Iran has advanced NK missiles in range of Europe according to Wikileaks

Yitzhak Rabin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/28/AR2010112802983.html

The United States believes Iran has obtained advanced missiles from North Korea that could reach Moscow and cities across Western Europe, one of several secret diplomatic assessments of Iran's weapons program disclosed publicly for the first time Sunday.

The cables released also revealed how other arab leaders and military officials in the area have been calling for the US to intervene and take out Ahmedinejad

In one such plea, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia reportedly urged U.S. officials in 2008 to "cut off the head of the snake" while there was still time.

Whether this is a planned leak from the US in order to legitamise an invasion, or whether these missiles exist and are bone fide threats from Iran this is scary stuff. Is a war in Iran almost inevitable?

Run_to_da_hills

Why are these called cables?

Yitzhak Rabin

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why are these called cables?

Dunno tbh, I guess thats just what they call correspondence between embassy and intelligence agencies?

Rodin

So North Korea has missiles, actually means, Iran has missiles. Which it got from North Korea?

Is that right?

maddragon

And the hits just keep on coming.

Yitzhak Rabin

Rodin wrote: »

So North Korea has missiles, actually means, Iran has missiles. Which it got from North Korea?

Is that right?

Basically yeah. Its just been released in the last few hours, so I suppose we'll get more details tomorrow.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/middleeast/29missiles.html

Iran obtained 19 of the missiles from North Korea, according to a cable dated Feb. 24 of this year. The cable is a detailed, highly classified account of a meeting between top Russian officials and an American delegation led by Vann H. Van Diepen, an official with the State Department’s nonproliferation division who, as a national intelligence officer several years ago, played a crucial role in the 2007 assessment of Iran’s nuclear capacity.

The missiles could for the first time give Iran the capacity to strike at capitals in Western Europe or easily reach Moscow, and American officials warned that their advanced propulsion could speed Iran’s development of intercontinental ballistic missiles.

ArphaRima

Yes. North Korean missiles can technically reach europe. But only if they are placed beside europe!
Iran has them. They have a claimed range of 1200-1500 miles. By Western Europe they mean Berlin from Iran.

I'm alright jack.
North Korea have no Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. Yet.

wes

Well, no surprise that the Saudi's want to take out Iran, as they see the Iranian's as there foremost competition in leading the worlds Muslim community. Then there is the whole Sunni/Shia rivalry, as well the even more ancient Arab Persian rivalry as well. It has nothing to do with Iran being able to hit Europe with missiles, which they are incredibly unlikely to do, as there real enemies are actual the Sunni regimes like the Saudi royals, who would want them wiped out.

Also, I doubt Iran would attack anyone, as there regime would be overthrown by the West, with full support from the various Sunni and Arab nationalist regimes, who want to see them gotten rid of.

Now, having said that. The various Sunni regimes and Arab nationalist may want rid of the Iranians, but the average guy on the street, may see things differently and be pissed off at there governments, and especially after the mess that was the Iraq war, I think this will just piss people off at there governments some more, and even be seen as something of a betrayal. It may also lead to tension from various Shia communities around the Middle East as well, who will most definitely be pissed off about this.

loldog

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why are these called cables?

I'm amazed that this terminology went out so soon, in the 1970's everybody knew what a cable was. This is why it's called a cable:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_telegraph_cable

Have you heard of telex?

.

Mahatma coat

" People Who Dislike Iran Say Bad things about its Leader" Shocker

Now Y'll have to excuse me, but these 'Cables' are Written by and Circulated by American Diplomatic interests, so whether or not they Firmly believe the things they are reporting, its a Fair guess based on Recent experiences that We shouldnt.

old_aussie

Nov 28 2010 (Reuters) - King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has repeatedly urged the United States to attack Iranto destroy its nuclear program, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported on its website on Sunday.

The Guardian is one of a number of newspapers to have had access to U.S. diplomatic cables ahead of their publication on whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks.

Referring to U.S. diplomatic cables, the Guardian said that other Arab allies have secretly agitated for military action against Tehran over its disputed nuclear program. The Saudi king was recorded as having "frequently exhorted the U.S. to attack Iran to put an end to its nuclear weapons program," one cable stated, according to the Guardian.
"He told you [Americans] to cut off the head of the snake," the Saudi ambassador to Washington, Adel al-Jubeir said, according to a report of a meeting between Abdullah and U.S. general David Petraeus in April 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6AR0JO20101128

The US wants the Saudi's to wipe out Iran, that's why the US is supplying billions of dollars worth of arms to saudi Arabia.

Sunni vs Shi'ites.

In return, Saudi Arabia will then supply cut price oil to the US.

Riddle101

I call bullsh*t tbh. I will admit I don't know the full power of the North Korean military, but I don't think they have missiles of that calibre on them, and more to the point I don't think they sold any to the Iranians either. It just seems like the United States are telling a few fibs to raise tension towards the North Koreans in an attempt to bad mouth them to the the US's allies and anyone who will listen.

Jonny7

I don't really understand what people are debating here

North Korea is getting further range on its missiles all the time

Iran is trying (not so successfully) to do the same

We in the West don't like having missiles that can reach us, but that alone isn't a reason to go war only a propaganda tool (a la Iraq 45 minute claim crap)

There are no giant conspiracies, just a few suspected facts brought to light.

This is global politics, just not how they would like it presented to the public.

Manic Moran

Riddle101 wrote: »

I call bullsh*t tbh. I will admit I don't know the full power of the North Korean military, but I don't think they have missiles of that calibre on them, and more to the point I don't think they sold any to the Iranians either. It just seems like the United States are telling a few fibs to raise tension towards the North Koreans in an attempt to bad mouth them to the the US's allies and anyone who will listen.

Europe isn't actually that far from Iran. We like to think it's far distant due to the political and cultural differences, and it's reinforced in Ireland's case by the fact that the entireity of Europe is between Ireland and the MidEast. Tehran is closer to Athens than Dublin is and, really, Europe isn't all that big.

NTM

Kiki10

Manic Moran wrote: »

Europe isn't actually that far from Iran. We like to think it's far distant due to the political and cultural differences, and it's reinforced in Ireland's case by the fact that the entireity of Europe is between Ireland and the MidEast. Tehran is closer to Athens than Dublin is and, really, Europe isn't all that big.

NTM

Thats true and add a nuclear warhead on top of that rocket and it really doesn't matter if it misses by 200 miles your still dead. These religious fanatics are more dangerous that an Irish Bank

steelcityblues

Iran are the most vulnerable 'big' country in the Middle East and Asia, and they can't particularly be blamed to protect themselves at all costs from the rotten axis surrounding them!

Athlone_Bhoy

Kiki10 wrote: »

Thats true and add a nuclear warhead on top of that rocket and it really doesn't matter if it misses by 200 miles your still dead. These religious fanatics are more dangerous that an Irish Bank

That would be a big nuke.

Amazing Saudis said that but no surprise really. Where were most the hijackers from again?

Phoenix Park

To be fair, we deserve a missile right now

goose2005

old_aussie wrote: »

The US wants the Saudi's to wipe out Iran, that's why the US is supplying billions of dollars worth of arms to saudi Arabia.

Sunni vs Shi'ites.

In return, Saudi Arabia will then supply cut price oil to the US.

No, the USA want to maintain tension between SA and Iran so that the Saudis have to rely on them for support and sell them cheap oil. If Iran was gone, then the Saudis would be in a much stronger position and be less reliant on the US.

digme

yekahs wrote: »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/28/AR2010112802983.html



The cables released also revealed how other arab leaders and military officials in the area have been calling for the US to intervene and take out Ahmedinejad



Whether this is a planned leak from the US in order to legitamise an invasion, or whether these missiles exist and are bone fide threats from Iran this is scary stuff. Is a war in Iran almost inevitable?

I'm starting to think wikileaks is nothing more than a CIA front.

jmayo

fluffer wrote: »

Yes. North Korean missiles can technically reach europe. But only if they are placed beside europe!
Iran has them. They have a claimed range of 1200-1500 miles. By Western Europe they mean Berlin from Iran.

I'm alright jack.
North Korea have no Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles. Yet.

Nevermind Berlin, what about Kaiserstrasse 29, 60311 Frankfurt am Main, Frankfurt ?

digme wrote: »

I'm starting to think wikileaks is nothing more than a CIA front.

funny that thought crossed my mind as well. :rolleyes:

Riddle101

Manic Moran wrote: »

Europe isn't actually that far from Iran. We like to think it's far distant due to the political and cultural differences, and it's reinforced in Ireland's case by the fact that the entireity of Europe is between Ireland and the MidEast. Tehran is closer to Athens than Dublin is and, really, Europe isn't all that big.

NTM

But did Iran obtain advanced missiles from North Korea?

bmaxi

digme wrote: »

I'm starting to think wikileaks is nothing more than a CIA front.

Me too, engineered to build up panic in Europe just like they did with Saddam. At this stage I might trust Lenihan and Cowen before I'd trust the Yanks.

SamHarris

digme wrote: »

I'm starting to think wikileaks is nothing more than a CIA front.

CT forum is that-a-way.

The aquisition of missiles parralell to their nuclear program really is indicative of Iranian goals, those missiles are designed for nuclear warheads - I seriously doubt Iran is planning some sort of nuclear blitz of Western europe, or will even attack its neighbours, but the evidence that it is seeking nuclear weapons capability is stacking up to an enormous degree. Not saying any military action should be taken (that would be a disaster) but the discussion about some of their aims with regard to their nuclear program has become almost moot.

Americans seem to have come out as remarkably level headed from alot of these cables, I was expecting some really insulting stuff about foreign diplomats, some juicy hints at underhanded diplomacy but really all it gives is detail to common knowledge.

digme

SamHarris wrote: »

CT forum is that-a-way.

The aquisition of missiles parralell to their nuclear program really is indicative of Iranian goals, those missiles are designed for nuclear warheads - I seriously doubt Iran is planning some sort of nuclear blitz of Western europe, or will even attack its neighbours, but the evidence that it is seeking nuclear weapons capability is stacking up to an enormous degree. Not saying any military action should be taken (that would be a disaster) but the discussion about some of their aims with regard to their nuclear program has become almost moot.

Americans seem to have come out as remarkably level headed from alot of these cables, I was expecting some really insulting stuff about foreign diplomats, some juicy hints at underhanded diplomacy but really all it gives is detail to common knowledge.

cnn ,fox news is that way --->>>>
They're quite good at selling wars...

nesf

Thread titled edited to something more accurate.

ISAW

Kiki10 wrote: »

Thats true and add a nuclear warhead on top of that rocket and it really doesn't matter if it misses by 200 miles your still dead. These religious fanatics are more dangerous that an Irish Bank

That is nonsense! the North Korean failed attempt at making a nuke was about the smallest possible nuke that anyone could make. No way everyone within 200 miles would die from it. Not alone that but even if they had the world's biggest nuke they would not be able to deliver it by missile. Big nukes require planes to deliver them!

Of course a small nuke which is delivered by a reliable system is capable of wiping out any target. say something like a cruise missile.
You know the thing south Korea tested the day after North Korea failed to successfully detonate that nuke which had no delivery system?

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/South_Korea_Develops_Cruise_Missile_999.html

"We have developed a cruise missile capable of precisely destroying major military targets, such as missile batteries, in North Korea's rear area," ...South Korea is also allowed to develop cruise missiles with no restriction on range as long as its payload is under 1,102 pounds.

The "north Korea attacking Europe with Missiles" is a non story. there are ways they could do more damage to Europe than such a missile attack. It seems like a concocted story to me.

jimmycrackcorm

ISAW wrote: »

The "north Korea attacking Europe with Missiles" is a non story. there are ways they could do more damage to Europe than such a missile attack. It seems like a concocted story to me.

Not outside the bounds of reason methinks:

North Korea fires missile over Japan

ISAW

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Not outside the bounds of reason methinks:

North Korea fires missile over Japan

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_hr/021103qfr-dia.pdf
Answer D page 7

In 2003 the US Defense Intelligence Agency reported to the Congress that, "We have no information to suggest Pyongyang intends to deploy the Taepo Dong 1 (TD-1) as a surface-to-surface missile in North Korea. We believe instead that the vehicle was a test bed for multi-stage missile technologies.

http://translate.google.ie/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&u=http://vzgliad.ru/society/2009/3/27/269591.html&client=firefox-a

The question "hit what?" Today there is only one sensible answer - fear, psychological effect. The North Koreans do not have Nuclear warheads suitable weight and size characteristics.
...
forces of the DPRK in addition to the tactical short-range missiles have so far 25-30 Taepodong-1 missiles, range of 1500-2000 km (Iranian counterpart - "Shahab-3/-4) and 1-2" Taepodong -2 ".

Taepodong-1 could be capable of travelling as far as 5,900 kilometers with a very small payload
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau/pekdosan-1.htm

It is hyperbole!