My Lingual Braces Experience

Curunina

Hey all, I realise that this forum tends to be more geared towards "civilians" asking questions and seeking advice, and dentists, orthodontists helping out, and I personally have found it massively helpful in that sense over the last few months, but I thought this might be a useful thread?
I found it difficult to get proper accounts of patients' experiences from Irish people who have had braces. (I found Archwired good in general, but it is a bit international in terms of pricing etc).

So I thought it might be helpful to other people to put some kind of account of my experience up here? If this is in breach of any rules, Mods, please feel free to delete me!

I have one quite rotated canine tooth (there are pictures in an older thread of mine but they are so horrendous I can't bear to look at them again, so if you're curious, you can just do a search!). It had annoyed me for years.
I have had a few long standing dental problems, largely due to neglect, and a crippling fear of the dentist, so when I eventually found a dentist that I liked and trusted, I began to consider finally doing something about this crooked tooth. I have a job in which success is largely based on perception (more so than your average job!) Therefore traditional train tracks were not an option for me professionally.
I went for 4 consultations with orthodontists in total (all in the Cork area, and I can PM details if required).
The first was with the Ortho reccommended by my own dentist, but while he was perfectly pleasant, and appeared extremely competent, I decided against using him. I had done a fair amount of research online, and he appeared to be uncomfortable with that - I had an impression that it was something he wasn't used to. When I asked him about lingual braces, he initally answered the question as if they were not an option for my problem (clinically). When pressed, he admitted that he himself does not use the lingual systems, and would not be comfortable "experimenting" on me. Now I completely appreciate that honesty, but I thought he could have been more upfront about the lingual issue.
He did perform a very thorough examination, including moulds and x-rays, and charged €90, which I definitely thought was well-earned, given the time devoted to the consultation.
He was just dismissive of my insistance that, professsionally speaking, labial train tracks were not a realistic option.

The second consultation was more successful, in that the Ortho had a lingual option, and was happy to use it on my teeth. She appeared very experienced with the system, again, did a thorough consultation (x-rays, but no moulds), and provided me with a quote. She also spotted a tiny cavity in one of my teeth that neither Ortho #1, nor my dentist had seen, which, I have to say, did impress me! As far as I remember she charged €80 for the consultation, which again, I felt was earned.

The third consultation was the one that I found to be the poorest. The Ortho took an almost cursory look at my teeth, and seemed to be more interested in whether I was having orthodontic treatment done because I was recently/planning to be engaged, than my actual teeth.
He came up with a completely different treatment plan, whereby one half of my upper arch would be fixed in place, and I could have linguals only on the side of the arch where the crooked tooth was positioned. He took no x-rays, and just (I am paraphrasing here) checked to see if any of my teeth were "dead" my using a cold gel on each of them and asking if I could feel it. The consultation was free, and the quote he gave me was half of Ortho #2, and less than the quote for traditional traintracks from Ortho #1.
To be honest, I wouldn't let him straighten my curtains, not to mind my teeth. I would have loved the quicker, cheaper option, but the lack of attention he paid to examining my teeth was actually alarming.
The thing that worries me about that, is that I was in an unusual position of having already been to two Orthos, and could therefore tell that this exam was borderline negligent. If he was the first Ortho one attended, I am sure it would be unlikely that one would see an issue...

At this point I was almost sure that I was going with #2, but I had another appointment booked, and decided to attend for the sake of completeness. This was virtually identical to #2, except that the €90 fee included two visits - one for a detailed exam, with numerous x-rays, and the second for the detailed explanation of a considered treatment plan. He offered linguals, and was happy to explain why other options (such as invisalign, which he also offers) would not work.

Ultimately, both #2 and #4 determined that I would have to have one tooth removed, and a bridge removed from the other side of the upper arch. The difference between the two was that #4 had a plan where a temporary space filler (to be filed down as the teeth moved) would be used in both gaps before impressions were taken. #2 insisted that the filler could not be inserted until after impressions (and I think, although I don't trust my memory) and the fitting of the brackets.
The determining factor is that #4 was not going to have me walking out of the dentist at any point with an unsightly gap in my smile.
I appreciated that he respected my desire to look presentable at all times.

Ultimately, #4 was also slightly cheaper than #2 also, but it was my vanity that mattered(!).

I had to have some old fillings replaced, had the tooth and bridge mentioned above removed, and replaced with temporary fillers before my impressions were taken - slightly traumatic, but tolerable!

And today - about 12 months after I decided to take action, I had the lingual brackets fitted to my bottom teeth. (only necessary for traction to move the top teeth).

They are completely and totally invisible, unless I open my mouth abnormally wide to show them to somone. I have a very slight lisp, which has improved as the day has gone on, and eating dinner was somewhat uncomfortable, but manageable.

It is a very strange sensation against the back of my tongue, but not painful (the wires have not been inserted as yet).

I'm going back next week to have the top arch put on, and the wires inserted into both sets.
I had a consultation with a hygienist, who went through the use of inter-dental brushes/super floss with me, and although I think it will take me 20 minutes to clean my teeth, I am happy that I will be able to manage it.

Anyway, I will update next week, and occasionally as I go through the process, and am happy to reply to PMs from anyone interested in the progress - or in the names of the people I have consulted with.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Very good, goes to show free consultations are not the best option, you cannot take the time required and X-rays and models for free, so all your getting is an sales chat really.

While I know that everyone is price sensitive (espically cork people ), you are not always best going for the cheaper option, as above being happy with the operator and the treatment plan is more important because most of the time its a small percentage difference. The best dentist, orthodontist is never the cheapest one.

Best of luck and keep them really clean.

vishal

normally the impression for lingual braces is done before teeth are removed, and then they are bonded in the mouth, then the teeth are extracted.

this is because the braces are set by a lab technician and then trays are sent with the braces in them so they can be positioned exactly as the technician had on the models. if you were to extract teeth before, then the teeth may be shifting after the impressions and the braces may not be properly positioned when they are bonded in the mouth.

i guess the bridge complicated matters, i am not sure how you handle that? I wonder why couldn't just reduce the pontic in size as the extraction spaces closes?

Curunina

Hey Vishal - yes I think the bridge did complicate things, as while Ortho #1 mentioned that he thought it was beautifully done (by a Dublin dentist I attended, valium-ed to the hilt!), he (and my Dentist, and Orthos #2 and #4) couldn't work out what material it was made from - apparently it was very very hard?
Both Orthos #2 and #4 agreed that it had to come out.
I think that your point about the extractions is interesting, as I understand it, that is why my Ortho insisted that my Dentist insert the "space-fillers" immediately after the extraction, without leaving time for the teeth to move the slightest amount. I know that my Dentist was concerned about doing that, on the basis that the extraction site was quite sore, and did bleed a little (not very much at all, actually, but I think she anticipated more).

Still trying to get used to these brackets, am finding it very strange trying to eat anything remotely hard - so a nice side benefit is going to be my new trim, Christmas figure!!

day dreamer

Hi

I remember your posts some time ago when you were looking for, I am delighted you went ahead. Best of luck with things.

The false tooth to fill the space is interesting. As Vishal mentioned the braces are usually fitted first, then extractions then a false tooth can be tied onto the wire to fill in the gap and reduced over time as the extraction site closes. This ensures that the braces fit precisely and is how most orthodontists would do it.

You said the teeth were fitted after the extraction by your dentist. It sounds like you may have a removable denture in, can the teeth come out?

On another note, most patients wont do the research you have done, you probably know more about lingual orthodontics than most orthodontists!!

Curunina

Hey Daydreamer - yes, you were a great help to me in the course of my (admittedly extensive!) research.
The 2 false teeth are not removable dentures, they do not come out, my dentist refers to them as temporary bridges. They are attached to the teeth at either side, and there is some kind of binding substance around the front of one of them. Apparently the big issue was that there be no bonding material at the back of the bridges/teeth so as to allow the lingual brackets to bond properly.
When I was doing all of my reserach I kept laughing to myself - a few of us had a discussion here a while back about what patients want from their dentist - and in the course of it, someone told me that I had an "A-type" personality (it was said very nicely). Each time I left another orthodontist, or my dentist received another letter with a treatment plan, I thought about how true it was!

Curunina

Hey - Thought I would update this..
I'm over two months in, and the rotated tooth that originally prompted me to start the process is now almost perfectly straight - I am a little gobsmacked by how quickly it fell into line. I have had one of the temporary space-fillers removed completely, and the gap there is almost gone, and I have had the other space-filler reduced quite a bit.
I have had a little trouble with discomfort - in particular the wires at the back have tended to irritate my tongue, and it has been v difficult to get dental wax to stay fixed there ( I can't seem to get it dry enough). I am tempted to say that this has been no big deal, but truthfully, I had a night last week where I ended up crying with frustration. It's not so bad since though... I have had almost no problems with speech - although I lecture for 3 hours straight on a Monday, and by the end of that I can feel myself getting a little slurry (have told my class about the braces, so they don't think I am sipping out of a hip flask over the evening!). No one has noticed them visually at all, and people only hear a slight difference in my speech when I mention it myself.
Have managed to get the hygiene routine down to about 10 minutes as well, which is a relief, as was taking about 20 minutes when i first got them.
I did have a bracket fall off a tooth at the beginning, and unfortunately, I swallowed it before I realised - so there was a €150 replacement fee for that, which was annoying.
Also, an unexpected pleasant side-effect has been that I have lost almost a stone in weight - mainly (I think) because I am eating more slowly, and there are times when I have just managed to get dental wax attached to a tooth, and I might have had a snack, but just can't be bothered when it involves going through the whole wax routine again. So that's nice - in 18 months I will have straight teeth AND be a size smaller!!
Still pleased about my choice of ortho - though I do fit him a bit 'rougher' than my lovely gentle dentist - in terms of pushing back my lips, but it's nothing too traumatic!
Anyway, if anyone is thinking of taking the lingual route, and wants more details, feel free to PM me!

ennis81

Delighted its going well for you.
I have train tracks myself they are actually on a year today!!!!(I'm 29)
Your comment about losing weight made me smile, because it has definitely kept my weight down too, so much hassle to go brushing my teeth again after snacks. Also my teeth are so clean and white due to my paranoia over food being stuck in my "mouth bling" I clean them very well every time I eat .:D

Woodywoo

Hi Curunina could you please pm me the name of the orthodontist please?

Curunina wrote: »

Hey all, I realise that this forum tends to be more geared towards "civilians" asking questions and seeking advice, and dentists, orthodontists helping out, and I personally have found it massively helpful in that sense over the last few months, but I thought this might be a useful thread?
I found it difficult to get proper accounts of patients' experiences from Irish people who have had braces. (I found Archwired good in general, but it is a bit international in terms of pricing etc).

So I thought it might be helpful to other people to put some kind of account of my experience up here? If this is in breach of any rules, Mods, please feel free to delete me!

I have one quite rotated canine tooth (there are pictures in an older thread of mine but they are so horrendous I can't bear to look at them again, so if you're curious, you can just do a search!). It had annoyed me for years.
I have had a few long standing dental problems, largely due to neglect, and a crippling fear of the dentist, so when I eventually found a dentist that I liked and trusted, I began to consider finally doing something about this crooked tooth. I have a job in which success is largely based on perception (more so than your average job!) Therefore traditional train tracks were not an option for me professionally.
I went for 4 consultations with orthodontists in total (all in the Cork area, and I can PM details if required).
The first was with the Ortho reccommended by my own dentist, but while he was perfectly pleasant, and appeared extremely competent, I decided against using him. I had done a fair amount of research online, and he appeared to be uncomfortable with that - I had an impression that it was something he wasn't used to. When I asked him about lingual braces, he initally answered the question as if they were not an option for my problem (clinically). When pressed, he admitted that he himself does not use the lingual systems, and would not be comfortable "experimenting" on me. Now I completely appreciate that honesty, but I thought he could have been more upfront about the lingual issue.
He did perform a very thorough examination, including moulds and x-rays, and charged €90, which I definitely thought was well-earned, given the time devoted to the consultation.
He was just dismissive of my insistance that, professsionally speaking, labial train tracks were not a realistic option.

The second consultation was more successful, in that the Ortho had a lingual option, and was happy to use it on my teeth. She appeared very experienced with the system, again, did a thorough consultation (x-rays, but no moulds), and provided me with a quote. She also spotted a tiny cavity in one of my teeth that neither Ortho #1, nor my dentist had seen, which, I have to say, did impress me! As far as I remember she charged €80 for the consultation, which again, I felt was earned.

The third consultation was the one that I found to be the poorest. The Ortho took an almost cursory look at my teeth, and seemed to be more interested in whether I was having orthodontic treatment done because I was recently/planning to be engaged, than my actual teeth.
He came up with a completely different treatment plan, whereby one half of my upper arch would be fixed in place, and I could have linguals only on the side of the arch where the crooked tooth was positioned. He took no x-rays, and just (I am paraphrasing here) checked to see if any of my teeth were "dead" my using a cold gel on each of them and asking if I could feel it. The consultation was free, and the quote he gave me was half of Ortho #2, and less than the quote for traditional traintracks from Ortho #1.
To be honest, I wouldn't let him straighten my curtains, not to mind my teeth. I would have loved the quicker, cheaper option, but the lack of attention he paid to examining my teeth was actually alarming.
The thing that worries me about that, is that I was in an unusual position of having already been to two Orthos, and could therefore tell that this exam was borderline negligent. If he was the first Ortho one attended, I am sure it would be unlikely that one would see an issue...

At this point I was almost sure that I was going with #2, but I had another appointment booked, and decided to attend for the sake of completeness. This was virtually identical to #2, except that the €90 fee included two visits - one for a detailed exam, with numerous x-rays, and the second for the detailed explanation of a considered treatment plan. He offered linguals, and was happy to explain why other options (such as invisalign, which he also offers) would not work.

Ultimately, both #2 and #4 determined that I would have to have one tooth removed, and a bridge removed from the other side of the upper arch. The difference between the two was that #4 had a plan where a temporary space filler (to be filed down as the teeth moved) would be used in both gaps before impressions were taken. #2 insisted that the filler could not be inserted until after impressions (and I think, although I don't trust my memory) and the fitting of the brackets.
The determining factor is that #4 was not going to have me walking out of the dentist at any point with an unsightly gap in my smile.
I appreciated that he respected my desire to look presentable at all times.

Ultimately, #4 was also slightly cheaper than #2 also, but it was my vanity that mattered(!).

I had to have some old fillings replaced, had the tooth and bridge mentioned above removed, and replaced with temporary fillers before my impressions were taken - slightly traumatic, but tolerable!

And today - about 12 months after I decided to take action, I had the lingual brackets fitted to my bottom teeth. (only necessary for traction to move the top teeth).

They are completely and totally invisible, unless I open my mouth abnormally wide to show them to somone. I have a very slight lisp, which has improved as the day has gone on, and eating dinner was somewhat uncomfortable, but manageable.

It is a very strange sensation against the back of my tongue, but not painful (the wires have not been inserted as yet).

I'm going back next week to have the top arch put on, and the wires inserted into both sets.
I had a consultation with a hygienist, who went through the use of inter-dental brushes/super floss with me, and although I think it will take me 20 minutes to clean my teeth, I am happy that I will be able to manage it.

Anyway, I will update next week, and occasionally as I go through the process, and am happy to reply to PMs from anyone interested in the progress - or in the names of the people I have consulted with.