when did we sell off all our natural resources,and why?

Bjorn Bored.

Ok I am certainly no expert but last night on RTE radio there was a lady on who said that while we got 50 billion in grants and handouts from the EU in the last number of yrs that our fishing industry alone was worth 10 times that amount, if that is the case when did we give it away and why so cheaply.

Then we have the corrib gas fields,they are worth an absolute mint and again we give them up for a small percentage to the exchequer, also our wind farms are owned by foreign companies and so on, you dont see countries like Norway Finland etc selling their indigenous industries for a song, as I say I am no expert so feel free to put me straight if I am way off,but it just seems such a waste.

mike65

re the fish, Irish exploitation of fish stockes had hardly begun when the Treaty of Rome negotiations were underway in the early 70s, basicly Ireland signed away a resorce they didn't think about to any great degree. The Irish didn't eat and still don't eat fish much but the Spanish live on it of course so they were thrilled.

Ray Burkes Pension

Also some of these sales were an opportunity for relevant minister to get a nice earner.

Victor

Bjorn Bored. wrote: »

Ok I am certainly no expert but last night on RTE radio there was a lady on who said that while we got 50 billion in grants and handouts from the EU in the last number of yrs that our fishing industry alone was worth 10 times that amount, if that is the case when did we give it away and why so cheaply.

No doubt hyperbole and exaggeration for political point scoring.

Then we have the corrib gas fields,

Do you mean the Corrib Gas Field - there is only one of them.

they are worth an absolute mint and again we give them up for a small percentage to the exchequer,

That is what was needed to encourage exploration.

also our wind farms are owned by foreign companies and so on,

Some, not all.

We are in a position where we are at risk from a lack of energy security. If there is war in the Middle East or trouble between Russia and Ukraine or other countries in the region and oil or gas supplies are cut off, we are end the end of the chain and its cold out there. Encouraging diversity in type and origin in fuel is important.

th3 s1aught3r

when did we sell off our national resourses?

I think we more gave them away than sold them

Scofflaw

The claim that hundreds of billions in fish were "given away" to the EU has been debunked multiple times - there's a useful summary of the various myths and realities here.

The claim that we have hundreds of billions in gas and oil is slightly less of a myth - we might do, but nobody has actually found it. Nor would any current finds be taxed under Ray Burke's regime - they'd be taxed at internationally normal rates for oil and gas. The reason we hand over exploration and exploitation of them to companies is for the same reason other countries do the same.

The claim that we actually have these enormously valuable resources and they've been mysteriously withheld from us regularly comes from the same journalist - Tom Prendeville of the Daily Mirror - who seems to take the largest BS estimate available and multiply it by somewhere between 3 and 100 times.

cordially,
Scofflaw

dRNk SAnTA

It's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

The Norweigians get so much money out of their oil that they can't spend it without over-inflating the economy. So they store it all away in a fund, The Government Pension Fund of Norway.

They obviously have lots of oil that we might not have, but if we were ever to discover some then what is the point in giving it away for nothing. The Norweigian fund is now one of the largest in the world, over 500 billion dollars! Nice for a rainy day!

jonnybravo

Whats the story with taxing oil and gas finds in Ireland?

Did I read somewhere that they are taxed at 25% of profits? Is this correct or does the normal 12.5% corporation tax rate apply?

I hope they find alot of Oil and Gas in Ireland but they have been looking for a long time around the coast and not a whole pile has been found yet.

Scofflaw

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

It's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

The Norweigians get so much money out of their oil that they can't spend it without over-inflating the economy. So they store it all away in a fund, The Government Pension Fund of Norway.

They obviously have lots of oil that we might not have, but if we were ever to discover some then what is the point in giving it away for nothing. The Norweigian fund is now one of the largest in the world, over 500 billion dollars! Nice for a rainy day!

The only find that was made under Ray Burke's regime (which was in any case a very similar regime to the one the Norwegians used to kickstart exploration in their waters) was Corrib. The current regime is quite different:

New licensing terms, including a profit resource rent tax, will apply to any finds made under this exploration round. This new tax will be in addition to the 25% corporate tax rate currently employed. It will operate on a graded basis of profitability as follows:

an additional 15% tax in respect of fields where the profit ratio* exceeds 4.5

an additional 10% where the profit ratio is between 3.0 and 4.5

an additional 5% where the profit ratio is between 1.5 and 3.0

no change where the profit ratio is less than 1.5

On our most profitable fields, therefore, the return to the State will increase from 25% to 40%.

A tax take of nearly half the profits on the most profitable fields in addition to 25% corporation tax isn't a giveaway.

People really need to get it out of their heads that we're still using Ray Burke's deal - we're not, and haven't been for several years.

cordially,
Scofflaw

CJhaughey

I am not so sure that those figure accurately represent the actual take of fish from the Irish EEZ.
There is a practice known as "Trucking" where a fishing boat catches fish in one quota management area and logs it as being caught in another area where there is more quota but perhaps not the fish.
If you look at the UK fleet it has a large percentage of Anglo-Spanish vessels which are also known as flagships. These are UK vessels that are owned and operated by Spanish companies, these vessels fish in UK and Irish waters but often land in Spain.
Not all the vessels are Spanish some are French which also have big quota entitlements.
Regardless of the current situation the fact is that Fishing if done properly is a sustainable income unlike the extraction of Hydrocarbons.
If we had Ministers with vision and a background in the fishing industry we could have a decent fishing industry, as it stands we have a Govt. that either doesn't care about it or thinks all fishermen are criminals.
Time after time in the last few months there has been talk of Irelands potential in Agribusiness but nothing is ever mentioned about Irelands potential in Aquaculture and fisheries.
Norway produced 700 million euro worth of farmed salmon in the year to September from 740k tons.
We produce 20k ton per year and we have no hope of increasing that figure while the current administration refuse to grant aquaculture licenses at all.
The whole marine sector has been badly neglected or worse actively discriminated against by successive governments and is a terrible indictment of an Island nation.

Scofflaw

CJhaughey wrote: »

I am not so sure that those figure accurately represent the actual take of fish from the Irish EEZ.
There is a practice known as "Trucking" where a fishing boat catches fish in one quota management area and logs it as being caught in another area where there is more quota but perhaps not the fish.
If you look at the UK fleet it has a large percentage of Anglo-Spanish vessels which are also known as flagships. These are UK vessels that are owned and operated by Spanish companies, these vessels fish in UK and Irish waters but often land in Spain.
Not all the vessels are Spanish some are French which also have big quota entitlements.
Regardless of the current situation the fact is that Fishing if done properly is a sustainable income unlike the extraction of Hydrocarbons.
If we had Ministers with vision and a background in the fishing industry we could have a decent fishing industry, as it stands we have a Govt. that either doesn't care about it or thinks all fishermen are criminals.
Time after time in the last few months there has been talk of Irelands potential in Agribusiness but nothing is ever mentioned about Irelands potential in Aquaculture and fisheries.
Norway produced 700 million euro worth of farmed salmon in the year to September from 740k tons.
We produce 20k ton per year and we have no hope of increasing that figure while the current administration refuse to grant aquaculture licenses at all.
The whole marine sector has been badly neglected or worse actively discriminated against by successive governments and is a terrible indictment of an Island nation.

The figures in question are from Pew research, and take into account whose boats catch what in whose waters. The figures for the Irish EEZ, for example, are broken down by catching nation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Nody

Bjorn Bored. wrote: »

Ok I am certainly no expert but last night on RTE radio there was a lady on who said that while we got 50 billion in grants and handouts from the EU in the last number of yrs that our fishing industry alone was worth 10 times that amount, if that is the case when did we give it away and why so cheaply.

Ireland has received net 42 billion and the fishing in Irish waters to date since 1950s for all countries inc. Ireland has been worth 12.5 billion (source here). This also excludes that Ireland today pulls up more fish (as percentage and volume) in Irish waters then they did before joining EU due to grants etc.

smartblaa

Scofflaw wrote: »

The claim that hundreds of billions in fish were "given away" to the EU has been debunked multiple times - there's a useful summary of the various myths and realities here.

The claim that we have hundreds of billions in gas and oil is slightly less of a myth - we might do, but nobody has actually found it. Nor would any current finds be taxed under Ray Burke's regime - they'd be taxed at internationally normal rates for oil and gas. The reason we hand over exploration and exploitation of them to companies is for the same reason other countries do the same.

The claim that we actually have these enormously valuable resources and they've been mysteriously withheld from us regularly comes from the same journalist - Tom Prendeville of the Daily Mirror - who seems to take the largest BS estimate available and multiply it by somewhere between 3 and 100 times.

cordially,
Scofflaw

If its the same guy, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a37sRjkLtWw

Mister men

PeakOutput

smartblaa wrote: »

If its the same guy, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a37sRjkLtWw

people keep predicting the end of the world too, eventually they will be right, it dosnt make them smart

didnt we kind of trade the fishing industry for the farming industry? with us receiving massive farming grants in exchange for portugal and spain receiving massive grants for fishing? thats how it was explained to me

Padraig Mor

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

It's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

The Norweigians get so much money out of their oil that they can't spend it without over-inflating the economy. So they store it all away in a fund, The Government Pension Fund of Norway.

They obviously have lots of oil that we might not have, but if we were ever to discover some then what is the point in giving it away for nothing. The Norweigian fund is now one of the largest in the world, over 500 billion dollars! Nice for a rainy day!

If you drill an exploration well in Norway, you'll likely strike gas or oil. If you drill one in Ireland, you're almost certain to find **** all. Despite the 'great gas giveaway' the nutters go on about, there's still very few companies exploring for gas/oil off Ireland. I wonder why......

mike65

o/t Are Norway going to throw us some money if they have so much of it?

Scofflaw

mike65 wrote: »

o/t Are Norway going to throw us some money if they have so much of it?

Maybe...

Sweden has warned that Europe’s financial stability is threatened by the crisis in Ireland and urged other non-eurozone countries to support the rescue effort.

Anders Borg, finance minister, told the Financial Times that Denmark, Norway and Switzerland should consider joining Sweden and the UK in contributing to the planned international bail-out for Ireland.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Laminations

Scofflaw wrote: »

The claim that hundreds of billions in fish were "given away" to the EU has been debunked multiple times - there's a useful summary of the various myths and realities here.


cordially,
Scofflaw

So what I read from that is that we fish more now than before our joining the EU. This is besides the point. Irish yields account for 8% rather than the suggested 40% of total european yields, again beside the point. I also read that Irish boats took in 25% of the €12bn worth of fish. This means 75% are caught by non Irish. While the Irish fishing industry is too small to take in this total volume., they should be allowed grow to fish their own seas. We have sea territory numerous times the size of our land territory, why are other countries allowed fish here? The French and Spanish have more land than us, should they be forced to parcel off their lands to Irish farmers? And then told 'well before you joined the EU you only produced x from y% of your land, now you get more from 25% of the land' and they'd just ignore that 75% of their territory is being farmed by non French??

How much does another country have to pay us for the benefits of fishing our waters?? Is it anything?

Scofflaw

Laminations wrote: »

So what I read from that is that we fish more now than before our joining the EU. This is besides the point. Irish yields account for 8% rather than the suggested 40% of total european yields, again beside the point. I also read that Irish boats took in 25% of the €12bn worth of fish. This means 75% are caught by non Irish.

Were caught - we currently catch about 40-45% of the fish from Irish waters. We didn't always do so - the figure rose from about 12% when we joined the EU.

Laminations wrote: »

While the Irish fishing industry is too small to take in this total volume., they should be allowed grow to fish their own seas. We have sea territory numerous times the size of our land territory, why are other countries allowed fish here? The French and Spanish have more land than us, should they be forced to parcel off their lands to Irish farmers? And then told 'well before you joined the EU you only produced x from y% of your land, now you get more from 25% of the land' and they'd just ignore that 75% of their territory is being farmed by non French??

How much does another country have to pay us for the benefits of fishing our waters?? Is it anything?

We fish in their waters as they fish in ours - so any picture of the CFP that only looks at Irish waters is very incomplete. Mostly, our boats also fish in UK waters, out of which we take an amount not very much less than the other EU nations take from ours. In turn, the UK boats fish in their waters.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no fan of the CFP. I'm just opposed to the silly claims that are made about how "we wuz robbed" of "hundreds of billions".

cordially,
Scofflaw

Laminations

Scofflaw wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - I'm no fan of the CFP. I'm just opposed to the silly claims that are made about how "we wuz robbed" of "hundreds of billions".

cordially,
Scofflaw

Agreed, it's not a goldmine but it is our resource. I'd just prefer it to be 'we fish our seas, you fish yours, and let trade (imports/exports) make up for any shortfalls'.

You'd have to demonstrate that 100% of Irish yields is equal to what we get from the current mix n match of fishing here there and everywhere. We import french wine and they import Irish produce, they are not given Irish land to reap this produce directly nor are we handed French vineyards. It's backward

Scofflaw

Laminations wrote: »

Agreed, it's not a goldmine but it is our resource. I'd just prefer it to be 'we fish our seas, you fish yours, and let trade (imports/exports) make up for any shortfalls'.

You'd have to demonstrate that 100% of Irish yields is equal to what we get from the current mix n match of fishing here there and everywhere. We import french wine and they import Irish produce, they are not given Irish land to reap this produce directly nor are we handed French vineyards. It's backward

It isn't equal to what we could fish from Irish waters by ourselves - but then, we couldn't even patrol Irish waters by ourselves. Instead, 5 out of the 7 fisheries protection vessels we have were paid for by the EU, and they subsidise our fishermen. Fisheries subsidies in Ireland account for nearly half the value of the landed catch, so it really isn't a particularly viable industry anyway. In the absence of the CFP, we'd likely still only have a small inshore industry, because that's the only bit that's really profitable for Irish fishermen without subsidies - which was why that's all we had before the CFP. If as a nation we ate a lot of fish, the picture would be different, but we don't.

cordially,
Scofflaw

whysomoody

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

The Norweigian fund is now one of the largest in the world, over 500 billion dollars! Nice for a rainy day!

Largest what in the world?

smartblaa wrote: »

If its the same guy, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a37sRjkLtWw

That was 9 years before the peak! hardly prophetic!

Also if we went back to 98 levels now, there would be an uproar!

Laminations wrote: »

Agreed, it's not a goldmine but it is our resource. I'd just prefer it to be 'we fish our seas, you fish yours, and let trade (imports/exports) make up for any shortfalls'.

You'd have to demonstrate that 100% of Irish yields is equal to what we get from the current mix n match of fishing here there and everywhere. We import french wine and they import Irish produce, they are not given Irish land to reap this produce directly nor are we handed French vineyards. It's backward

Nobody complained when we recieved all the money from Europe for roads schools projects etc.

We have by far been a net recipient of the EU so I, for one, am glad we are part of it.

mac_iomhair

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

It's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

The Norweigians get so much money out of their oil that they can't spend it without over-inflating the economy. So they store it all away in a fund, The Government Pension Fund of Norway.

They obviously have lots of oil that we might not have, but if we were ever to discover some then what is the point in giving it away for nothing. The Norweigian fund is now one of the largest in the world, over 500 billion dollars! Nice for a rainy day!

can you imagine what fianna fail would have done with that fund?! that would have been some weekend!!:D

CJhaughey

Scofflaw wrote: »

The figures in question are from Pew research, and take into account whose boats catch what in whose waters. The figures for the Irish EEZ, for example, are broken down by catching nation.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I couldn't care whose figure the report is using. Fish is one thing that is very hard to work out where it was caught.
Unless you have a person aboard the vessel in question.
You can catch the fish in one place/quota area and claim it was caught elsewhere.
Fishing is not like farming where you can see the animals on a farm and then trace their movements to the abbatoir.
It is very simple for a boat to sail from France or Spain up to Irish waters and catch fish, on the way back to their home port they spend a little time in another area that there is more quota present and hey presto the fish isn't caught in Irish waters but elsewhere.
Fishing is still hunting not farming.

nice_guy80

dRNk SAnTA wrote: »

It's definitely something that needs to be looked at.

The Norweigians get so much money out of their oil that they can't spend it without over-inflating the economy. So they store it all away in a fund, The Government Pension Fund of Norway.

They obviously have lots of oil that we might not have, but if we were ever to discover some then what is the point in giving it away for nothing. The Norweigian fund is now one of the largest in the world, over 500 billion dollars! Nice for a rainy day!

why don't we ask them for a bailout? Norway - who would have thunk it?

texas does something similar. a profits levy on all oil coming out of the ground. it has all been ploughed into universities and infrastructure. its why their roads, bridges and colleges over there are huge.

Scofflaw

CJhaughey wrote: »

I couldn't care whose figure the report is using. Fish is one thing that is very hard to work out where it was caught.
Unless you have a person aboard the vessel in question.
You can catch the fish in one place/quota area and claim it was caught elsewhere.
Fishing is not like farming where you can see the animals on a farm and then trace their movements to the abbatoir.
It is very simple for a boat to sail from France or Spain up to Irish waters and catch fish, on the way back to their home port they spend a little time in another area that there is more quota present and hey presto the fish isn't caught in Irish waters but elsewhere.
Fishing is still hunting not farming.

I think you'll find that all that is quite well understood in fisheries research. You can apply a variety of corrections for it, and constrain those corrections by using measurements in other parts of the chain. The figures may be out by a margin of error, but the margin of error isn't sufficient to change the figures in any material way.

Of course, one could claim that it's simply impossible to measure anything unless one has actually counted every single fish personally - which leaves one in the unenviable position of having nothing worthwhile to say about the issue, because one cannot cite any figures at all.

cordially,
Scofflaw

CJhaughey

Scofflaw wrote: »

I think you'll find that all that is quite well understood in fisheries research. You can apply a variety of corrections for it, and constrain those corrections by using measurements in other parts of the chain. The figures may be out by a margin of error, but the margin of error isn't sufficient to change the figures in any material way.

Of course, one could claim that it's simply impossible to measure anything unless one has actually counted every single fish personally - which leaves one in the unenviable position of having nothing worthwhile to say about the issue, because one cannot cite any figures at all.

cordially,
Scofflaw

You seem have great confidence in the ability of governments to know what fish is being caught where.
However from my perspective they realise that there are huge gaps that cannot be accounted for. There are current proposals are to install realtime video cameras on vessels so they can accurately assess the amount of catching and discarding that is happening.
How do you account for the Dutch pelagic trawler high grading in Irish waters? High grading is where the fish is caught and brought aboard but dumped because it isn't the correct size?
Do fishery scientists really have the calculations for that? I don't think so.
High grading is a particular problem especially in the pelagic fish stocks off the west coast.
I think you will find that fisheries science is a very incomplete science and that modelling techniques are used with no real way of ground truthing the results.
I am sorry but I have no faith in most stock assessment and management systems in the EU.

Kev_ps3

Bjorn Bored. wrote: »

Ok I am certainly no expert but last night on RTE radio there was a lady on who said that while we got 50 billion in grants and handouts from the EU in the last number of yrs that our fishing industry alone was worth 10 times that amount, if that is the case when did we give it away and why so cheaply.

Then we have the corrib gas fields,they are worth an absolute mint and again we give them up for a small percentage to the exchequer, also our wind farms are owned by foreign companies and so on, you dont see countries like Norway Finland etc selling their indigenous industries for a song, as I say I am no expert so feel free to put me straight if I am way off,but it just seems such a waste.

You live under a rock? Our government are criminal traitors, they gave them away.

Scofflaw

CJhaughey wrote: »

You seem have great confidence in the ability of governments to know what fish is being caught where.
However from my perspective they realise that there are huge gaps that cannot be accounted for. There are current proposals are to install realtime video cameras on vessels so they can accurately assess the amount of catching and discarding that is happening.
How do you account for the Dutch pelagic trawler high grading in Irish waters? High grading is where the fish is caught and brought aboard but dumped because it isn't the correct size?
Do fishery scientists really have the calculations for that? I don't think so.
High grading is a particular problem especially in the pelagic fish stocks off the west coast.
I think you will find that fisheries science is a very incomplete science and that modelling techniques are used with no real way of ground truthing the results.
I am sorry but I have no faith in most stock assessment and management systems in the EU.

I'm not using government figures, but I am using landed catch. Having been involved in the design of a BIM pilot IT project for catch monitoring, I'm aware of the issues in measurement, and the two salient points remain - that monitoring is sufficient to give usable comparative figures, and that if you prefer to dismiss all figures you can have no argument to make other than that dismissal.

cordially,
Scofflaw

jmayo

Scofflaw wrote: »

The only find that was made under Ray Burke's regime (which was in any case a very similar regime to the one the Norwegians used to kickstart exploration in their waters) was Corrib. The current regime is quite different:

A tax take of nearly half the profits on the most profitable fields in addition to 25% corporation tax isn't a giveaway.

People really need to get it out of their heads that we're still using Ray Burke's deal - we're not, and haven't been for several years.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well look at the politicans that drafted the legisaltion that applies to exploration in this country's jurisdiction.
ray burke, bertie ahern and frank fahy.
Do those names inspire you with a warm fuzzy feeling or do you ever wonder what if ?

mike65 wrote: »

o/t Are Norway going to throw us some money if they have so much of it?

They lost on the subprime crisis so not sure if they want to blow more money ?

Scofflaw wrote: »

Were caught - we currently catch about 40-45% of the fish from Irish waters. We didn't always do so - the figure rose from about 12% when we joined the EU.

We fish in their waters as they fish in ours - so any picture of the CFP that only looks at Irish waters is very incomplete. Mostly, our boats also fish in UK waters, out of which we take an amount not very much less than the other EU nations take from ours. In turn, the UK boats fish in their waters.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no fan of the CFP. I'm just opposed to the silly claims that are made about how "we wuz robbed" of "hundreds of billions".

cordially,
Scofflaw

Ah please we fish in their waters.
We may fish in British waters, but good luck finding much in Spanish waters and those hoors have hovered up most of our fish.
Check out the size of the fleet operating out of Vigo, it would not be half that size if it wasn't for our waters.
We should have a huge fishing fleet due to our geographic placement.
Of course historically we were not fish eaters and we never had the will to develop the industry.
But what industry we did have was sold out.
I grew up watching Joey Murrin on TV banging his head against a wall trying to fight for fishermen against governments and public that couldn't give a rats ass.
The CFP is a joke.
FFS fishermen have to throw back fish that they have gotten if they are over a quota.
These fish are dead, so throwing them back is of no benefit, except to some morononic bureaucrats.
If the fishermen keep them they face hefty fines.
Look at the arguments raging about cod fishing in the Baltic.
The EU haven't an effing clue.
I would rather our fishing industry was modelled on the Icelandic model.

And yes I do agree the losses stated as what we could have made out of fish are often way over the mark.

LostinBlanch

Ray Burkes Pension wrote: »

Also some of these sales were an opportunity for relevant minister to get a nice earner.

Nice user name!

I note that even your namesake didn't reduce the tax rate on profits to 25%, unlike a certain B Ahern! This happened in 1992. Now wasn't this about the same time that he was supposedly going around Manchester with his handout looking for digouts? :rolleyes:

For the record, ministers Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern changed Irish law in 1987 & 1992 so that multinational oil companies:
• own 100% of the oil and gas they find under Irish waters;
• pay no royalties on it;
• can write off 100% of their costs against tax, even costs incurred in other countries;
• have profits taxed at 25%, compared to an international average of 68% for oil-producing countries;
• can export the oil or gas outside Ireland

snubbleste

Experts now stating that all cod fishing in the UK and Irish Sea cease becauise of collapsed stocks. Looks like an exact repeat of the Grand Banks fiasco with mainly political inaction to blame.
UK cod collapse due to overfishing and political failure, says fisheries expert

Cod stocks in the Irish Sea and the west coast of Scotland have collapsed because of overfishing and politicians' refusal to fix low enough catch quotas, according to a leading fisheries scientist who advises the European commission on fish quotas.
Dr Paul Connolly's comments followed the European commission's decision on Wednesday to recommend for the first time that all fishing cod in the two sea areas is stopped. "Continuous over-fishing has led to a collapse in cod in both these areas. The signs have been there for years and scientists have repeatedly warned quotas must be cut but fisheries ministers have time and time again ignored us. We do not know now whether the stocks will recover."

Scofflaw

snubbleste wrote: »

Experts now stating that all cod fishing in the UK and Irish Sea cease becauise of collapsed stocks. Looks like an exact repeat of the Grand Banks fiasco with mainly political inaction to blame.
UK cod collapse due to overfishing and political failure, says fisheries expert

Chalk another one up to the competitive national quota-setting method of the CFP. My money is on the political round producing reduced quotas, but the scientific advice being ignored as usual in favour of fisheries ministers bringing home 'good news'.

gloomily,
Scofflaw

meglome

Shell to Sea at their 'honest' best. Took this outside Heuston station a couple of months ago.

Do they actually say anything that is true, I really can't tell?

Robbo

meglome wrote: »

Shell to Sea at their 'honest' best. Took this outside Heuston station a couple of months ago.

Do they actually say anything that is true, I really can't tell?

I see they're pretending that Topaz is owned by Shell again.