Protection of Employees on Transfer of Undertakings

The_Morrigan

All, wondering if I can pick the brains of a few if I may
Mods, feel free to move if this is in the wrong place.


There is a bit of a debate at work in relation to employees rights within a merger/buyout/acquisition etc.

We all agree that you are transferred as you're found with regards to your contract and benefits (excluding pension) and that you can't be in a less favorable position once the transaction is completed.
We all agree that some changes to your day to day role maybe requested of you and as this usually isn't mapped out in any of the contracts, you wouldn't necessarily get a new contract to sign for the new company.
We all agree that your internal operations, reporting, systems etc may change to fit into the new company and this may have a day to day impact on you, but again, this isn't something that would be in a contract, so may just be provided through training, information packs etc.

However, where we all seem to disagree is where there is a complete role change, so moving from a back room support function to a client facing role, if your current job is no longer going to exist or moving downwards in rank, if a new top dog is put in above you in the schematic.
Some of us are of the opinion that if there is a complete overhaul, rather than a few operational day to day things you should be provided the new role in writing, offering you the new job/role and giving you the chance to agree/negotiate/acknowledge it.
Whereas the other argument is that its all covered under the transfer of undertakings and you just slot into the new company & role as part of that.

Is either opinion right/wrong?
Is it discretionary depending on the level of change involved?
Or is it just a case that companies are pulling the "be thankful you have a job at all" stance on this..

FreudianSlippers

Bumping this to answer when I have more time! I have (at least some) answers to your questions!

Someone will probably beat me to it but I'll try to get to it tomorrow if I can.

The_Morrigan

OisinT wrote: »

Bumping this to answer when I have more time! I have (at least some) answers to your questions!

Someone will probably beat me to it but I'll try to get to it tomorrow if I can.

Great and I'm hoping your answers match mine and I don't get stumped paying for lunch for one of my colleagues!!

**note to self, stop making bets like this before you've finished the law degree

D.McC

As I understand it, your role / position would be detailed on your contact, which might also contain a job description for that position.
A change in role from say… goods in to till operator would require a change in contract, T&C’s and possibly pay, which would result in the change in employment TuPE is designed to guard against.

The_Morrigan

D.McC wrote: »

As I understand it, your role / position would be detailed on your contact, which might also contain a job description for that position.
A change in role from say… goods in to till operator would require a change in contract, T&C’s and possibly pay, which would result in the change in employment TuPE is designed to guard against.

Thanks - that is what I was thinking.
Take for example my current job, I started in one position 5 years ago and was given a 2 page offer of the job which detailed the position, the salary, position grading and holiday entitlement, with the final paragraph stating that this letter must be read in conjunction with the terms of employment in the employee handbook, at the end there was a place for me to acknowledge/accept.
When I was promoted within the same team, I got another letter, detailing the new position, salary, etc etc and again I was asked to accept/acknowledge it.

So if that is the norm when you move from one role to another within the same company, I would have assumed that if you were being offered a role different to your existing one in the midst of a merger the same logic would apply.

D.McC

As I understand it, the employer taking on the transfer would have to honour the terms of your contract.

You could however been moved to another section / department within the business, as long as the role in the new area would be like or similar to the one you currently do.

The_Morrigan

D.McC wrote: »

As I understand it, the employer taking on the transfer would have to honour the terms of your contract.

You could however been moved to another section / department within the business, as long as the role in the new area would be like or similar to the one you currently do.

ah well ya see this is where the debate arose....one of the guys here, his gf or sister has been told her existing job wouldn't be there in the merged company, but she would have some other job...when she asked for a new contract she was told she wasn't entitled to one cos it was covered under the transfer.
Now I think that is wrong as there is a change of role and you can't rely on the existing contract/job spec as it won't exist.

I mean how do you take someone as you find them if you are getting rid of their job?

I personally think its a case of the big boys saying be thankful you have a job at all!!

D.McC

The_Morrigan wrote: »

ah well ya see this is where the debate arose....one of the guys here, his gf or sister has been told her existing job wouldn't be there in the merged company, but she would have some other job[QUOTE/]

That would only fall under TuPe if the new role was similar or like the old one.

Sounds more like the company are trying to not pay redundancy to this person and instead are hoping they will leave upon discovering the new position is a step down from the old one.

when she asked for a new contract she was told she wasn't entitled to one cos it was covered under the transfer.
Now I think that is wrong as there is a change of role and you can't rely on the existing contract/job spec as it won't exist.

I'd agree with you - new role = new contract.

The person involved should seek an exact description of what will be involved in this offered role. It might be the old role, just rebranded.

Although, I doubt it

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I mean how do you take someone as you find them if you are getting rid of their job?

I personally think its a case of the big boys saying be thankful you have a job at all!!

Well gee wizz, in this day and age shouldn't we just be thank full we're not going to hatch 44 :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The_Morrigan

The whole situation just seems a bit cloak and dagger to me - we are getting daily updates on the saga here, but none of our in house lawyers have Irish or EU law so they can't comment on the issues for certain hence the debates and theories on the subject.

FreudianSlippers

I have time today to reply to this

The_Morrigan

OisinT wrote: »

I have time today to reply to this

Can't wait

FreudianSlippers

Just read the thread and the replies from D.McC are pretty accurate and I have nothing much else to add. Sorry for hyping it up lol

The_Morrigan

OisinT wrote: »

Just read the thread and the replies from D.McC are pretty accurate and I have nothing much else to add. Sorry for hyping it up lol

Ah Boo and I was all excited an'all

green onion

Redundancy?
Hi all, I am sorry to hijack this thread but I am having bother starting a new thread as the option isnt showing on my screen.

I am wondering if anybody knows the answer to this please.

I am a manager of 2 shops. I work in one near my home 4.5 days a week for the last 3 years and I spend a half day overseeing the supervisors and staff in the other shop for a half day a week.Its an hour commure each way away to the other shop.

I have been informed that the owner has sold the shop that I currently work in and that I must move to the shop an hour away with a 7am start in the morning on 3 days and a late 10pm finish on 2 days . I normally work 10-6

I have schoolchildren and its just not possible for me.

My question is, that I have asked can I work with the new owner and I have been told no.He is only taking 1 other staff member thats paid 9euro per hour , he doesnt need a manager and I am too expensive.

I asked re redundancy and I was told that my contract states that I must work in any branch that they tell me to work in, and that they will pay the same pay that I am on and they want to keep me.

Unfortunately I just cant - but I really feel that I should be offered even the 9 euro per hour job in where I work now.

I have been told no.So I just have to resign. Shouldnt he have to take me as per transfer of business as going concern. When I said that to my company they said no effectively they dont need a manager so either you come with us or your position is redundant .I think if I forced the issue that would have offered me statuary for 3 years, but I need my job near home.Has this happened to anybody else? or has anybody advice , thanks