Brian Lenihan

dixiefly

Mods you can move this if you feel approriate

I have been trying to reconcile all of the speeches of Brian Lenihan in which he totally assured us that we had the cheapest bailout ever, that we were on the right path to recovery, that subsequent budgets would be easier, that the bond market changes were temporary etc.
Almost all of his critical statements have been proven incorrect in the end. I suspect that, on occasions, he was not fully sure he was correct but used his barrister skills to sound convincing and we all believed him (maybe not all).

It seems to me now that he is using this skill to convince us of the latest story he has to spin. Not exactly telling lies but he manages to cound convincing.

To me that is very scary as I no longer will believe a word that comes out of his mouth. I am not saying he is a liar but I just dont trust him anymore.

Getting him out of Finance asap is possibly even more critical to us than getting Cowen out - though that doesnt excuse Cowen, Aherne, McCreevy from overall culpability.

Leiva

An ill informed good guy .

dan_d

Rule of thumb - apply this to all politicians.

They got into their jobs by being able to say the right things at the right times. Not for any particular skill.Why would we trust any of them??

later12

In 2008 I genuinely believed the sincere intonation in Brian Lenihan's voice, I saw him as a decent and honest politician who respected the electorate, the office of Minister, and the state.

That belief has shown itself to be totally foolish and mistaken. I still think he is one of the most intelligent members of the house, but one can come to no other conclusion other than that he has misled the people of this country and he has been extremely economical with the truth in relation to fiscal policy.

The fact that Dick Roche - Dick Roche - of all the idiots in the house, leaked the bailout to an ITN reporter before we found out about it ourselves from the minister, speaks volumes.

I believe he has the respect of his cabinet, and that of his colleagues in other finance positions across the EU, but I genuinely have no further respect for the man in his professional capacity as Finance Minister.

Drumpot

later10 wrote: »

In 2008 I genuinely believed the sincere intonation in Brian Lenihan's voice, I saw him as a decent and honest politician who respected the electorate, the office of Minister, and the state.

That belief has shown itself to be totally foolish and mistaken. I still think he is one of the most intelligent members of the house, but one can come to no other conclusion other than that he has misled the people of this country and he has been extremely economical with the truth in relation to fiscal policy.

The fact that Dick Roche - Dick Roche - of all the idiots in the house, leaked the bailout to an ITN reporter before we found out about it ourselves from the minister, speaks volumes.

I believe he has the respect of his cabinet, and that of his colleagues in other finance positions across the EU, but I genuinely have no further respect for the man in his professional capacity as Finance Minister.

Ok . . This whole "lie" saga . .

Lets look at this logically . .

I personally believe that our government were 100% correct to withold the fact that they new that they would prob going to have to apply for the bailout.

What purpose exactly would it serve telling the Irish People that we will require the bailout ? Baring in mind we are speaking about the differance of just over a week, what differance exactly do people think it would of made as they would still be in power and people would still be angry.

There has been pressure on Ireland from the EU for a long time to take this bailout (for the greater good of the EU). I personally believe that Lenihan was arguing for a better deal and saying on one hand "well as far as our people are concerned we dont need a bailout, so if you want us to play ball you cannot touch our corporation tax" etc.

When people complain about FF and the things they do, there is normally a good conspiracy and something they actually gain by doing whatever devious deed they have performed. I see no advantage to them "lieing" to the Irish people for them in anyway.

People are angry with them, but it doesnt mean that we should allow ourselves to suffer to differentiate between what makes sense to simply what we want to make sense . .

NapoleonInRags

dixiefly wrote: »

Mods you can move this if you feel approriate

I have been trying to reconcile all of the speeches of Brian Lenihan in which he totally assured us that we had the cheapest bailout ever, that we were on the right path to recovery, that subsequent budgets would be easier, that the bond market changes were temporary etc.
Almost all of his critical statements have been proven incorrect in the end. I suspect that, on occasions, he was not fully sure he was correct but used his barrister skills to sound convincing and we all believed him (maybe not all).

It seems to me now that he is using this skill to convince us of the latest story he has to spin. Not exactly telling lies but he manages to cound convincing.

To me that is very scary as I no longer will believe a word that comes out of his mouth. I am not saying he is a liar but I just dont trust him anymore.

Getting him out of Finance asap is possibly even more critical to us than getting Cowen out - though that doesnt excuse Cowen, Aherne, McCreevy from overall culpability.

I have listened very carefully to Lenihan over the past couple of years - most recently on Matt Cooper today. I've long ago come to the conclusion that he is the most highly skilled spoofer I've ever heard.

Mr.Micro

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

I have listened very carefully to Lenihan over the past couple of years - most recently on Matt Cooper today. I've long ago come to the conclusion that he is the most highly skilled spoofer I've ever heard.

Just like today when he delivered the budget plan paper.....all sincerity and seriousness, just like he denied the bailout and all that sh*t last week with the same seriousness and sincerity. He talks utter BS and therefore is not to be taken seriously, just Party mantra.

Drumpot

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

I have listened very carefully to Lenihan over the past couple of years - most recently on Matt Cooper today. I've long ago come to the conclusion that he is the most highly skilled spoofer I've ever heard.

Apart from maybe Joe Higgins, please tell me a politician that doesnt "spoof". .

Lenihan didnt go into the banks and look at the books himself, he wouldnt be capable of, like many other ministers in differant positions.

He made the decisions and for that he will be remembered, but the announcements he made were based on information provided to him by advisers, public servants (regulator etc) and bankers. If he couldnt trust the people who were "helping" him to put the information/speechs together, what exactly could he do and if he really believed what he is being told, how was he lieing ?

And even if he quit, the alternative party would still be lied to.

People need to stop making up conspiracys about the intentions of the government. 50% of the U.S. think that their government was involved in 9-11. Point = people dont like to believe that our government can just get things wrong or be ill advised/informed. To suggest that they have lied to protect the banks for any other reason then believing that the national interest was at stake is just naieve at best. I am not saying that they were right, but I dont believe they lied, I think they just didnt think this would happen (and the people around them, supporting and advising them didnt either). That is the differance.

dixiefly

I see Lenihan is now saying that the reduction in the minimum wage will encourage employers to take on more people. I wonder what he is basing that on....the same assumptions that made him contend that our bailout was the cheapest way of dealing with the banking problem?

The reduced minimum wage may assist in getting new jobs only as part of a bigger strategy of bringing in new investment - certainly not in itself in my opinion anyway.

In the past I would have been inclined in my niaievty to believe this guy but his convincing tones have been weel rehearsed and dont indicate that he knows what he is talking about anymore!

Amhran Nua

dixiefly wrote: »

I have been trying to reconcile all of the speeches of Brian Lenihan in which he totally assured us that we had the cheapest bailout ever, that we were on the right path to recovery, that subsequent budgets would be easier, that the bond market changes were temporary etc.

Here's a good list of quotes cataloguing our descent into penury.

Nolanger

dixiefly wrote: »

To me that is very scary as I no longer will believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Have you seen the Enda Kenny interview on TV3 this week? That man is a lot worse.

Kristopherus

Well at least you can believe what Kenny says.

Nolanger

Yep, problem is he didn't actually say anything. The wan sitting beside Mark Cagney kept saying: 'yes or no Mr Kenny?' and he'd waffle on without answering their question. If Kenny becomes the next Taoiseach we're truly f*cked!

Arnold Layne

Whatever he says, think or do the opposite and you'll be right

steelcityblues

A brazen, verbal bullying sociopath!

Liam Byrne

If he says that it's raining I leave my umbrella at home.

waxon-waxoff

In fairness to Lenihan he was given the job of fixing up the mess caused by Cowen, Ahern and McCreevy. Its an impossible task and no matter what he does he cant fix the problem as its just too big. Lenihan may have made mistakes but he never set out to damage the economy. I also believe that the banks misled him about the scale of their borrowings at the start.

So whos fault is it? - the Irish banks and the huge banks in Europe that recklessly gave billions to them.

michael999999

Drumpot wrote: »

Apart from maybe Joe Higgins, please tell me a politician that doesnt "spoof". .

Lenihan didnt go into the banks and look at the books himself, he wouldnt be capable of, like many other ministers in differant positions.

He made the decisions and for that he will be remembered, but the announcements he made were based on information provided to him by advisers, public servants (regulator etc) and bankers. If he couldnt trust the people who were "helping" him to put the information/speechs together, what exactly could he do and if he really believed what he is being told, how was he lieing ?

And even if he quit, the alternative party would still be lied to.

People need to stop making up conspiracys about the intentions of the government. 50% of the U.S. think that their government was involved in 9-11. Point = people dont like to believe that our government can just get things wrong or be ill advised/informed. To suggest that they have lied to protect the banks for any other reason then believing that the national interest was at stake is just naieve at best. I am not saying that they were right, but I dont believe they lied, I think they just didnt think this would happen (and the people around them, supporting and advising them didnt either). That is the differance.

is that you bertie?

Amhran Nua

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

In fairness to Lenihan

What does fairness have to do with it? This is not a man who will ever need to look at his infant child with an ache in his heart, wondering will he be able to afford the new college fees. This is not a man who will ever secretly fold a mortgage bill away from the rest of the mail with a shaking hand. This is not a man who will ever spend a second in the poverty he and his cabal of wretches have condemned thousands or tens of thousands to.

Does that sound fair to you?

DJLJ

waxon-waxoff wrote: »

In fairness to Lenihan he was given the job of fixing up the mess caused by Cowen, Ahern and McCreevy. Its an impossible task and no matter what he does he cant fix the problem as its just too big. Lenihan may have made mistakes but he never set out to damage the economy. I also believe that the banks misled him about the scale of their borrowings at the start.

So whos fault is it? - the Irish banks and the huge banks in Europe that recklessly gave billions to them.

Seriously? You know what, here is a strange notion. Seeing as he is the minister, he could have put legislation in place so it was impossible for the banks to mislead him. But instead you think it was an impossible task? If that was indeed so, then he was in over his head and he was then a total failure for not speaking up about it and wanting out. No matter how you cut it, he has been nothing except an utter failure, like the rest of the fails. Nothing more, nothing less.

Paulzx

Unfortunately the leeway people were willing to give him originally due to his disconnection from previous cabinets has now been overtaken by anger at his incompetance.

I personally don't question his integrity. This unfortunately cannot be applied to many of his cabinet colleagues.

However, honesty alone is not good enough when you are in charge of Financial policy for the country.

He will go down in history as the Finance Minister who led us into the arms of the IMF and no one will care whether he was a nice guy or not

later12

Drumpot wrote: »

Ok . . This whole "lie" saga . .

Lets look at this logically . .

I personally believe that our government were 100% correct to withold the fact that they new that they would prob going to have to apply for the bailout.

Absolutely, I think you're right here. Knowing would have done us no ultimate good, and would not have positively effected the bond markets. You are absolutely correct in what you say.

I'm just making the point that we were told otherwise so absolutely convicingly, in Dail Eireann, in such sombre and sincere tones. Brian Cowen is wasted in politics.
That man should be in the theatre.

The lie is what it was - forget it. It was how they lied to us so convincingly. and spoke so assuredly from Leinster House about our autonomy that has eroded their credibility into the future.

hinault

Lenihan has been a disasterous MoF.
The worst MoF in the history of the country in fact.

I do believe that he has, how can I put it, been economical with the truth throughout his tenure as MoF.

To compound the wrong policies that he has implemented, he also wasted 26 months since issuing the bank guarantee which
has sunk our economy.

maringo

The reduction of E1 an hour in the minimum wage will be used as a cosh to bring down social welfare rates. For God's sake ---- how can you take 40 euros a week off someone working 40 hours a week on the minimum wage while still paying overpaid TDs a turning up allowance per day and huge expenses, computers, mobile phones etc. ??
It is an obscenity and totally unnaceptable to any fair minded individual. But then how can we expect fairness from such a shower of wasters. :mad::mad::mad:

doolox

Scandalous.

Does anybody know how many people are actually on min wage???

maringo

Its not how many are on it - its the whole principle of hitting people like my friend who gets up at 6 am to clean offices for s h i t money so she can feed and clothe her kids.

wolfpawnat

He is a born liar! He has lied to us constantly! I think most of us would not be as angry if the lies were not so blatant and frequent!

Seriously this would still be terrible if he had been honest with us, but at least we would know what was going on and could deal with it!

Also the way he speaks to people when they question the budget/4 year plan! As though he knows more than us. My toddler child knows more about economics than that bollix!