visiting primary schools allowed?

piccerella

Hi,

I have a question. Is it allowed to visit a primary school during school hours?
I am doing a thesis on schoolyard/play area design and went to take a look at a school that won an award for architecture.

I asked the principal if i could take some photos of the exterior (building etc, not of kids). He said (in a rather condescending tone) that i could only come back on a Monday when there are no kids there and only take photos in a certain area.

I then asked if i could take a quick look at the yard (without camera), to see if it was worth the 40 min journey back again and he said 'but there are children there'......?

I think this country has gone mad : l

Mena

piccerella wrote: »

I think this country has gone mad : l

Perhaps, but I fail to see the economic perspective to this.

efb

I think you should look at it from the principal's perspective.

I can understand why he can't let you.

Mena

Mena wrote: »

Perhaps, but I fail to see the economic perspective to this.

That'd be an ecumenical matter.

piccerella

sorry i am new. didn't realize i was posting under economy.

byhookorbycrook

Some parents choose not to let their children be photograped at school and many parents would not like the idea of "a stranger" taking photos of their children ,not knowing where they might end up.

piccerella

yes i can understand that and didn't want or need to photo kids. but not letting me see the schoolyard?

byhookorbycrook

If you do not have garda clearence-and maybe even then someone would have to accompany you. There may be no member of staff available. What about asking them to take photos and email them to you?

piccerella

i could ask them yes but it's not really the same thing as seeing it yourself.

A friend of mine wanted to test school furniture he designed in a school. the kids were really excited about it but the parents of 2 children forbade their kids from doing it. It's a shame. People are overly cautious.

E.T.

If someone turned up in any school I know when the kids are present, asking to take photos, they'd be very politely told "no". When it comes down to it, it's our duty of care to protect the kids - and unfortunately there have been too many cases of abuse in this country to allow any area of doubt to occur. The principal can't just leave an adult wander around the school premises with a camera and I know if I was a parent I'd be furious if I heard of this occurring. It was actually pretty sound of him to give you permission to be on the premises when the kids aren't there - school premises are private property.

overmantle

piccerella wrote: »

Hi,

I have a question. Is it allowed to visit a primary school during school hours?
I am doing a thesis on schoolyard/play area design and went to take a look at a school that won an award for architecture.

I asked the principal if i could take some photos of the exterior (building etc, not of kids). He said (in a rather condescending tone) that i could only come back on a Monday when there are no kids there and only take photos in a certain area.

I then asked if i could take a quick look at the yard (without camera), to see if it was worth the 40 min journey back again and he said 'but there are children there'......?

I think this country has gone mad : l

There have been cases of reporters calling to schools pretending to come under another guise but actually checking on the vehemence of school procedures and how strict they are at enforcing school policies etc. Everybody was up in arms at the school, for not being more suspicious and being taken in by the reporters!

I think that if I had been the principal, I would have been very dubious of a request such as yours and it didn't really matter when you suggested just looking at the yard, I would say the principal was right not to trust you. I'm not saying your request wasn't genuine but he really couldn't afford to take the risk.

astra2000

piccerella wrote: »

yes i can understand that and didn't want or need to photo kids. but not letting me see the schoolyard?

You were there for your own interests nothing to do with the school. The principal had only your word that you were who you said. You should have rang up the school before you went there, to discuss the options available to you. You may have found the principal more helpful if you hadnt just presumed a right to have a look around and take photos. A 40 min journey is no big deal if it is that important to your thesis.

piccerella

Sorry, i should have said that i sent an email before and got no reply. When i called they said the right person would get back to me but they never did.

My tutor advised me to just drop by.

I did not assume i could take pictures and that is why i asked. it would have been nice to glance at the schoolyard (supervised) to know if it was worth the trip back.

The time i spent getting to the bus, waiting for bus, travelling to and from, talking to admin etc is most of a college day gone. That is a lot considering the course is mainly practical.

byhookorbycrook

Emails can be ignored, I know we get a great deal of rubbish to the school. The spam filter sometimes deletes stuff too. I would have made sure that it was ok with the school before spending all that time on something.

piccerella

Thanks for all the response. I probably did not go about visiting the school in the right way. I realize there is a lot of red tape in Ireland but i don't necessarily agree with it.

My thesis will discuss this to a certain extent. I have been looking for inspiring schoolyards but have found none. As I've been told, playgrounds have been pulled out for insurance reasons. Running has been banned in some schools. Isn't this ridiculous? I am not blaming school admin but instead overly cautious parents complaining. This is stifling children's creativity.

We shouldn't let paranoia get in the way of common sense.

Some interesting pioneers in this area are Sir Ken Robinson and Gever Tully (ted.com ) for anyone interested.


I'd really appreciate anyone's opinions on this subject. thanks.

overmantle

piccerella wrote: »

Sorry, i should have said that i sent an email before and got no reply. When i called they said the right person would get back to me but they never did.

My tutor advised me to just drop by.

I did not assume i could take pictures and that is why i asked. it would have been nice to glance at the schoolyard (supervised) to know if it was worth the trip back.

The time i spent getting to the bus, waiting for bus, travelling to and from, talking to admin etc is most of a college day gone. That is a lot considering the course is mainly practical.

I'm wondering if your tutor has much 'cop on' if that's the advice s/he gave you. I'm also wondering if somebody strolled in to your tutor to see him/her without an appointment, when s/he was supposed to be meeting somebodyelse, taking a class or whatever, what his/her response would be? It seems that it was just a complete lack of understanding, on the part of your tutor, if that was the advice you were given.

Toto Wolfcastle

piccerella wrote: »

Running has been banned in some schools. Isn't this ridiculous? I am not blaming school admin but instead overly cautious parents complaining. This is stifling children's creativity.

Running was banned in my primary school when I attended it. I left in 1998 so at a guess I'd say it was banned in about 1996. It's not a recent development and I'd imagine that it's a fairly widespread one.

piccerella

They banned it in my friends primary school too (he is now 32). The problem is we have cultivated a culture of fear since.

I don't believe this is the product of an advanced society. When i was in Germany i didn't have problems visiting schools. I noticed also that most beer gardens had playgrounds in them.

Ireland is a little America in many ways. It makes me sad.

overmantle

The main reason for children not running in school playgrounds is because of the litigious habits of some people in this country and the 'compo' culture that evolved as a result.

Many (but certainly not all) schools discourage running. Having said that, I know several schools where children can be seen running, playing football etc during lunchbreak. The screeching and fun of the children is a joy to hear.

Many school playgrounds are not as you've described Piccerella and that is the danger with 'theses', supervised by 'tutors', who are removed from the reality of school life.

overmantle

I suppose I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how you could be writing a thesis on a subject about which you don't have much of an understanding, being supervised by a tutor, who seems to have even less of an idea.

Mind you, this is not an uncommon problem or challenge. You are clearly not a teacher, so I am wondering in what context you could be writing a thesis. Feel free to pm me.

nick 56

I am glad the head teacher did not let you on site to take photographs; your posts prove you and your tutor to be careless of the children’s safety.
It is obvious that you should have written first including a letter of introduction from your tutor and an explanation of what you want and the collage you both are involved with. (which is?).
You cannot be so naive as to not realise that one of the tasks of a teacher / headteacher is to defend their pupils from paedophiles., and yes they do come with cameras.
I am willing to beleave you have no evil intent but with something as important as child safety especially mine no care is to great.

lily09

Its not just the compo culture that have prevented children running in schools. The children in my school run around like caged animals just freed at lunch time. In my experience in my current school I have found the parents to be very fair about the grazed knees and other injuries that are a regular occurance..Instead I would lay the blame on the Dept and their planning, school yards are being taken up by prefabs and their is simply not space for the children to play. My previous school was an inner city disadvantaged boys who due to a plethero of prefabs could not run, they needed to let off steam during the day but could not and the result was a large amount of discipline problems.It is so obvious the wet days the children are kept in the difference in behaviour and concentration.

piccerella

The thesis is on school design but play areas/gym halls in particular (interior, exterior, lighting, layout, equipment etc).

I had a letter from the college and ID and probably should have sent it in advance but it was frustrating getting no response in the first place.

I've spent a lot of time out of Ireland so yes i am naive of the school system here.

I'd be interested to hear about those good schoolyards mentioned or if anyone knows of any interesting ones. The schoolyards i have seen so far are of a very poor standard.

piccerella

overmantle wrote: »

I suppose I'm at a bit of a loss to understand how you could be writing a thesis on a subject about which you don't have much of an understanding, being supervised by a tutor, who seems to have even less of an idea.

Just to clarify, i am not writing about school politics but rather design (products and architecture).