Capping politicians expenses at €30K, and what it would save ALONE

wolfpawnat

http://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/ebf2v/heres_an_interesting_way_to_save_10438214972_over/

Click on the "this spreadsheet" link, Scary stuff! And that is on top of their salaries and their pensions are none inclusive!

senordingdong

Save?

How much would we waste allowing them €30K of expenses?

Those ****ers earn a bomb for doing nothing, and then don't even have to endure half of the stupid taxes they inflict upon the rest of us.

They should be made pay for everything.

humanji

They should get minimum wage and a bus pass.

biko

If we are to start cutting corners, let's start at the top.

Too ****ing true!

It's impossible for Joe Public to mismanage tens of billions, only the government can do that.

KerranJast

€104m is a drop in the ocean of debt we owe. They should take a big cut to show leadership though. I would expect the next Govt to do so.

stephendevlin

KerranJast wrote: »

€104m is a drop in the ocean of debt we owe. They should take a big cut to show leadership though. I would expect the next Govt to do so.

it would be a HUGE help though. They would definatley get my praise if something like this was implemented. Then take thier fancy car's and drivers off them (or would that come under expenses?)

Sykk

KerranJast wrote: »

€104m is a drop in the ocean of debt we owe. They should take a big cut to show leadership though. I would expect the next Govt to do so.

Ah sher I'm only paying 400 a month tax, that's a smaller drop so I think I shouldn't bother paying it at all..

Hit the cúnts who got us into this mess first I say.

who what when

KerranJast wrote: »

€104m is a drop in the ocean of debt we owe. They should take a big cut to show leadership though. I would expect the next Govt to do so.

It most certainly is not a drop in the ocean! That amount of money could be put to some seriously good uses, debt or no debt!

Lord Trollington

Anyone else f*cked up of listening to all the possible solutions from various commentators on various Radio shows plugging books and their own agenda?

When are the IRISH PEOPLE themselves going to say enough is enough.
Last night when justifying the fact that Brian Cowen gets paid more than Obama, Lenihan said "sure Brian Cowen hasn't got the luxury of the Whitehouse".
Crazy fcuknig stuff altogether.
The only solution to this, the one and only solution in order to make TD's take a paycut is picket outside Dail Eireann for reform.

thebigbiffo

f'uck yeah. give them mileage for getting from their constituencies and a couple of nights in the berkeley court at 50 a night and that'll do them.

they're well paid - now dont f'uckin tell me i've to subsidise your shaggin iphone as well

bonerm

Sykk wrote: »

Ah sher I'm only paying 400 a month tax, that's a smaller drop so I think I shouldn't bother paying it at all..

Hit the cúnts who got us into this mess first I say.

Mortgage holders?

msg11

Nice to see the socialist Joe Higgins with expenses €288,255

The_Minister

Rather than just picking an arbritary figure, it would make more sense to go through the expenses individually and figure out what should stay and what should go.

There are some expenses that are necessary whether you like it or not, and removing them would compromise a TDs job (meaning: the job they should be doing), and others that only exist due to the local culture of Irish politics.

The former should be saved, the latter discarded.

Not all expenses are equal.

Gulliver

humanji wrote: »

They should get minimum wage and a bus pass.

+ 1 (actually 85 billion) on this!

These cnuts only got into politics for the massive wages, expenses and perks. They ran the country into the ground and still expect to get paid??

It's a real pity the sale of goods and services act doesn't cover faulty governments.

REPAIR, REPLACEMENT, REFUND!!:mad:

We should be talking jail time for these eejits, not cuts to their expenses. If I fcuked over a company the way they fcuked over the country, I'd be in serious trouble.

PeterIanStaker

Be that as it may, most people feel that politicians are overpaid.

In the current situation to see them brazenly claiming expenses like Callely for example, is galling and shows them to be hypocrites who want others (ie the rest of us) to fund their mistakes.

It's no wonder that people, myself included, feel distrust, cynicism and even hatred towards them.

They should lead by example, but I know they never will.

bonerm

msg11 wrote: »

Nice to see the socialist Joe Higgins with expenses €288,255

It appears only 5 of our 12 MEP's are on that list and Higgins spent the least of all 5. Compare him to FF's Pat the Cope Gallagher who spent €492,402.34. Although you'd prob prefer if Higgins worked out of cardboard box and lived on a sandwich and a cup of tea per day?

senordingdong

bonerm wrote: »

It appears only 5 of our 12 MEP's are on that list and Higgins spent the least of all 5. Compare him to FF's Pat the Cope Gallagher who spent €492,402.34. Although you'd prob prefer if Higgins worked out of cardboard box and lived on a sandwich and a cup of tea per day?

No.

But we would be happy if he lived up to the title and ideals of a socialist.

phill106

whycliff wrote: »

Anyone else f*cked up of listening to all the possible solutions from various commentators on various Radio shows plugging books and their own agenda?

When are the IRISH PEOPLE themselves going to say enough is enough.
Last night when justifying the fact that Brian Cowen gets paid more than Obama, Lenihan said "sure Brian Cowen hasn't got the luxury of the Whitehouse".
Crazy fcuknig stuff altogether.
The only solution to this, the one and only solution in order to make TD's take a paycut is picket outside Dail Eireann for reform.

Sorry, I thought mary was the president. And i don't live in any of the fabulous houses I see on csi miami. What has that to with anything mr lenihan!
I would actually like something like 10 downing street implemented for the taoiseach.

seamus

Rather than capping expenses, remove any automatic claims to expenses. Just make it so that everything must be vouched for with receipts. No implied allowances, no automatic payments. If Ivor Callally drove from West Cork to Dublin every day for two weeks, then he should be require to submit a claim for each and every trip, detailing his start and his destination and the reason he undertook the trip.

That's what everyone else on the face of the planet has to do to get any money back.

I don't care if a TD claims back €90k in expenses, provided that these are actual expenses, and not just allowances.

MrThrifty

I personally think all politicians should be on the average industrial wage (say ~35k) with a maximum vouched expense allowance of about half this. At the end of the day, I would imagine that anyone who is truly passionate about politics would be content with this. Unfortunately though, it appears that the whole system is and will continue to be one long gravy train full of self-interested, ego driven, a##holes... Why would they change a thing? You're right, the only way to try to get their wages and expense entitlements cut would be protests by the public but I'd say this would only result in minimal, token cuts being made.

The politics in this country is an absolute joke. I reckon Joe Bloggs could start up a new party, say the 'People's Party', in the morning and get them to power in the next election assuming there was no red tape. Granted, such a party would probably not be too effective for a whole load of reasons, but the bottom line is that people don't see any real alternative to FF at the moment that they actually believe in. I'm sorry for ranting but at this stage I'm really pissed at the politics in this country -> there's one thing that is simply missing from it altogether -> INTEGRITY.

It would be great for the IMF or some truly independent body to come in and review all politician salaries and expense entitlements and force the necessary reform. Unfortunately though, those in power (FF, FG, Labour, etc.) will never allow this...

seamus

MrThrifty wrote: »

I personally think all politicians should be on the average industrial wage (say ~35k) with a maximum vouched expense allowance of about half this. At the end of the day, I would imagine that anyone who is truly passionate about politics would be content with this.

Well, there is a valid argument that the less you pay for such a position, the worse people that you will get. €35k is not a massive amount of money, particularly given the long (and unsociable) hours that politicians have to do and the general amount of public pressure that they're under.

While you're right, that the only people you'll get to be politicians are those who want to, you will also exclude a lot of people who consider being a politican as a valid career choice, but when faced with the chance of a €100k a year job in accountancy or a €35k a year job in politics (with no chance of increasing your income by any grand amount), the vast majority of people will choose the former. Calling or no calling, if I'm good at something where I can earn €120k, I'm not going to switch to politics for the sake of the country. I come first.

Thus, you are not left with the best and brightest in political office. Just because someone realy really wants to be a politician, doesn't mean they'll be any good. Instead you'll get the likes of your busybody neighbour and you'll have nonsense signed into law making it illegal to smoke outside your house if it in any way upsets the look of the area.

The scope for corruption is also higher. If someone is on €35k and badly struggling, then an envelope stuffed with €5k in exchange for some minor planning favour seems like a very nice prospect. If you're earning €100k, then that €5k is less appealing because of the risk it involves.

All that said, paying big money doesn't guarantee that you get the best people. It also doesn't guarantee that your politicians are incorruptable either (in fact you get people who are cleverer at it).

The salary should be a large amount without completely taking the piss. €80k (across the board) would adequately create a very big carrot for people who are good at what they do and would be ample compensation for the poor hours and stress you would be under.
On top of that, TDs should not be able to change their own salary. It should increase/decrease in line with inflation, and any additional changes must be ratified by referendum. This effectively means that the salary increases in line with performance only.

TwoShedsJackson

senordingdong wrote: »

No.

But we would be happy if he lived up to the title and ideals of a socialist.

Can't find a link but doesn't Higgins not take his MEPs salary and takes the equivalent of the average industrial wage instead? Entirely open to being corrected here.

Noffles

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-divided-dail-unites-to-give-itself-a-pay-rise-2410792.html

At least they'll not have to worry too much about the cuts...............

Duggy747

The fùckers should be on a Commission pay, the more and valuable work they do and complete then the more they can earn and keep whatever salary is reasonably adjusted to them.

It's sickening the people feeding the economy are being torn strips off.

senordingdong

Noffles wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-divided-dail-unites-to-give-itself-a-pay-rise-2410792.html

At least they'll not have to worry too much about the cuts...............

Jesus wept.
Heaven forbid they should have to endure the same income tax hike that the rest of us get to enjoy.

humanji

humanji wrote: »

They should get minimum wage and a bus pass.

Ah but then someone would have to pay money on petrol for the bus, on maintenance for the bus, for someone to drive the bus.

Give them a bike instead.

galah

Noffles wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-divided-dail-unites-to-give-itself-a-pay-rise-2410792.html

This makes me angry.
The whole system up top needs to be reformed in line with what's going on in the rest of the country. Capped, performance-related pay, no more unvouched flatrate expenses, and pay your taxes/suffer like anyone else.

It's a bloody joke.

wolfpawnat

msg11 wrote: »

Nice to see the socialist Joe Higgins with expenses €288,255

Well the sickening thing is that is cheap compared to the rest of them.

Sure look at Gormley. What is mister green doing that he needs that sort of expenses!?!

twinytwo

step one.. slap the likes of seanie fitz in jail for life( for actuall life not the irish meaning for life)

step 2 cut all politicans wages, expencies etc. get rid off all the perks. Biffo should get no more than 150,000 sal plus 10,000 exp. everyone one else should get less than that.

step 3 sort out the massive amount of highly paid **** in the Public service that dont actually do anything... for the record i mean the suits. And streamline the ps.

step 4 get rid off the countless "advisors" that are flapping around the government

step 5 sort out the banks once and for all

Once all that is done we might actually get somewhere.

th3 s1aught3r

twinytwo wrote: »

step one.. slap the likes of seanie fitz in jail for life( for actuall life not the irish meaning for life)

step 2 cut all politicans wages, expencies etc. get rid off all the perks. Biffo should get no more than 150,000 sal plus 10,000 exp. everyone one else should get less than that.

step 3 sort out the massive amount of highly paid **** in the Public service that dont actually do anything... for the record i mean the suits. And streamline the ps.

step 4 get rid off the countless "advisors" that are flapping around the government

step 5 sort out the banks once and for all

Once all that is done we might actually get somewhere.

I would like to see all the people who ran the Irish banks have to answer for their role in the banking collapse. Then I would like to see all the members of the Fianna Fail party who contributed towards the crisis, including B Ahern and C McCreavey, answer for their contribution

Degag

The_Minister wrote: »

Rather than just picking an arbritary figure, it would make more sense to go through the expenses individually and figure out what should stay and what should go.

There are some expenses that are necessary whether you like it or not, and removing them would compromise a TDs job (meaning: the job they should be doing), and others that only exist due to the local culture of Irish politics.

The latter should be saved, the former discarded.

Not all expenses are equal.

Don't you mean "The latter should be discarded, the former saved?"

twinytwo

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I would like to see all the people who ran the Irish banks have to answer for their role in the banking collapse. Then I would like to see all the members of the Fianna Fail party who contributed towards the crisis, including B Ahern and C McCreavey, answer for their contribution

i love to see it too.. but we would need a politician with a back bone and some balls..... ( there is no such thing:()

irelandrover

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I would like to see all the people who ran the Irish banks have to answer for their role in the banking collapse. Then I would like to see all the members of the Fianna Fail party who contributed towards the crisis, including B Ahern and C McCreavey, answer for their contribution

Obviously their wages should be cut.
But how can you limit someone's expenses. You can't place a cap on expenses as then these politicains will stop travelling to do their job. Realistically you cant expect people to travel for business and pay out of their own pocket. I know I wouldnt do that and i enjoy when i get to travel for my work.
The thing that should be done is receipts provided for all expenses. And an obvious limit for the type of expenses claimed. Maximum amount allowed per hotel room. A cap on the amount they can spend for dinner. Its the only realisitic way of doing it. If you just cap expenses at €30,000 then these TDs would have used up their allowance by March and would stop travelling fortheir job.

the purple tin

It might get rid of some of the wasters who only got into politics for the dosh as well.

They should provide proof/receipts for all expenses too, we need some sort of third party organisation outside of the govt to keep our politicians in check.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

twinytwo

At the end of the day it comes down to greed... If everyone had put their country first instead of themselves we would not be where we are now

Noffles

twinytwo wrote: »

At the end of the day it comes down to greed... If everyone had put their country first instead of themselves we would not be where we are now

But it wasn't "everyone" that got the country into this state was it... it was a group of people, in various different areas, that had the ability to do it... Joe Schlub Public couldn't cause this....!

LittleBook

I wonder how much that waste of space and money Seanad Eireann costs us?

wolfpawnat

irelandrover wrote: »

Obviously their wages should be cut.
But how can you limit someone's expenses. You can't place a cap on expenses as then these politicains will stop travelling to do their job. Realistically you cant expect people to travel for business and pay out of their own pocket. I know I wouldnt do that and i enjoy when i get to travel for my work.
The thing that should be done is receipts provided for all expenses. And an obvious limit for the type of expenses claimed. Maximum amount allowed per hotel room. A cap on the amount they can spend for dinner. Its the only realisitic way of doing it. If you just cap expenses at €30,000 then these TDs would have used up their allowance by March and would stop travelling fortheir job.

Your having a laugh right!?!?! Many of the Dublin TDs are the highest. Last I checked it is €2 something to get a DART into town from Dun Laoighaire!

You can get from Cork to Dublin on Irish Rail for €10! Do that twice a week. €20.

Food in the Dáil is subsidised to fúck and back! It is as good as free!!!

Hotels are cheap these days too. Sure Bewleys at the Red Cow is doing good offers! Then they can pay €2.75 return ticket into town on the Luas. If you are told to travel with a company you are told to do it within a reasonable amount!

Then you have Gormley and his lads and they saying they are "Green" if that is so then why are theirs some of the higher expenses?

And as for petrol in their community, You go to their offices, they don't come out to you at all!

Yakult

Is their was ever a time to start trimming down the number of politicians (Why so many when half dont even do anything?) and expenses.
They HAVE to take cuts and deserve to be cut as those expenses are just rediculous and show how over the top this country was.

Venom

All the perks like Dail bar and cheep food needs to go. All expenses need receipts and only petrol, airfairs (if official business) and a basic accommodation rate for those without second homes in Dublin should apply. Food, drink and the rest of the bull**** expenses claimed by these wasters should not be entertained.

Wages need to drop for these clowns, as if Ireland is now broke and going to the EU with cap in hand we need to pay the same as other countries in the same boat.

twinytwo

Noffles wrote: »

But it wasn't "everyone" that got the country into this state was it... it was a group of people, in various different areas, that had the ability to do it... Joe Schlub Public couldn't cause this....!

well the way i see it, how many people bought second homes or even more than one that at the end of the day they didnt really need...

The_Minister

Degag wrote: »

Don't you mean "The latter should be discarded, the former saved?"

Whoops