Whensmybus.ie

Southsider1

So I logged on to whensmybus.ie today. It says on it's website:

Get up-to-the-second bus Arrival and Departure Times
at your bus stop on-line and by text

Only it doesn't!

It gives the details as they should run and not as they are actually running... So my question is: What is the point of this useless website/service?

aidan_walsh

Kinda hard for them to publish information that Bus Eireann don't provide, isn't it?

KC61

It's kinda hard to predict what time buses will arrive anywhere in these conditions. The website would be predicated on average road conditions. No realtime system for buses could be readjusted for this sort of weather - as it is there is a huge amount of work required in terms of getting it up and running in the first place.

If buses have not left the terminus, then they will still appear as showing up at the scheduled time.

foggy_lad

KC61 wrote: »

It's kinda hard to predict what time buses will arrive anywhere in these conditions. The website would be predicated on average road conditions. No realtime system for buses could be readjusted for this sort of weather - as it is there is a huge amount of work required in terms of getting it up and running in the first place.

If buses have not left the terminus, then they will still appear as showing up at the scheduled time.

I thought that when's my bus website used sattellite tracking to give approximate locations of busses from which times were worked ou?

Southsider1

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Kinda hard for them to publish information that Bus Eireann don't provide, isn't it?

But it's a Bus Eireann website isn't it? So, again my point is: why have the supposed facility if it clearly doesn't work?

KC61 wrote: »

It's kinda hard to predict what time buses will arrive anywhere in these conditions. The website would be predicated on average road conditions. No realtime system for buses could be readjusted for this sort of weather - as it is there is a huge amount of work required in terms of getting it up and running in the first place.

If buses have not left the terminus, then they will still appear as showing up at the scheduled time.

Of course it's possible if they use GPS to operate it. In the UK the similar service does it this way and it's accurate to less than three minutes. I'm only asking why they sell it as one thing if it clearly does not perform that (it's only!) task?

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

But it's a Bus Eireann website isn't it? So, again my point is: why have the supposed facility if it clearly doesn't work?

Of course it's possible if they use GPS to operate it. In the UK the similar service does it this way and it's accurate to less than three minutes. I'm only asking why they sell it as one thing if it clearly does not perform that (it's only!) task?

Yes but the schedules that would back up the GPS data will be nowhere near reality as they would be based on average road conditions.

To build up the system you have to have mean average schedules first for every section of the route, which are then added to the GPS positioning to give expected arrival times at each location - the point that I'm making is that those schedules are probably close to irrelevant at the moment due to the extreme conditions as buses will be travelling far more slowly than scheduled.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

Yes but the schedules that would back up the GPS data will be nowhere near reality as they would be based on average road conditions.

To build up the system you have to have mean average schedules first for every section of the route, which are then added to the GPS positioning to give expected arrival times at each location - the point that I'm making is that those schedules are probably close to irrelevant at the moment due to the extreme conditions as buses will be travelling far more slowly than scheduled.

That all makes sense to me but why then do they sell it as this:

Get up-to-the-second bus Arrival and Departure Times
at your bus stop on-line and by text

When clearly this is not what it does.

foggy_lad

Afaik it is based on when each bus is due at particular stops. and it does give an up to date departure time if available, on the timetable for the 002 service the 12 midday bus to Rosslare was due at Wexford Station at 3.20pm but according to the website it will depart Wexford in 7 minutes at approximately 3.34pm most likely due to snow. seems pretty accurate?

call the police

Southsider1 wrote: »

So I logged on to whensmybus.ie today. It says on it's website:

Only it doesn't!

It gives the details as they should run and not as they are actually running... So my question is: What is the point of this useless website/service?

how do you know ?
just checked the website for the next bus in Arklow, it looks pretty accurate to me.
2 Dublin Airport (Atrium Road) 0 min
2 Rosslare Harbour 13 min
2 Dublin Airport (Atrium Road) 37 min

KC61

It is based on real time information - I'm not sure how you are concluding it isn't?

The problem is that right now it may not be that accurate given that it will be a moving feast based on how slow the bus is going.

ressem

It is a GPS based system. And on some buses it is active and working. On many Bus Eireann buses and of course on 3rd party contracted buses on the route, it will not be available.
Same with the wifi, and the unpredictable 'next stop' announcement system.

Last winter it stopped me on one occasion waiting for 65 minutes in the icy cold, so I wouldn't describe it as worthless. If the time is identical to the scheduled time then there's a chance that it's not active on that bus.

Vic_08

There is a format list at the bottom of the website that explains which format relates to real time info and which is derived from the timetable.

If a bus is not live on the system it will display the timetable departure time instead.

Southsider1

call the police wrote: »

how do you know ?
just checked the website for the next bus in Arklow, it looks pretty accurate to me.
2 Dublin Airport (Atrium Road) 0 min
2 Rosslare Harbour 13 min
2 Dublin Airport (Atrium Road) 37 min

Waited for the Bus from Wexford to Rosslare this morning and it said 7 mins on the website. Actually came about 40 mins later. Returning, similarly the buss was running late due to roads yet website had it running in time. I asked the driver and he said that the website just gets the info from the timetable.

Zoney

The Limerick city buses usually show up with real-time bus info for the soonest departures/arrivals and timetable info for the later buses. Although it seems to factor in buses delayed on their return route to the city centre and vice-versa, so that even some of the later times are based on real-time info.

So really the problem is twofold:
- mixing real-time info and timetable info without enough distinction
- not having real-time info on some buses/services

But the site most definitely provides real-time info on a lot of services.

Another note - obviously there is only timetable info until the relevant bus that's to provide the service is on the road.

So it is most useful for intermediate stops and won't necessarily let you know if there is a delay with a scheduled departure from a bus depot (unless e.g. you are waiting to go from Limerick to Galway and the Cork-Limerick-Galway bus is late coming from Cork).

foggy_lad

Southsider1 wrote: »

Waited for the Bus from Wexford to Rosslare this morning and it said 7 mins on the website. Actually came about 40 mins later. Returning, similarly the buss was running late due to roads yet website had it running in time. I asked the driver and he said that the website just gets the info from the timetable.

those busses probably did not have the GPS fitted and as said contractors dont have GPS either, all the newer coaches have it though.

Southsider1

foggy_lad wrote: »

those busses probably did not have the GPS fitted and as said contractors dont have GPS either, all the newer coaches have it though.

Contractors? How do you mean? It's a Bus Eireann rtoute operated by Bus Eireann

Oh, just for the record, this morning the website said the Wex>Rosslare bus (2) would be at Wexford station at 08:19.... It actually arrived at 08:58. The basic point I'm trying to make is twofold; firstly that I expected that the whole point of the website is to give accurate arrival/departure timings and also that passengers wouldn't have to stand around in the snow waiting for a bus that the site says has already gone through when in fact it won't be for at least half an hour. If it isn't going to be done properly by GPS why bother at all. Why not just use the timetable?

Cookie_Monster

Southsider1 wrote: »

Contractors? How do you mean? It's a Bus Eireann rtoute operated by Bus Eireann

BE outsource for buses when they do not have available capacity with their own

KC61

It can go back to the point that I made above - the real times given right now would be based on average road conditions. Therefore the system would read where a bus is and apply the average journey time from there to the location that you choose.

The reality is that no bus is operating under average conditions right now and that any real time calculations (certainly on longer routes) are going to be pure guesswork and can probably be taken with a grain of salt.

There is a clear indication given as to how to use the system at the bottom:

Explanation of the real time display:
x min The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop.
hh:mm * The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop if arrival/departure is over 60 minutes away.
hh:mm The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop.
hh:mm C The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop when a Bus Éireann service is being operated by a contractor

Therefore if it is showing hh:mm it is using the timetabled time and not GPS time. Even if it is showing GPS time the reality is that it will probably take longer to get there given the adverse weather.

I don't think any system could give you accurate timings right now as the speed that vehicles are travelling is totally dependent on local road conditions.

etchyed

Vic_08 wrote: »

There is a format list at the bottom of the website that explains which format relates to real time info and which is derived from the timetable.

If a bus is not live on the system it will display the timetable departure time instead.

Indeed

whensmybus.ie wrote:

x min - The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop.

hh:mm * - The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop if arrival/departure is over 60 minutess away.

hh:mm - The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop.

hh:mm C - The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop when a Bus Éireann service is being operated by a contractor.

The problem is that while these time formats work online, they're not used in texts. You just get sent a text with a list of times. If the times on the text match the times on the timetable you can pretty much guess that it's a scheduled arrival time rather than an estimated one (generally means that either the GPS on your bus isn't working or it's just not going to show up at all). Having to guess is far from ideal and after receiving one of these texts I'm usually none the wiser as to when a bus is likely to come.

foggy_lad

Southsider1 wrote: »

Contractors? How do you mean? It's a Bus Eireann rtoute operated by Bus Eireann

Oh, just for the record, this morning the website said the Wex>Rosslare bus (2) would be at Wexford station at 08:19.... It actually arrived at 08:58. The basic point I'm trying to make is twofold; firstly that I expected that the whole point of the website is to give accurate arrival/departure timings and also that passengers wouldn't have to stand around in the snow waiting for a bus that the site says has already gone through when in fact it won't be for at least half an hour. If it isn't going to be done properly by GPS why bother at all. Why not just use the timetable?

Bus Eireann sometimes use busses of varying quality(usually knackered ex touring busses) from private operators.

That bus would not have functional GPS meaning it only works off the timetabled times but if it had GPS you would have seen a delay from the times.

The system cant give GPS times for busses which do not have GPS fitted!

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

It can go back to the point that I made above - the real times given right now would be based on average road conditions. Therefore the system would read where a bus is and apply the average journey time from there to the location that you choose.

The reality is that no bus is operating under average conditions right now and that any real time calculations (certainly on longer routes) are going to be pure guesswork and can probably be taken with a grain of salt.

There is a clear indication given as to how to use the system at the bottom:



Therefore if it is showing hh:mm it is using the timetabled time and not GPS time. Even if it is showing GPS time the reality is that it will probably take longer to get there given the adverse weather.

I don't think any system could give you accurate timings right now as the speed that vehicles are travelling is totally dependent on local road conditions.

Which confirms my belief that the whole thing is a farce. It's not "real time" at all. It's estimated and poorly estimated at that. Why won't they just say that it's an estimate and leave it at that without trying to pretend that it is some up to the minute time guide when it's anything but? Any seasoned bus user can do the estimates for themselves and any non regular user

KC61

Southsider1 wrote: »

Which confirms my belief that the whole thing is a farce. It's not "real time" at all. It's estimated and poorly estimated at that. Why won't they just say that it's an estimate and leave it at that without trying to pretend that it is some up to the minute time guide when it's anything but? Any seasoned bus user can do the estimates for themselves and any non regular user

Under normal weather conditions the system works. It is based around average conditions and that is how the predicted times work.

These are not normal conditions and no GPS system is going to be able to predict accurately how long a bus is going to take to travel given that conditions are varying wildly depending on snowfall or ice.

I really do not know how more clearly I can make this point. EVERY GPS system is predicated on average conditions. Schedulers have to sit down and come up with schedules for every section of every route, based on average conditions, and that is used then to add to the actual position of the bus to come up with an estimated arrival time.

No system in the world could realistically predict when the buses will arrive with the current road conditions.

A little bit of realism is required here.

Southsider1

KC61 wrote: »

Under normal weather conditions the system works. It is based around average conditions and that is how the predicted times work.

These are not normal conditions and no GPS system is going to be able to predict accurately how long a bus is going to take to travel given that conditions are varying wildly depending on snowfall or ice.

I really do not know how more clearly I can make this point. EVERY GPS system is predicated on average conditions. Schedulers have to sit down and come up with schedules for every section of every route, based on average conditions, and that is used then to add to the actual position of the bus to come up with an estimated arrival time.

No system in the world could realistically predict when the buses will arrive with the current road conditions.

A little bit of realism is required here.

And Realism is exactly what I'm looking for!!;)

Your missing my point though. I accept that "no GPS system is going to be able to predict accurately how long a bus is going to take to travel given that conditions are varying wildly depending on snowfall or ice". But why, for instance, is the website saying it will be at the stop at Wexford station in two minutes when the bus hasn't even left Enniscorthy yet? The whole point is that the service is clearly nothing like what they are portraying it as. I wouldn't mind if it was inaccurate by 5 or 10 mins but to be out by the guts of an hour is unacceptable when it's billed as "Real time".

Vic_08

Southsider1 wrote: »

And Realism is exactly what I'm looking for!!;)

Your missing my point though. I accept that "no GPS system is going to be able to predict accurately how long a bus is going to take to travel given that conditions are varying wildly depending on snowfall or ice". But why, for instance, is the website saying it will be at the stop at Wexford station in two minutes when the bus hasn't even left Enniscorthy yet? The whole point is that the service is clearly nothing like what they are portraying it as. I wouldn't mind if it was inaccurate by 5 or 10 mins but to be out by the guts of an hour is unacceptable when it's billed as "Real time".

If that level of inaccuracy is happening then something is messing up the system, probably a result of the severe disruption to that particular route in the last few days.

As long as the on-board equipment is working (and most are) it is very accurate at reporting the real-time location of buses. All the major depots have access to a map with each bus pin-pointed on it and reporting their duty which the system then uses to identify their route, direction and then extrapolates the predicted arrival time at stops along the route.

lil5

"All the major depots have access to a map with each bus pin-pointed on it ..."Why can't they make those maps accessible like the Dart or Aircoach?

ArcadeFred

I'm with Southsider here, its definitely not what they're trying to make out it is. Up until today I wasn't sure. On Saturday I checked it before I left for my bus (timetabled for 09.10) and it was saying the bus would be there at about 09.15, which would suggest the bus was just running 5 mins behind schedule. The bus didn't arrive til 09.35 but of course we can put down to the road conditions. Today, however, it was saying the next bus was due at 09.15 again, when in fact the bus - and all others before and after, according to the transport updates - had been cancelled since 07.50 Surely if it's "real time" information it should be telling you if your bus never left it's starting point and never will!

I wasn't even aware of the bit about it just showing scheduled times if GPS isn't available, this should be made more clear. And there's no reason for any of the buses on my route not to have GPS, they're all the newest double deckers.

call the police

Vic_08 wrote: »

There is a format list at the bottom of the website that explains which format relates to real time info and which is derived from the timetable.

ArcadeFred wrote: »

I wasn't even aware of the bit about it just showing scheduled times if GPS isn't available, this should be made more clear.

Vic_08 clarified it in an earlier post. i checked the website, it's quite clear to me.
"Explanation of the real time display:
x min The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop. hh:mm * The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop if arrival/departure is over 60 minutess away. hh:mmThe timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop. hh:mm C The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop when a Bus Éireann service is being operated by a contractor."

call the police

foggy_lad wrote: »

Bus Eireann sometimes use busses of varying quality(usually knackered ex touring busses) from private operators.

That bus would not have functional GPS meaning it only works off the timetabled times but if it had GPS you would have seen a delay from the times.

The system cant give GPS times for busses which do not have GPS fitted!

from the website: "Explanation of the real time display:
x min The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop. hh:mm * The number of minutes the service is from arriving/departing your selected stop if arrival/departure is over 60 minutess away. hh:mm The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop. hh:mm C The timetabled time for service to arrive/depart your selected stop when a Bus Éireann service is being operated by a contractor."

foggy_lad

The whensmybus website is completly messed up now because many of the routes have not been updated but new timetables just overlaid on the system so the 004 route still shows stops in Naas and Kilcullen if you chose Busaras as the destination but if you pick the airport as destination it only shows stops up to Carlow.

There are also other strange stops in Cork appearing possibly from the number4 route in cork city or waterford city services.

A complete mess now, unusable and more CIE wastage!

morke

For the last two years I have been in contact with Bus Eireann regarding the shambolic website 'WhensMyBus'. I am open to correction bt it seeming cost over €2 million to install. When it comes to the 101 and 103 routes the site is virtually useless.
Morke