Snow/Ice Driving

Mint Sauce

Although have already passed my test (this year), they say you never stop learning, so here goes.

So for the other recently test passers and those still learning, its the time of year when we're going to potentially hit snow and ice. Drove on it for first time today, and was genually abit wary heading out for the first time. Was either that or wait a week before heading home. Was asking loads of questions of friends and family, even as far as sitting on with one of them yeaterday when they had to pop out and asking where are you feet now, how did you handle that hill, that situation, etc etc.

My plan now is to find a big empty car park, assuming there has been no big thaw over night to test the capabilities/car responce, under breaking, gentle steering, take off etc.

robbie_998

go very very very slowly... gently accelerate and gently brake... no need to be skidding now !

i'n no expert or anything (so i'm not gonna be driving for a while now) but it seems to be a case of go really slowly and don't get cocky thinking its fine.

the likes of carparks (particularly liffey valley like i saw the other day) are like ice rinks... christmas on ice isin't coming to liffey valley this year... but we can still ice skate around the place !

When i'm walking i see it that the thicker the snow the easier to walk in, i also try to walk on grass more often too cos it saves from falling on ice.

i saw a woman in a car today drive on the field until she got to the estate entrance because it was just thick snow and no ice... unlike the road which was like glass !

but drive slow... regardless of how stupid it is.

Mint Sauce

robbie_998 wrote: »

go very very very slowly... gently accelerate and gently brake... no need to be skidding now !

i'n no expert or anything (so i'm not gonna be driving for a while now) but it seems to be a case of go really slowly and don't get cocky thinking its fine.

the likes of carparks (particularly liffey valley like i saw the other day) are like ice rinks... christmas on ice isin't coming to liffey valley this year... but we can still ice skate around the place !

When i'm walking i see it that the thicker the snow the easier to walk in, i also try to walk on grass more often too cos it saves from falling on ice.

i saw a woman in a car today drive on the field until she got to the estate entrance because it was just thick snow and no ice... unlike the road which was like glass !

but drive slow... regardless of how stupid it is.

Was going uber slow on one of the sections of the back roads today, compact snow is not fun to drive on. Thankfully not to many of them, 99% of my journey was on main and treated roads, but even then was going slower than normal.

But its likely that I am going to encounter this winter long sections of untreated roads.

Already aware will need to go slow, extreamly gentle on the breaks, multipling the distance usally kept, no sudden moves, steer into the skid/slide, etc etc. But dont want to wait till I'm on a back road to learn what will happen in a slide and how deal with it, etc, hence the empty car park, free of other cars, traffic, people and so on.

**Timbuk2**

Go slow is the best thing to do - that way you should be able to handle anything that happens. Read traffic ahead of you really well (while keeping a huge distance from them) so you can avoid having to stop quickly if necessary.

I was driving in ice the other day, on back roads, for the first time. It was quite a scary experience. I went around a corner very slowly, but still had a rear wheel skid. Easily controllable due to the small speed, and I'm not sure I could have done anything to prevent it - it was extremely slippy!

My main advice is:
* use the gears to slow you down. Contrary to what you normally should do, but try and minimise the use of the brakes if at all possible. For those that don't know, if you are in 4th gear, clutch in, engage 3rd gear and take the clutch out gently. This should slow you down. Make sure you plan your deceleration well in advance - slowing down by the gears takes a long time. This way you can use the brakes as little as possible.

* engage a higher gear than you usually would. Get up as soon as you can to 4th and 5th - this means you accelerate less harshly, and are therefore less likely to skid as there is a smaller power output. (there's probably a more technical reason which I don't know, but it makes sense intuitively).

* if descending a hill, ignore the previous advice (:P) and engage a lower gear. This will keep your speed 'limited' as such, so you won't need to use the brakes (as much) to regulate your speed.

* treat the pedals as if they are eggs that could break at any second.

* if you skid, steer in the direction that you are skidding (which may be opposite to what you think, especially when skidding towards a kerb). You have a greater chance of regaining control

Remember, I have very little experience driving in wintery conditions, all of that is *theory* - someone who has more experience may disagree with me and have better advice!

doolox

I saw a woman go out of control on a corner coming to a roundabout and hit a piece of concrete wheron she stopped the car on the corner, got out and inspected for damage by standing in front of her car. Meanwhile a truck was coming up on the blind corner and I had to wave him down to prevent an accident..........

DO NOT ATTEMPT to inspect for damage to cars in this weather on blind corners.

When approaching a traffic light at the top of a hill stay at the bottom of the hill until the light changes in your favour. THEN move off on the flat and try and keep going on the hill, you have a better chance of avoiding skidding when starting of on a flat road than at the steep part of a hill. If the light changes to amber it is safer to keep going rather than trying to brake suddenly to avoid going through a soon-to-be red light. You will only end up skidding out into traffic if you try to stop too suddenly. This is obviously not possible in heavy, congested traffic where a lot of skidding and blockages occur.

Try and stay in the highest gear possible without labouring or conking out. Keep all movements gradual and gentle, avoid braking if possible and use gears to engine brake instead.

Be looking at least 4 or 5 cars ahead to see what is happening. Many people only look to the car in front and are too late to react to changing situations. Be prepared to let people out at junctions and forgive slow take-offs. Most people will be inexperienced in snow/ice so be prepared for silly things to happen

Mint Sauce

Have actully been practising the engine breaking (changing gear to slow down) the last few days, and yes, it does work, to a certain extent I feel, as you said, releasing the clutch slowly to prevent that jerkyness as the gears engage. Breaks are still needed though I feel, with extreme gentleness though as you say.

Another bit of advice, if going up a hill, dont stop, get a run up as well if possible and use the momentum to keep you going, would probably sugest dont change gear once your on the hill as a change up or down in aceleration could effect that momentum.

Alanstrainor

I would avoid steep hills in either direction completely. Once your heading down an icey hill there is very little you can do to slow down. And coming to a stop and starting to slide back down a hill is almost impossible to get out of.

I went out to an empty car park earlier today, which was covered in a lot of snow, rather than ice, and i was able to spin my front wheel drive polo with little effort at 5km/h.

Just take it easy, i really wouldnt drive unless it was completely necessary tbh.

daveharnett

irish-stew wrote: »

My plan now is to find a big empty car park, assuming there has been no big thaw over night to test the capabilities/car responce, under breaking, gentle steering, take off etc.

I'd recommend that. All the advice in the world is no substitute for experience in a safe environment.

Alanstrainor

daveharnett wrote: »

I'd recommend that. All the advice in the world is no substitute for experience in a safe environment.

I'd agree too. But if getting to the car park means driving in treacherous conditions, i think i'd pass.

Maj Malfunction

As a cyclist I'd like to ask motorists to remove all the snow from their car, esp. the roof, nothing worse than a face-full of snow and ice in the morning...

It's not cool to drive around in an igloo!

Blazer

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

As a cyclist I'd like to ask motorists to remove all the snow from their car, esp. the roof, nothing worse than a face-full of snow and ice in the morning...

It's not cool to drive around in an igloo!

lol..that reminds of the Matt Cooper show the other day...someone tweeted in asking car drivers to do the same thing as it was very dangerous.
Yer man agreed saying "yeah..I can see his point...there's nothing more dangerous than high velocity snow..100's of people being killed by it"
lol..how he managed to keep a straight face is beyond me,...Matt was in knots


also word of advice....for cars with ABS you do not pump the brakes..pedal to the floor and you'll feel the ABS kicking in...
that's only now if you have to brake in an emergency...if you drive slowly and carefully you shouldn't have to do any sudden stops but you never know

**Timbuk2**

I was driving the other day in the snow, and found it easier to move off in 2nd gear, as sometimes the wheels would spin in first gear.

Is this advisable? Am I doing something wrong in first gear that my wheels are spinning in the first place? Starting in 2nd gear can't be good for the clutch

Alanstrainor

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I was driving the other day in the snow, and found it easier to move off in 2nd gear, as sometimes the wheels would spin in first gear.

Is this advisable? Am I doing something wrong in first gear that my wheels are spinning in the first place? Starting in 2nd gear can't be good for the clutch

Starting in 2nd is fine in these conditions, it means there will be less torque applied to the wheels so they are less likely to spin on you. I wouldn't worry about the slightly extra wear on your clutch, just do it quickly and smoothly and there really shouldn't be much extra effort.
I drive a small automatic these days, which does not allow me to manually select the gears, (Although there is limited control by using the accelerator), and starting gently in 1st has been fine. But it will depend entirely on the situation, the car, the number of passengers etc etc.

Just take things easy, and don't be afraid to turn back home if the conditions become too much. I was out driving around south Dublin at around 9ish, and the roads were already icing over, so be careful out there people!

challengemaster

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Just take it easy, i really wouldnt drive unless it was completely necessary tbh.

This is half the reason the country continually comes to a standstill every time we have a bit of snow/ice. Rather than learning how to deal with it/drive on it, it's a case of don't drive at all... a cycle that needs to be broken tbh. If countries can deal with a few feet of snow and we can't deal with mere inches, there's something wrong.

Maj Malfunction wrote: »

It's not cool to drive around in an igloo!

The amount of cars I've seen like this is hilarious. It actually stops being funny when you see the amount of cars that dont even wipe away snow obstructing their view. I've seen people peering over snow mountains on the bonnet and all...

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

I was driving the other day in the snow, and found it easier to move off in 2nd gear, as sometimes the wheels would spin in first gear.

Is this advisable? Am I doing something wrong in first gear that my wheels are spinning in the first place? Starting in 2nd gear can't be good for the clutch

Wheel spin isn't really driver error in these conditions - slippy/icy patches + first gear (most torque) even at low revs you'll spin the wheels. Starting in 2nd gear will cause slightly more clutch wear but it's unlikely you'll even notice it - Using the car to learn in would be worse for its clutch...

Mint Sauce

I've been doing alot of my starting of in second gear if on snow. Still having a slight issue on snowy accents though.

Was turning from an N road on to side road, main road was treated, side road was fresh snow (that morning), compact in places, wasn't a great run up as hill was immediatly after two turns, was about 3/4s of way up in 3rd gear when the spinning started, got up eventually but any suggestions to make it easier, especailly once the spinning starts.

07Lapierre

irish-stew wrote: »

I've been doing alot of my starting of in second gear if on snow. Still having a slight issue on snowy accents though.

Was turning from an N road on to side road, main road was treated, side road was fresh snow (that morning), compact in places, wasn't a great run up as hill was immediatly after two turns, was about 3/4s of way up in 3rd gear when the spinning started, got up eventually but any suggestions to make it easier, especailly once the spinning starts.

If ur wheels are spinning in 3rd gear, change up to 4th. If your still spinning the wheels in 4th, it's time to park the car and walk as the hill is too steep.

Mint Sauce

07Lapierre wrote: »

If ur wheels are spinning in 3rd gear, change up to 4th. If your still spinning the wheels in 4th, it's time to park the car and walk as the hill is too steep.

But would you change mid way up or try and ease her back down and work through the gears as quick as possible in your run up (in this instance is was quite a short one. Would you not be putting extra strain on the gear box by changing mid way up, or does that only apply if you are actually moving.

07Lapierre

irish-stew wrote: »

But would you change mid way up or try and ease her back down and work through the gears as quick as possible in your run up (in this instance is was quite a short one. Would you not be putting extra strain on the gear box by changing mid way up, or does that only apply if you are actually moving.

IMO, The trick/skill is to change gear before the wheels start spinning. Knowing when to change gear comes with experience. Driving on snow/ice does put extra strain on the car, yes, but once you press the clutch, there is no real strain on the gearbox, so changing gear is OK.

When there is snow / ice on the roads, you should approach a hill in a high gear ( if you normally drive up a hill in 3rd gear, in snow and ice you should be in 4th etc.). As you travel up the hill, if you "feel" the wheels wanting to spin, you should change UP at that point.

Also, if the hill/slope is very short, you should approach the hill at a slightly higher speed so that you have enough "momentum" to get up the hill.The wheels are more likely to spin if your travelling too slow. Again the trick/skill is to arrive at the top of the hill at a slow speed. You don't want to arrive at the top travelling too fast, especially on ice.