you get your bill sorted.

ScArY_Cheese

I got an extra 90 euro on the bill last month. I use Netlimiter to monitor all my traffic. I will admit I do download and seed tv show torrents quite a bit, but my usage only came to 200 GB(that's both upload and download, added together from 2 computers), and they also did not tell me how much I went over by. It seems like a ****ing scam to me. How can they justify 90 euro more? I really should have confronted them about this, but I'm lazy and I don't like confrontations.

I've also been getting random disconnects. I've lost my connection multiple times today. It's not for long, it's only about 15 seconds down time and it reconnects, but that's shocking, especially if you're 1 kill away from chopper gunner in blops! If they ring me up and say "Your usage is too high, you're going to get cut off" I'll be like "I've already been cut off 20 times today you fuppin baxtard!"

billyboy01

ScArY_Cheese wrote: »

I got an extra 90 euro on the bill last month. I use Netlimiter to monitor all my traffic. I will admit I do download and seed tv show torrents quite a bit, but my usage only came to 200 GB(that's both upload and download, added together from 2 computers), and they also did not tell me how much I went over by. It seems like a ****ing scam to me. How can they justify 90 euro more? I really should have confronted them about this, but I'm lazy and I don't like confrontations.

I've also been getting random disconnects. I've lost my connection multiple times today. It's not for long, it's only about 15 seconds down time and it reconnects, but that's shocking, especially if you're 1 kill away from chopper gunner in blops! If they ring me up and say "Your usage is too high, you're going to get cut off" I'll be like "I've already been cut off 20 times today you fuppin baxtard!"

Email them a complaint email to there customer support department, so you have a registered complaint. Then you can file a complaint with ComReg and let ComReg screw them, as they will charge them hefty fees to investigate. Thats the road Im going down if this crap is not sorted out. Im still waiting for a call from this AUP crowd. Then Im off to another ISP, I have been told about a company available in my area that is good for heavy users and they have fair usage policies!

Bye 100 euro per month TV,Phone and Broadband money maker for UPC!:p:p:p

dub45

ttcomet wrote: »

UPC have recently added this page linked from the terms and conditions of the BB packages which states what the AUP is and the actions they can take if you go over it.

"Your monthly data transfer allowance depends upon which broadband package you have selected. The data transfer allowances for the various packages are 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb users and 250GB for Fibre Power Broadband 15Mb and 30Mb users. All monthly data transfer allowances refer to the cumulative amount of data uploaded and downloaded per month, unless otherwise specified in your particular package."

I hope you get your bill sorted.

Has anyone been notified by UPC of this amendment to their terms and conditionis? Given that the linked to page states:

UPC retains the right to amend, modify or substitute this User Policy at any time and we will notify you in writing 30 days in advance of doing so if the modification, amendment or substitution constitutes a material change to the Terms and Conditions of the Services.

I am sure most people would regard a change from a so called "unlimited" product to a product with a defined cap as a "material" change?

I also wonder how this term can be considered valid?

Upgrade your package to a package with a higher data transfer limit with the corresponding higher monthly fee; and/or

How can any prospective customer be expected to know what exactly to this means or to agree to, at some future date, being upgraded to a product which they do not know either the details of, or the cost of? Anyone agreeing to that clause is leaving themselves open to potentially unlimited charges for an unspecified product.

Also full product information should be available readily to a prospective customer. Any cap or prospective charges should be made very clear up front as part of the product infomration and a prospective customer should not have to pore over Terms and Conditioins, Acceptable User policies, and a further virtually unreadable set of conditions on the product page for example see the "conditions" tab here:

http://www.upc.ie/broadband/thirty/

Where they continue to perpetrate this now self acknowledged myth:

. Monthly data usage is capped at 120GB for Fibre Power Broadband 8Mb, there is no monthly usage cap for Fibre Power Broadband 15Mb or 30Mb.

Also, surely so called "conditions" should not incorporate marketing bumpf?