Freeze on permanent teaching jobs

littlebsci

Fabulous!! More great news for those of us who aren't in secure positions!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1126/teachers.html

The Department of Education has introduced a freeze on the filling of vacant permanent teaching posts in schools.

The Department of Education has introduced a freeze on the filling of vacant permanent teaching posts in schools.
It has instructed school managers to fill any permanent vacancies only on a temporary basis.
It says this is so that it can adhere to the provisions of the Government's National Recovery Plan.
The plan includes the withdrawal of 1,200 teaching posts across the system.
These include Resource and Visiting Teachers for Travellers, as well as some English Language Support Teachers.
The freeze has been introduced so that teachers in those positions can be redeployed to fill existing vacancies.
This is a blow to young graduate teachers seeking work. It means that no permanent positions will be on offer.
The freeze is to run until next September.
The freeze does not affect vacant School Principal and Deputy Principal posts.

byhookorbycrook

Hard to see how a freeze is going to work or indeed save much money.

killbillvol2

The freeze means that, when the PT ratio is increased next year, teachers appointed from now to September won't be eligible for redeployment.

dory

Do you mean ST ratio??

I presume this is also so that they don't have to pay peope during the summer.

gaeilgebeo

dory wrote: »

Do you mean ST ratio??

I presume this is also so that they don't have to pay peope during the summer.

Will there be a freeze on people being made CID?

rainbowtrout

dory wrote: »

Do you mean ST ratio??

I presume this is also so that they don't have to pay peope during the summer.

??? PTR is Pupil Teacher Ratio.

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Will there be a freeze on people being made CID?

Probably not unless they change labour law. CIDs don't only apply to teaching, they apply to any form of employment. However with the nature of teaching they are a bit more prominent.

Thought it was a bit unusual that there would be a freeze on hiring for permanent positions. I thought there was no such thing as a permanent position anymore.

I assume they are referring to any positions vacated by retiring permanent teachers. We have two permanent teachers retiring next week and their jobs have not been advertised (40 hours between them). I assume it means that teachers will be brought in as substitutes only for the remainder of the year to cover the classes. When the cuts come in the budget (PTR goes up) we will lose at least some of those hours next year in our allocation and also they are preventing NQTs getting in at the last minute on the current payscale by getting contracts for this year.

EoghanRua

A friend of mine was offered a permanent (second level) teaching post last September, the first year of which is a probation year which I think is standard procedure. I was wondering if this freeze will affect her.

Is it still a genuine permanent contract with just a safety net for the school in the first year in case of disaster, or is the probationary aspect something that jeopardies her position in light of the freeze on permanent teaching jobs?

rainbowtrout

EoghanRua wrote: »

A friend of mine was offered a permanent (second level) teaching post last September, the first year of which is a probation year which I think is standard procedure. I was wondering if this freeze will affect her.

Is it still a genuine permanent contract with just a safety net for the school in the first year in case of disaster, or is the probationary aspect something that jeopardies her position in light of the freeze on permanent teaching jobs?

I've never heard of a teacher (personally) who was left go after their first year permanent. My first (and current) job was made permanent immediately and I was told about the probationary thing but that was about all. I think it's for any jobs that come up between now and December. The government must be expecting a lot of teachers to bail out pretty soon.

EoghanRua

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I've never heard of a teacher (personally) who was left go after their first year permanent. My first (and current) job was made permanent immediately and I was told about the probationary thing but that was about all. I think it's for any jobs that come up between now and December. The government must be expecting a lot of teachers to bail out pretty soon.

I suppose an other way of asking the question is if the Permanent status kicks in immediately (and the probationary year is just the first year of that) or is it only after probation.

In fairness, all the government has to do is tax pension lump sums in the budget and teachers and many others will rush out the door. Of course the government's probable inability to deal with the financial consequences of such a rush might be the deciding factor in not taxing lump sums.

killbillvol2

EoghanRua wrote: »

I suppose an other way of asking the question is if the Permanent status kicks in immediately (and the probationary year is just the first year of that) or is it only after probation.

In fairness, all the government has to do is tax pension lump sums in the budget and teachers and many others will rush out the door. Of course the government's probable inability to deal with the financial consequences of such a rush might be the deciding factor in not taxing lump sums.

The "plan" says they'll tax lump sums over €200,000 which wouldn't apply to teachers.
They've also said they'll extend (to February 2012) the period where public servants can retire and have lump sum and pension calculated on 2009 salary level.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

???
Probably not unless they change labour law. CIDs don't only apply to teaching, they apply to any form of employment. However with the nature of teaching they are a bit more prominent.

Thought it was a bit unusual that there would be a freeze on hiring for permanent positions. I thought there was no such thing as a permanent position anymore.
.

I've heard of a school who had 2 teachers retire 2009-2010 and their permanent posts became 'available'.. 1 post advertised and filled but the the other was withdrawn as another teacher who was due to be given a CID (totally different subject) was deemed to have taken up the equivalent of a permanent post within the school ...so the school still had to advertise the other subject on a Pro-rata basis..

It seems if you start work in a school these days you'll be impermanently indefinitely there until you reitre..what a crock...

how the hell do some politicians still have their teaching posts?? is there actually teachers in those schools in limbo preying for them to give up the post or die. I'd love to see Enda and Mary Hanafin go back to teaching after politics goes to pot.. hell freezes over etc..

It's be interesting to find out these schools and interview those teachers who are 'subbing' for Enda and Mary etc...

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

I've heard of a school who had 2 teachers retire 2009-2010 and their permanent posts became 'available'.. 1 post advertised and filled but the the other was withdrawn as another teacher who was due to be given a CID (totally different subject) was deemed to have taken up the equivalent of a permanent post within the school ...so the school still had to advertise the other subject on a Pro-rata basis..

It seems if you start work in a school these days you'll be impermanently indefinitely there until you reitre..what a crock...

how the hell do some politicians still have their teaching posts?? is there actually teachers in those schools in limbo preying for them to give up the post or die. I'd love to see Enda and Mary Hanafin go back to teaching after politics goes to pot.. hell freezes over etc..

It's be interesting to find out these schools and interview those teachers who are 'subbing' for Enda and Mary etc...

Oh I know, we've had permanent posts awarded in my school. Just making the point that they are so rare now that I was surprised to see the term being used at all.

Those teachers probably have their own positions at this stage. They would have certainly started in the school filling in for Mary, Enda et al but they have been gone from teaching for so long that any teacher in that position with half a brain would have gone for another position in the same school when it came up if the subjects matched. No more than any other secondment position.

D4RK ONION

Well, there goes my hopes of finding a job teaching! No idea what to do with myself now

primaryteach

Hi! Could anyone tell me if you can move diocesan panels? I am filling a temporary job in my school as I deffered my panel rights last summer. However, as my partner had to move to Dublin for work I have been trying to move up to him and was applying for permanent jobs in Dub. now that there is a freeze on permanent jobs I dont know if it will be possible to move. Is there a way that you can move your panels rights or am I being extremely wishful??

TheDriver

in this current climate and with the eng language and traveller support teachers coming onto the panels I'd say they won't want to know about you moving being honest. But then again, no harm in asking.

Think anyone considering the Dip needs to hear one thing: No jobs and lots of temp/pt people going to be let go at end of this year. No other words to say but all NQT teachers need to hear that one hard fact. There is little or no chance of getting a job.

implausible

EoghanRua wrote: »

A friend of mine was offered a permanent (second level) teaching post last September, the first year of which is a probation year which I think is standard procedure.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Oh I know, we've had permanent posts awarded in my school. Just making the point that they are so rare now that I was surprised to see the term being used at all.

This is so infuriating! Why the hell can't they have the same system across the board?! Some schools have advertised and offered permanent positions to teachers, while others (mostly VECs from what I can see) are only offering RPT contracts and permanency can only be got through serving your years and getting a CID.

So, as far as I can see, this news applies only to the non-VEC sector, as permanent posts have not been filled permanently in my present and last VEC school in a few years.

rainbowtrout

deemark wrote: »

This is so infuriating! Why the hell can't they have the same system across the board?! Some schools have advertised and offered permanent positions to teachers, while others (mostly VECs from what I can see) are only offering RPT contracts and permanency can only be got through serving your years and getting a CID.

So, as far as I can see, this news applies only to the non-VEC sector, as permanent posts have not been filled permanently in my present and last VEC school in a few years.

Hmmm.. I'm in a VEC (Roscommon) and Sligo VEC advertised permanent jobs this summer (probably for existing teachers but still).

implausible

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Hmmm.. I'm in a VEC (Roscommon) and Sligo VEC advertised permanent jobs this summer (probably for existing teachers but still).

I rest my case! Donegal haven't - it's all PRPT, even when replacing a permanent member of staff. Teachers simply get their RPTs converted to CID (sometimes needing a nudge from the union). Monaghan afaik is the same.

I'm now in my fourth year of a PRPT contract, replacing a permanent member of staff who retired and there was never a word of anything other than sitting it out and waiting on my CID next year. It's not like I'm surplus to requirements or anything - 2 teachers in my subject have come in since. And, from attending Union meetings, I know this is the situation across the VEC.

We are all doing the same job, there is EU legislation governing this area and yet different schools, counties and schemes operate differently. You only have to look at half the queries on this board to realise how confusing the whole situation is and the Dept and VECs thrive on this lack of clarity:mad:.

mme

I have a permanent job in dublin for the past 8 years. My boyfriend and I have decided to move to the west, where we are from and we were hoping to be there by next september at the latest. Now there is the news of no permament jobs being given out. Someone else said to me that I cant break my permanent contract for more than 6months - as in I would have to have another permanent job within 6 months of leaving this job or I would go back to the bottom of the scale. Can anybody advise me on what I can possibly do or is it a case of just forget about moving? I was thinking about trying for a teacher exchange for a year, or taking a career break and subbing to see what happens, but that could mean I will have to some back to dublin the year after. Any help would be appreciated.

implausible

mme wrote: »

Someone else said to me that I cant break my permanent contract for more than 6months - as in I would have to have another permanent job within 6 months of leaving this job or I would go back to the bottom of the scale.

That sounds like nonsense to me! If you leave one job and start another, you pick up from the point you left off. I wouldn't fancy your chances of walking straight into a permanent job, but with your experience you should be ahead of other candidates in going for positions.