Bus travel etiquette

trishasaffron

Way back when it seemed to me that there were a set of norms that everyone knew about (even if they didn't abide by them) when travelling on buses.

These included -

• leaving the disabled/elderly seats to fill last in case they are needed
• always sitting on the inside seat if it is available
• when it is standing room only - moving to the back of the bus so that more passengers can get on and so that the exist is not congested for people coming down the stairs

.

But now I observe that

• the disabled/elderly seats are filled first by anyone at all - sometimes vacated if a needy person arrives but this can be awkward for both
• nowadays often a person will stay sitting on the outside seat - letting the new passenger squeeze in (something I only ever saw in the US before)
• every bus I get on seems to be full and all the standing passengers hand around the bottom of the stairs and the driver never seems to ask them to "move down the bus" as used to be common.

So I wonder - have the rules changed? or are people not aware of them? or are they just ignored?

Could we have an information compaign to advise everyone of the rules - one thought is that so many travellers are not originally from Ireland that perhaps they don't know the rules. But if we do could it be clear? the last few ads I saw on tv about queuing were v ambiguous!

Tarabuses

trishasaffron wrote: »

Way back when it seemed to me that there were a set of norms that everyone knew about (even if they didn't abide by them) when travelling on buses.

These included -

• leaving the disabled/elderly seats to fill last in case they are needed
• always sitting on the inside seat if it is available
• when it is standing room only - moving to the back of the bus so that more passengers can get on and so that the exist is not congested for people coming down the stairs

.

But now I observe that

• the disabled/elderly seats are filled first by anyone at all - sometimes vacated if a needy person arrives but this can be awkward for both
• nowadays often a person will stay sitting on the outside seat - letting the new passenger squeeze in (something I only ever saw in the US before)
• every bus I get on seems to be full and all the standing passengers hand around the bottom of the stairs and the driver never seems to ask them to "move down the bus" as used to be common.

So I wonder - have the rules changed? or are people not aware of them? or are they just ignored?

Could we have an information compaign to advise everyone of the rules - one thought is that so many travellers are not originally from Ireland that perhaps they don't know the rules. But if we do could it be clear? the last few ads I saw on tv about queuing were v ambiguous!

These days everyone just looks out for number one.

snappieT

I can't comment on point #1, but I understand people sticking to the outside seat if they're getting off shortly (though they really should stand up to let the other person in). When it comes to standing next to the stairs, it's the same story - if you move to the back, more people will get crammed in and you won't be able to get to the front when you need to. This problem has been exacerbated by the removal of the second set of doors further down the bus.

Keedowah

The second set of doors are never used on Dublin bus - something that has really annoyed me for years. I used the bendy bus some time last year and was amazed that they didn't use the rear doors on them either.

Why not - are they afraid that someone will jump on them without paying?

Victor

Keedowah wrote: »

The second set of doors are never used on Dublin bus - something that has really annoyed me for years. I used the bendy bus some time last year and was amazed that they didn't use the rear doors on them either.

Why not - are they afraid that someone will jump on them without paying?

No, they can't pull in properly as bus stops are badly designed and there is a risk of someone tripping between the bus and the kerb.

Keedowah

Granted - but there are plenty of bus stops that I use that the bus lines up square with the stop but the rear door is still not used.

mikemac

trishasaffron wrote: »

[*]every bus I get on seems to be full and all the standing passengers hand around the bottom of the stairs and the driver never seems to ask them to "move down the bus" as used to be common.

I do this

For the simple reason is I get off a few stops before the end (Eyre Sq in Galway) and the bus does be jammed before then.
I've missed my stop before as I couldn't get past the crowd! I'm certainly not standing for the craic.
None of your fancy double deckers here unfortunately, I wish we had them. Though I think I read they are being introduced on one route, Merlin Park Hospital I think

Cookie_Monster

no such thing as proper queueing for a bus any more either, its just a free for all, barely leaving space for people to even get off

KC61

As Alek Smart has often mentioned on this site, Dublin Bus have one of the better set of bye-laws and much of this is covered by them:

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws

The relevant extracts are here:

Boarding and Alighting

Boarding and alighting from a vehicle

No person shall;
(a) use any entrance on the vehicle for any purpose other than boarding the vehicle, or
(b) use any exit for any purpose other than alighting from the vehicle, or
(c) use any emergency exit for any purpose other than alighting from the vehicle in an emergency, save for the purpose of boarding or alighting from the vehicle if so directed or otherwise allowed by an authorised person.

No person except an authorised person shall open the door of the vehicle except in the event of an accident or emergency.

No person except an authorised person shall stand or attempt to stand on the steps of the vehicle while it is in motion.

No person shall board or alight from or attempt to board or alight from any vehicle whilst it is in motion or (except in the case of an authorised person) between stops.

No person shall attempt to board or to alight from the vehicle after the doors have commenced to close.

Where notices are exhibited on a vehicle indicating that a door shall be used for entrance and another door for exit (except in the case of an accident or other emergency or with the consent of an authorised person) a person shall not board or attempt to board the vehicle by the door indicated for exit or alight from or attempt to alight from the vehicle by the door indicated for entrance.

When a vehicle contains the full permitted number of passengers no additional passengers shall board or remain on the vehicle. Any such additional passenger shall leave the vehicle on the request of an authorised person.

Each passenger shall queue at a bus stop in an orderly manner.

Where an authorised person is regulating the boarding and alighting from a vehicle, each passenger shall on arrival at a bus stop take up the position at the rear of the appropriate queue, move forward in an orderly and regular manner and obey the reasonable instructions of an authorised person regulating such queue and in the absence of such authorised person obey any notices displayed at the bus stop.

Passenger Behaviour

Each passenger shall comply with any lawful direction given him by an authorised person, including a request to leave or not to board the vehicle.

No passenger shall travel—
(a) on the upper deck of a double deck vehicle unless he occupies a seat provided for that purpose, or
(b) on the stairways of a vehicle, or
(c) on any other part of a vehicle which is not provided for the conveyance of passengers.

No passenger who, in the opinion of an authorised person, is in a state of intoxication or otherwise in an unfit or improper condition shall board or remain on the vehicle.

No passenger shall while travelling on any vehicle place his feet upon any seat except with the permission of an authorised person.

No person shall consume alcoholic drinks or other beverages or food while on the vehicle.

No person shall spit in or from the vehicle.

No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigarette, cigar or cheroot in any vehicle or part of the vehicle.

No person shall throw or deposit any litter, lighted match, cigarette, cigar, cheroot, chewing gum or other substance on the vehicle except into a receptacle expressly provided for that purpose.

No person shall throw or trail from the vehicle or throw at the vehicle any article or thing whatsoever.

No person shall remain on the vehicle after having been requested by an authorised person to depart.

No person shall distribute any document for the purpose of giving or seeking information except with the consent of an authorised person on the vehicle.

No person shall tout, ply for or solicit alms, reward or custom any employment of any description on the vehicle.

No person shall sell or expose or offer for sale any article or goods whatsoever on the vehicle.

No person while on the vehicle shall sing, perform on any musical or other instruments or use any audible radio, television, record player, tape recorder or portable apparatus.

No person shall molest or interfere with the comfort or convenience of any passenger or person in or about the vehicle.

No person shall at any time while on the vehicle use any threatening, abusive or offensive language.

No person shall behave in a riotous, disorderly, indecent or offensive manner in or about the vehicle.

A person shall deliver up to an authorised person any article of lost property found by him on the vehicle.

-Chris-

trishasaffron wrote: »

But now I observe that

• the disabled/elderly seats are filled first by anyone at all - sometimes vacated if a needy person arrives but this can be awkward for both
• nowadays often a person will stay sitting on the outside seat - letting the new passenger squeeze in (something I only ever saw in the US before)
• every bus I get on seems to be full and all the standing passengers hand around the bottom of the stairs and the driver never seems to ask them to "move down the bus" as used to be common.

If I were on a bus and the disabled/elderly seat was free, I'd happily sit in it. I have no problem with doing this as I know that as soon as someone who requires it arrives, I'll vacate it immediately.
IMHO, if there's no one who requires it on board, then it's just another seat. Also it means that if they do require it that I'm confident it'll be vacated quickly.

As per the people above, I sit based on when I need to get off, although I'll do my best to let someone past me if necessary.

I don't know why people don't squeeze further down the bus/train, it drives me bananas.

AlekSmart

I don't know why people don't squeeze further down the bus/train, it drives me bananas.

In most cases Chris,it`s because nobody directs them to move.

One of the downsides to the fluffy "Serving the Entire Community" palavah in relation to Public Transport is the dilution of the responsibility of the Operator to actually enforce the elements outlined in the Bye Laws.

A combination of effective PA usage and clear unambiguous requests will usually ensure that the capacity of the Bus can be fully utilized.

However,I would agree that most of my colleagues adopt a somewhat detached approach which soon sees a veritable army of selfish passengers clamped to tyhe luggage bay rail fully expecting everybody else to clamber over them.

Again it`s down to us in Dublin Bus actually studying the types of vehicle we operate,the layout of the stops and routes and giving Staff the confidence to manage their vehicle.

Driving the Bus is probably the least contentious and easiest aspect of the BusDrivers job.

It`s the associated interaction with other sectors of humanity that continually catches people out.

My own belief is that the Busdriver must be constantly aware of the continually changing situation on their Bus and based upon that should be attempting to manage the remainder of the load so as to make the entire operation smoother.

As an example I tend to ensure that if approaching a busy City Centre stop where a lot of passengers are getting off I delay opening the door momentarily until I have the departing passengers filling the Doorway....this ensures that the wild-eyed passengers milling about outside do not manage to force their way on and thus bring the entire process to a shuddering halt....simple but effective management of the situation I feel.

I have on many occasions requested ignorant aggressive passengers to step-back off the Bus until other passengers have alighted and I can say this approach is NOT appreciated one little bit...but I will continue to reinforce the need for some manners and commonsense to prevail.

The alternative is total anarchy with the irrisistible force meeting the immovable object with quite obvious results.

At the end of the day,managing mass human movement is not all that different from herding Cattle,Sheep or Pigs.

The basic rules remain the same for a Busdriver as for a Drover..make sure your dog can see the rabbit,give the flock a clear route to take and provide plenty of encouragement,verbal and otherwise to get them through rapidly....jobs oxo then !!

However just as with Drovering,the entire scenario can be demolished by the single rogue of the flock who for whatever reason decides to make-a-stand or go walkabout.

It also needs to be accepted that there are people who do not buy into efficiency in any form and who will take any opportunity to prevent efficient operation from triumphing....but hey..we are serving the ENTIRE community so what we do with them I do not know !!!

foggy_lad

People stay where they can get off the bus at their stops because of a number of factors,

1/ The centre doors are gone meaning it will take much longer to clamber through a full bus so being closest the door is best.

2/ Drivers do not give people any time to clamber through the mass of people they have allowed congregate near the door, pulling away as soon as the doors are clear of boarding passengers.

3/ People are generally ignorant on public transport and will not move even when asked pushed or elbowed:)

4/ Drivers in general do not react well to people shouting at them as they pull away from the persons stop because the person cant get through the mass of people who wont go upstairs or to the back of the bus.

5/ It can be awkward and sometimes dangerous to move around a bus while it is in motion so preparing yourself and moving through dozens of people to the doors of the bus ready to allight at your stop is not always possible.

Goonerette

The drivers should do more to force ignorant people who obstruct the only pathway to the only door to go upstairs or to the back of the bus, space permitting, by making announcements. Able-bodied people especially should not get away with congregating at the door when the top deck is half empty, creating the false illusion that the bus is full which causes newly-boarding pax not to even attempt to go upstairs.

Women are the worst offenders, it must be said, also for keeping their shopping bags and other rubbish on the seat beside them when there is a clear shortage of seats. I understand the anxiety of missing your stop because you couldn't push through in time or even falling due to the lack of handrails, but still. Do people have to stand there obstructing half the aisle with their body and the other half with their stupid handbag or backpack? It drives me mental. The situation is the worst on the 4. Often I will not get on it and wait for the 7 instead because it's just too stressful trying to make your way to the front door on a packed bendy bus. I'd rather be late than break my teeth. :pac: