Will the Opposition rubberstamp the bailout for billionaires?

Cavehill Red

I note that Brian Cowen sold out the country this evening, promising our collective future taxes in return for the right to repay bank bondholders who gambled and lost.

Obviously, this deal is fantastic for bondholders, great for the EU and their euro currency project, and disastrous for the people of Ireland who are now held to owe bank debts they never accrued.

Having committed this profound act of treason, Cowen and his cronies now intend to call a belated election and avoid responsibility for their treachery.

But what I'd like to know, in advance of such an election, is the position of the other parties on this bailout for billionaires. Will Fine Gael if elected endorse this deal they never signed? Will they honour the raping of this country for the benefit of Anglo's creditors?

What about Labour, or Sinn Fein? Will they cravenly accept this as a done deal or will they campaign on the basis that they will renege or renegotiate this deal if elected to office?

I want to know who I can vote for to have this stinking corrupt deal overturned. So, I look forward to the various political parties telling us whether they will stand by this corrupt sellout of the nation or not.

mgmt

TBH Id vote for libertas or another similar anti-EU party.

Einhard

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I note that Brian Cowen sold out the country this evening, promising our collective future taxes in return for the right to repay bank bondholders who gambled and lost.

Obviously, this deal is fantastic for bondholders, great for the EU and their euro currency project, and disastrous for the people of Ireland who are now held to owe bank debts they never accrued.

Having committed this profound act of treason, Cowen and his cronies now intend to call a belated election and avoid responsibility for their treachery.

But what I'd like to know, in advance of such an election, is the position of the other parties on this bailout for billionaires. Will Fine Gael if elected endorse this deal they never signed? Will they honour the raping of this country for the benefit of Anglo's creditors?

What about Labour, or Sinn Fein? Will they cravenly accept this as a done deal or will they campaign on the basis that they will renege or renegotiate this deal if elected to office?

I want to know who I can vote for to have this stinking corrupt deal overturned. So, I look forward to the various political parties telling us whether they will stand by this corrupt sellout of the nation or not.

What option, having made the decisions that delivered us into this crisis, did Cowen et al have but to accept the terms proferred by the EU/ECB, which involved a commitment to honouring the guarantees given to senior bondholders? For understandable reasons, Europe want the commitments honoured or else banks in France, the UK, and Germany will take an almighty hit. For equally good reason, it would be brilliant if Ireland could renege on the guarantee. However, the fact is that we require massive assistance from the EU, and not just to cover the bank bailouts as some have disingenuously asserted. A full €50 billion from the loan announced tonight is going to finance our budgetary shortcomings. Since the EU/Eurozone is proividing those funds, I don't think it's unreasonable that they protect their interests while doing so. To do otherwise is equivalent to me giving you a loan under the conditions of which you commit to smashing the windows in my home. The alternative of course, is to tell the Europeans to take a running jump, and resolve to sort things out without outside assistance. Which would basically mean that our banking system, without access to capital, would collapse within days, and any money that we have squirreled away would run out within months. What then? No money in the ATMs. No money for credit cards. No salaries for teachers. Or guards. Or nurses. Because that would be the impact of a default that went against the reasonable (from their perspective) wishes of the EU.

I'm open to correction in all of this. I could well be wrong. But I don't think I am. And I do think that those proposing default are emphasising the undoubted positives of such a move, whilst ignoring the massive negative consequences.

Cavehill Red

The topic is whether the Opposition will rubberstamp the deal or not. There are plenty of threads in here already on the pros or cons of such a deal. Take your argument for slavery to them, please.

Einhard

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The topic is whether the Opposition will rubberstamp the deal or not. There are plenty of threads in here already on the pros or cons of such a deal. Take your argument for slavery to them, please.

Wow, no need to be so snippy!

In answer to your question, to which my reply was entirely relevant, yes, they will. Because we really have no other option. See above for my reasoning.

Also, if you want an honest answer, you should ask an honest question, and not load it down with your own particular outlook. The tone of your post clearly indicates that you weren't simply interested in what the opposition would do re the loan facility.

nesf

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The topic is whether the Opposition will rubberstamp the deal or not. There are plenty of threads in here already on the pros or cons of such a deal. Take your argument for slavery to them, please.

Leave the topic/off-topic calls to the moderators please.

Also his reply was completely on-topic since he was arguing that the pros of the deal compel the Opposition into rubber stamping it.

Uuuh Patsy

Einhard wrote: »

What option, having made the decisions that delivered us into this crisis, did Cowen et al have but to accept the terms proferred by the EU/ECB, which involved a commitment to honouring the guarantees given to senior bondholders? For understandable reasons, Europe want the commitments honoured or else banks in France, the UK, and Germany will take an almighty hit. For equally good reason, it would be brilliant if Ireland could renege on the guarantee. However, the fact is that we require massive assistance from the EU, and not just to cover the bank bailouts as some have disingenuously asserted. A full €50 billion from the loan announced tonight is going to finance our budgetary shortcomings. Since the EU/Eurozone is proividing those funds, I don't think it's unreasonable that they protect their interests while doing so. To do otherwise is equivalent to me giving you a loan under the conditions of which you commit to smashing the windows in my home. The alternative of course, is to tell the Europeans to take a running jump, and resolve to sort things out without outside assistance. Which would basically mean that our banking system, without access to capital, would collapse within days, and any money that we have squirreled away would run out within months. What then? No money in the ATMs. No money for credit cards. No salaries for teachers. Or guards. Or nurses. Because that would be the impact of a default that went against the reasonable (from their perspective) wishes of the EU.

I'm open to correction in all of this. I could well be wrong. But I don't think I am. And I do think that those proposing default are emphasising the undoubted positives of such a move, whilst ignoring the massive negative consequences.

So whats is there to stop us taking the full 85 billion now and then defaulting... I know its theft but the EU has no concern for us and its not
like they will invade us to take it back...

We need a party who gives us
the option to pull out of Europe and default. That is the priority right now..
I don't care if I have to vote for monster raving luncatic party... That is the
only concern should have right now. Get this decision right and everything
else can be dealt with in time...

I can only hope and pray that Spain and Portugal have the balls to do what we cant the topple the Euro... The whole banking system stinks and if you are going to go through a painful adjustment it has to have some positive benefit...

Noreen1

It will be interesting to see how the various political parties will "spin" this.

The truth is, every party, with the exception of Labour, supported the Anglo bailout, which has led to the current debacle.

Call it simplistic, if you will - but if my own Mother (RIP), whom I trusted implicitly, asked me for a loan, my response would have been, "Of course, how much do you need?"

Now, any party can spin it any way they want - but I want an answer as to why that particular question wasn't (apparently) asked!

By the way, I'm not trying to advocate a vote for Labour, here.
I'm a floating voter, with no party affiliation whatsoever.

My own position at present is:

FF: Don't even approach my door.

FG: Why did you agree to support the Government in extending the Banking guarantee, when you didn't even have the final figures for Anglo?
All other parties/Independents: What are your thoughts on the current debacle?
Will you re-negotiate this Bailout?
What are your economic policies?

Hard questions need to be asked. I'll be making a long list.:D

Noreen

invinciblePRSTV

SF are putting a no confidence motion in Cowen down with the Indo's in their technical group.

We'll see then how FG & Lab are really concerned on bringing down this Government, i suspect they'll cry off or make up some excuses as to why they won't support it.

It'll be the Same ol' same ol' from our joke of an opposition i reckon.

senordingdong

They will do **** all to change the bailout conditions.
But they don't have to. FF have already been fingered for it.

Now all that the victirious oppostion has to do is.....try to not be wrose than FF.
Shouldn't be hard.

Bottle_of_Smoke

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1129/breaking11.html

The €85 billion EU-IMF bailout package for Ireland announced last night was roundly condemned by the Opposition parties who are now all likely to vote against the budget on December 7th.

Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Féin attacked the intention to use the National Pension Reserve Fund to help provide a further €10 billion in further capital for the banks. In total, the banks could end up getting another €35 billion if their losses are bigger than expected.

The remaining €50 billion is to cover the State’s borrowing needs for the next three years. Opposition parties were highly critical of the 5.8 per cent average interest rate that will be charged by the EU and the International Monetary Fund.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland programme, Fine Gael enterprise spokesman Richard Burton said it was questionable whether the deal would allow Ireland to break out of the vicious debt cycle it is in.

...

Looks like the opposition do not like the deal and will vote against so it now all depends on Jackie Healy Rae and Michael Lowry

yermanoffthetv

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Looks like the opposition do not like the deal and will vote against so it now all depends on Jackie Healy Rae and Michael Lowry

The fate of a Ireland rests with a parochial me feinist and an embezzeler. No change there then :rolleyes: