Recommended BHP For Towing

pm.

Hi All

just wondering what is the recommended bhp for towing a trailer. If I was to pick the new Mondeo 2.0 TDCI 115 bhp would it be enough to tow a trailer between 2 to 2 half ton. I need to put a case to my job, I will be travelling the country at times with a trailer attached up to 2 half ton and I want to get the 140 bhp Mondeo. what do ye think ?

CamperMan

it's not about BHP but the manufactures towing capacity for that car..

peasant

I'd be very surprised if the Mondeo could legally tow 2.5 tons

MarkoC

peasant wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if the Mondeo could legally tow 2.5 tons

Not even 2 tons

CamperMan

I just had a flashback of the time I sold a big Hobby 720 twin axle touring caravan to a guy driving a 1.0 Ford Fiesta.. he bought the caravan and towed it away, what a sight!

Wildly Boaring

For 2.5t your gonna need a Jeep. Don't think any car could tow that legally.

Here for 2.5t....
http://www.parkers.co.uk/advice/TowingWeightCalcResult.aspx?Braked=True&tw=0&kw=2500

Wildly Boaring

Although I see one obvious mistake...the Pugs

pm.

ok guys thanks but lets say 1.7 ton really dont want the 115 bhp

MidlandsM

Do you have a licence to tow over 750kgs? ........never mind the car?

-Corkie-

CamperMan wrote: »

I just had a flashback of the time I sold a big Hobby 720 twin axle touring caravan to a guy driving a 1.0 Ford Fiesta.. he bought the caravan and towed it away, what a sight!

Reminds me of this..:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhcL108AFF4

pm.

MidlandsM wrote: »

Do you have a licence to tow over 750kgs? ........never mind the car?

yes

MarkoC

MidlandsM wrote: »

Do you have a licence to tow over 750kgs? ........never mind the car?

Thats NOT the question here )

Wildly Boaring

Resorted to Google, all Mondeo diesels have 1800kg towing weight

http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/ford.htm#mondeo406

pm.

-Corkie- wrote: »

Reminds me of this..:D:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhcL108AFF4

lol

MidlandsM

MarkoC wrote: »

Thats NOT the question here )

Mark, I'll ask any question i see fit.......lots of people assume they can tow a trailer when they are unlicenced to do so over certain weights,and the OP intends to tow 2.5 tonnes.

Matt Simis

pm. wrote: »

ok guys thanks but lets say 1.7 ton really dont want the 115 bhp

See this car selector:
http://www.uktow.com/towing%20capacity.asp#tab1
Audi Allroad will tow 2.1tons, though that is ignoring the 85% rule. At 1.7ton at 85% is a 2ton car requirement.

Marlow

I'm not sure, how the legal boundaries are in Ireland, but in other countries it is specified, how much a car can tow as a max.

The max, a car may tow in the likes of Denmark (if the car is certified to do so) is it's own total weight, for 4x4's it's 1.5 times it's own total weight.

Towing 2 or 2.5 tonne with a Ford Mondeo would be considered reckless.

On top of that (and this applies to Ireland as well), if the total max weight of your car and the total max weight that your trailer is specified to is exceeding 3.5 tonne, you'll need a EB license.

So lets asume the total max weight of your Mondeo is 2 tonne and you hang a 2 tonne trailer behind it, that's 4t. You're not allowed to drive that with a normal car license.

/M

MarkoC

Marlow wrote: »

I'm not sure, how the legal boundaries are in Ireland, but in other countries it is specified, how much a car can tow as a max.

The max, a car may tow in the likes of Denmark (if the car is certified to do so) is it's own total weight, for 4x4's it's 1.5 times it's own total weight.

Towing 2 or 2.5 tonne with a Ford Mondeo would be considered reckless.

On top of that (and this applies to Ireland as well), if the total max weight of your car and the total max weight that your trailer is specified to is exceeding 3.5 tonne, you'll need a EB license.

So lets asume the total max weight of your Mondeo is 2 tonne and you hang a 2 tonne trailer behind it, that's 4t. You're not allowed to drive that with a normal car license.

/M

You need EB license after 750kg trailor, after 3.5tonne you need CE license as far as i know.

Another thing there is not that how much horsepower you have but how good are the brakes on the car

Marlow

MarkoC wrote: »

You need EB license after 750kg trailor, after 3.5tonne you need CE license as far as i know.

Another thing there is not that how much horsepower you have but how good are the brakes on the car

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/driving-licence.html

The link above states, that with the irish license, you need EB for any trailer over 750 kg. Under 750 kg you don't as you say.

I have a danish B/E license (the equivalent to the irish EB license) and it will cover me for up to 3.5 ton car + 3.5 ton trailer. As the license rules have been unified across Europe, I asume, it's the same here, but I've not found a reference to it right now.

EC is for truck+trailer.

/M

bladebrew

it says on category eb "Vehicles in category B with a trailer"

and just above that "which has a maximum weight greater than 750kg when fully loaded"


edit: beaten to it by marlow!

Marlow

bladebrew wrote: »

it says on category eb "Vehicles in category B with a trailer"

and just above that "which has a maximum weight greater than 750kg when fully loaded"

Correct. It does however not state, where the max limit is. The problem in Ireland then is, that there is no statement of what you may tow with a car. In other countries this is noted in the logbook, when the car is fitted with a tow-bar. And the car itself can be 3.5t on it's own.

Towing a trailer with bigger total weight than the towing car (unless designed to do so) is however still considered reckless.

/M

pm.

thanks for the replies guys, but the point i really want to make is that it would be a lot safer to have 140 bhp over 115 bhp for lets say overtaking slow moving vehicles

12 element

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eG_sD8yD40

motthomas

It wouldnt be about bhp for towing but all about the torque. Im afraid I still cant give you an answer to your question though. If the 140bhp mondeo has more torque than the 115bhp then ya it would be better for towing but thats not saying whether the 115bhp would be good enough or not if you catch my drift...

CiniO

pm. wrote: »

ok guys thanks but lets say 1.7 ton really dont want the 115 bhp

With a trailer you are not allowed to drive faster then 80km/h, so even 115BHP should be enough.
But as someone mentioned, mondeo limit would be something like 1700 - 1800kg. No more.

CiniO

pm. wrote: »

thanks for the replies guys, but the point i really want to make is that it would be a lot safer to have 140 bhp over 115 bhp for lets say overtaking slow moving vehicles

Obviously it is

CiniO

motthomas wrote: »

It wouldnt be about bhp for towing but all about the torque. Im afraid I still cant give you an answer to your question though. If the 140bhp mondeo has more torque than the 115bhp then ya it would be better for towing but thats not saying whether the 115bhp would be good enough or not if you catch my drift...

We measure power in BHP. Torque is closely related to power.
In other words: power = torque * revolutions.
So 140BHP will be always stronger then 115BHP.

CiniO

12 element wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eG_sD8yD40

Masterpiece

pm.

CiniO wrote: »

Obviously it is

now ye're talkin

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

We measure power in BHP. Torque is closely related to power.
In other words: power = torque * revolutions.
So 140BHP will be always stronger then 115BHP.

The maths is one thing, however haulers are low BHP and high torque as they want the torque down low. You do not want to get the torque by revving high, you want boosted low end torque that easy and fast to get to without requiring the engine to run at and maintain massive RPM.
Therefore you cannot say that a higher BHP car would be better for towing without looking at the torque curves.
eg, do you really think an S2000 is a better tow vehicle than a Touareg 2.5TDI?

PS: For god sake multiquote, stop replying to everything separately!

CiniO

Matt Simis wrote: »

The maths is one thing, however haulers are low BHP and high torque as they want the torque down low. You do not want to get the torque by revving high, you want boosted low end torque that easy and fast to get to without requiring the engine to run at and maintain massive RPM.
Therefore you cannot say that a higher BHP car would be better for towing without looking at the torque curves.
eg, do you really think an S2000 is a better tow vehicle than a Touareg 2.5TDI?

PS: For god sake multiquote, stop replying to everything separately!

Torque curve on itself doesn't really give you any info, because it depends greatly on gearbox ratio. You can have very big torque, but if your car will do 100km/h on first gear, the torque on the wheels (and that the real measure of force that the car is pulling with) can be quite small. On the other hand, small torque with very low ratio gearbox, will give you much more force, but say will do only 10km/h on first gear.
Considering it, it's way more easier to show how strong the car is, by showing power, not torque.

I think if S2000 has more BHP then 2.5TDi Touareg, then it could be faster while pulling heavy trailer. But other thing is a own mass. S2000 might be to light, and just the wheels would mostly skid instead of going with heavy trailer attached.

Matt Simis

CiniO wrote: »

I think if S2000 has more BHP then 2.5TDi Touareg, then it could be faster while pulling heavy trailer. But other thing is a own mass. S2000 might be to light, and just the wheels would mostly skid instead of going with heavy trailer attached.

My point is the S2000 would be "driving" at 6000rpm and the Touareg doing its thing at 2200. How long do really thing the S2000 engine would last given that abuse?

This isnt "my theory", this is why the haulage industry the world over uses high torque (with appropriate gearing as you mention) over high BHP engines, be they diesel in Europe or big CC Petrol (and some diesel) in the US.

alias no.9

pm. wrote: »

thanks for the replies guys, but the point i really want to make is that it would be a lot safer to have 140 bhp over 115 bhp for lets say overtaking slow moving vehicles

Towing 1.7 tonnes (never mind 2.5) with a Mondeo, I wouldn't worry about overtaking slow moving vehicles, you'll be looking for somewhere to pull in to let them pass you. A Mondeo is not suitable for that kind of work.

CiniO

CamperMan wrote: »

it's not about BHP but the manufactures towing capacity for that car..

BTW.
That towing capacity declared by vehicle manufacturer, applys to trailer GVW (gross vehicle weight) or the actuall weight of trailer.

In other words - say my car has a manufacturers declared max trailer weight of 1500kg.
Does it mean, that I can tow only trailer with GVW of 1500kg, or I can tow a trailer f.e. with 2500kg GVW, but which is almost empty and weight on itself only 1000kg (which is way less then limit 1500kg).

MarkoC

CiniO wrote: »

BTW.
That towing capacity declared by vehicle manufacturer, applys to trailer GVW (gross vehicle weight) or the actuall weight of trailer.

In other words - say my car has a manufacturers declared max trailer weight of 1500kg.
Does it mean, that I can tow only trailer with GVW of 1500kg, or I can tow a trailer f.e. with 2500kg GVW, but which is almost empty and weight on itself only 1000kg (which is way less then limit 1500kg).

You CAN TOW 1500kg doesnt matter is it empty or fully loaded, 1500kg MAX

CiniO

MarkoC wrote: »

You CAN TOW 1500kg doesnt matter is it empty or fully loaded, 1500kg MAX

So even if trailer is construced to carry bigger loads (f.e trailer weight 1000kg, max load 2000kg. GrossVehicleWeight 3000kg), I can still tow it with my car, unless I load more on it then 500kg (1000kg own weight + 500kg load = 1500kg and that's the limit for my car)
Am I right?

MarkoC

CiniO wrote: »

So even if trailer is construced to carry bigger loads (f.e trailer weight 1000kg, max load 2000kg. GrossVehicleWeight 3000kg), I can still tow it with my car, unless I load more on it then 500kg (1000kg own weight + 500kg load = 1500kg and that's the limit for my car)
Am I right?

Correct
But Ireland is wonderland and cops dont know much about that, smartest ones can screw you, usually you will be not touched iff you hold BE license

MunsterCycling

Marlow wrote: »

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/driving-licence.html

The link above states, that with the irish license, you need EB for any trailer over 750 kg. Under 750 kg you don't as you say.

I have a danish B/E license (the equivalent to the irish EB license) and it will cover me for up to 3.5 ton car + 3.5 ton trailer. As the license rules have been unified across Europe, I asume, it's the same here, but I've not found a reference to it right now.

EC is for truck+trailer.

/M

As an Irish resident you have of course exchanged this for an Irish licence to remain within the law!

Marlow

MunsterCycling wrote: »

As an Irish resident you have of course exchanged this for an Irish licence to remain within the law!

No, that's not the case anymore. Only non-EU licenses have to be exchanged or I will have to exchange my danish EU-license to an irish when it expires. In the case of my danish license, that's on my 70th birthday.

/M

SV

Don't you just hate it when someone asks a question and people start to ask questions that have nothing to do with them..

bloody hell, you're not law enforcers.

Cop on already.

kbell

Ford transit.

CiniO

MunsterCycling wrote: »

As an Irish resident you have of course exchanged this for an Irish licence to remain within the law!

He doesn't have to do it. EU licence is valid in Ireland to the end of it's expiry date. No matter if you are resident or not.

CiniO

Marlow wrote: »

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/driving-licence.html

The link above states, that with the irish license, you need EB for any trailer over 750 kg. Under 750 kg you don't as you say.

I have a danish B/E license (the equivalent to the irish EB license) and it will cover me for up to 3.5 ton car + 3.5 ton trailer. As the license rules have been unified across Europe, I asume, it's the same here, but I've not found a reference to it right now.

EC is for truck+trailer.

/M

It is unified over Europe, but there isn't really any limit set for trailer weight with EB licence.
Obviously with B / EB you can only drive a vehicle with GVW of 3.5t, so I don't think any of that vehicles is allowed to tow a trailer heavier then 3.5t
But that limit comes from vehicle limits, not from your licence limits.

In other words - if you got a 3.5t car that is able to tow 5t trailer, you would be able to do it legally with your EB licence.

It is really limited to 3.5t car + 3.5t trailer in Denmark?
Could you quote some law about it?

Marlow

This happens with a too small car and a too big trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilKq7WsuzMU

CiniO wrote: »

It is really limited to 3.5t car + 3.5t trailer in Denmark?
Could you quote some law about it?

Well, it's actually as you states, based on the vehicle limits (not in the licensing laws). So you are right, that you could tow a 5t trailer with a 3.5t car in Ireland. Not sure, if it's a good idea though.

Denmark has a strict rule that any B-class vehicle can't tow more than 3.5t. The NCT system simply won't license any cars to tow anything bigger than that and the max weight a car may tow is noted on the logbook by the NCT authority, when the tow hitch is fitted/certified.

/M