Motor tax and 4 year plan

Nuttzz

from "the plan"

The Government revised the vehicle registration tax and motor tax systems on cars to be based on the CO2 emissions of the vehicle, rather than on engine size, with effect from 1 July 2008. This change has been highly successful in encouraging people to purchase lower emissions cars. However, the change in purchasing patterns, combined with other factors, is having an impact on revenue yields, especially in the case of motor tax over the medium term.
During the Plan the current CO2 bands and rates structures will be examined in the light of the overall reductions in CO2 emission levels being made by car manufacturers and the standards set internationally with a view to adjusting the bands in line with technological advances on 1 January 2013.

So going all green has fecked up the councils revenue base so we'll be hiking the tax in 2013

RedorDead

From todays Irish Times - think it was overdue to be honest. 104e to tax a car for a full year was good going in fairness.

The Government intends to adjust the CO2-based tax band for cars by 2013 as part of the National Recovery plan announced today.

The plan states that the introduction of emissions-based tax systems for vehicle registration tax and motor tax, introduced from July 1st, 2008, has encouraged people to purchase lower emissions cars. “However the change in purchasing patterns, combined with other factors, is having an impact on revenue yields, especially in the case of motor tax over the medium term,” the report claims.

Government income has fallen significantly on the back of a drop in sales since the tax changes, alongside the move to cleaner cars. So far this year, over 79 per cent of the 86,464 new cars sold during that period fall into the lowest two motor tax bands.

Tax revenue figures for last January, the busiest month of the year for new car sales, show that Vehicle Registration Tax (VRT) on the sale of new cars fell 8.3 per cent to €63.4 million.

The industry has made radical improvements in lowering emissions in new cars, with several leading premium models, now qualifying for the lower tax bands and thereby significantly reducing the tax income generated from their sale and through motor tax. For example, this year Audi is offering a €67,000 A7 four-door coupé that will cost €156 to tax – as will BMW’s 520d. The same is true of a new Mercedes-Benz E-Class E200 and E220 CDI.

I would go for something along these lines

Band A 0-100g - €150
Band B 101-120g - €250
Band C 121-140g - €400
Band D 141-160g - €600
Band E 161-180g - €750
Band F 181-200g - €1000
Bang G 200 + - €1500

Leonard Hofstadter

I would favour restructuring the system so that motorists pay a 'flat tax' or at least that the variation in tax is less.

All kinds of desirable stuff does not sell in this country because of the fact that it is not in band A or band B. Of course the current system is better than the old cc system, but people who bought cars under the old system have lost out heavily, especially those who bought in 06 or 07.

There isn't really a need to have such a gap in rates for those who want a higher polluting car, the shift to low CO2 cars has long since taken place. People want to be seen in low emissions cars(those that can afford new ones at any rate do), the financial incentive almost comes secondary now. The desired effect of the CO2 system has been achieved.

The big problem with adjusting the CO2 rates is that older cars by definition are higher CO2 and this discriminates against those who bought cars even two years ago.

I would be in favour of retaining the VRT system so as to reward lower CO2 cars, it is easy enough to play around with the bands there, and at least you are not discriminating against those who can't afford new cars every year.

If they go messing with the CO2 bands then someone who has a car that emits say 215 g/km will be paying €1,050 in tax but say they reduce the threshold so that anything over 210 g/km is now band G and €2,100 tax. Do they apply it retrospectively, which means a massive additional bill in running the car is added, or do they only apply it to cars registered from 2011 onwards, which means that the older car has a massive advantage come resale time?

The above point would be less important if say there was only €50 gap per band. €400 or €450 doesn't make much of a difference really. This method also makes the tax stream more sustainable, there is more guaranteed income this way, and doesn't penalise people who don't want an ordinary box on wheels with a small capacity diesel engine. Diesel doesn't work for everyone(people who do short journeys are better off with petrol, modern diesels with their DPFs don't take kindly to being driven short distances only), but the current system means you'd be mad to go for anything but diesel in all but a handful of cases.

€1,050 or €2,100 does. I could just about stomach the former, but there isn't a hope in hell I'd pay the latter.

galwaytt

RedorDead wrote: »

From todays Irish Times - think it was overdue to be honest. 104e to tax a car for a full year was good going in fairness.




I would go for something along these lines

Band A 0-100g - €150
Band B 101-120g - €250
Band C 121-140g - €400
Band D 141-160g - €600
Band E 161-180g - €750
Band F 181-200g - €1000
Bang G 200 + - €1500

Well, considering my Aprilia Scooter is €78 to tax, but a 318d is only €104, then there's something seriously wrong. I still don't see any mention of equity of tax for the 100's of 1000's of cars pre-08. Once again, the 'haves' are prospering at the expense of the 'have-not's'.

coylemj

Just goes to show the Greens have their heads up their holes, they tinker with the tax system to make us drive more fuel efficient cars, then because we all got the message and moved down a notch on the emissions ladder they realise that they're taking in less tax - what did they expect to happen?

stephendevlin

galwaytt wrote: »

Well, considering my Aprilia Scooter is €78 to tax, but a 318d is only €104, then there's something seriously wrong. I still don't see any mention of equity of tax for the 100's of 1000's of cars pre-08. Once again, the 'haves' are prospering at the expense of the 'have-not's'.

the country just wants you to drive a **** car. Unless you can get the funds to buy a new car. So if you have an older car and you cant get the funds to change you get raped in tax.. if you are minted and can afford a nice newer car then you get cheaper tax..

I think car tax should be added onto the petrol / diesel

At least then the more you use the road, the more tax you pay... Its simple! And not to mention fair.

shedweller

galwaytt wrote: »

Well, considering my Aprilia Scooter is €78 to tax, but a 318d is only €104, then there's something seriously wrong. I still don't see any mention of equity of tax for the 100's of 1000's of cars pre-08. Once again, the 'haves' are prospering at the expense of the 'have-not's'.

There is something fundamentally wrong there alright. The greens also seem to pay no regard to the fact that CO2 emissions are totally determined by how much fuel you use.
There is 2.66 kg of CO2 Per litre of diesel
and 2.32 kg of CO2 per litre of petrol.
So a band A car is only band A if the car is doing its combined EPA mpg that gave it a band A rating in the first place! Anything higher may put into band B or worse.
I laugh when i see those smug prius drivers horsing down the motorway at 140kph!

Scrap the motor tax and tax the fuel instead. Then the polluter pays.
The greens should put their (our) money where their mouth is.

racso1975

I see there is a 9 million reduction to road maintenance. Not good if winter like last year!
Also 5 million reduction to RSA maybe they'll stop makin them stupid ad's now!

Del2005

They where never going to leave the CO2 tax rates as they where. As has been pointed out €104 for a car was crazy money and I don't know how the mandarins in the Department of Finance couldn't have foreseen everyone going to the cheapest car to tax, when decent sized engines became viable. Sure haven't Irish people always bought the cheapest to tax cars even if they ruined the car.

From the looks of it they aren't changing the old cc based system. Does anyone think they'll change that come budget day?

Thinking of changing to a 2l/2.2l proper car but don't want to pay too much more towards Bertie's pensions.

Atlantic Dawn

racso1975 wrote: »

I see there is a 9 million reduction to road maintenance. Not good if winter like last year!
Also 5 million reduction to RSA maybe they'll stop makin them stupid ad's now!

This will mean there will only be 5 council workers standing around with one of them filling a pothole instead of the usual 6

peasant

They're also going to double the carbon tax.

That's applied to fuel, isn't it

-Corkie-

peasant wrote: »

They're also going to double the carbon tax.

That's applied to fuel, isn't it

Correct that will be another 5C on diesel at least. God I hate them.

Seweryn

peasant wrote: »

They're also going to double the carbon tax.
That's applied to fuel, isn't it

...and we get VAT increased which will further affect fuel prices...

Hotwheels

Nice while it lasted, back to the pony and trap I suppose

MarkoC

Another year people buying crap cars and then they will increase the taxes ...
Hallelujah

greenermetals

i reckon if they just got those thousands of people that are dodging the tax for years and months at a time, they wouldnt have to keep punishing the people that ARE paying the tax

stevenmu

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

This will mean there will only be 5 council workers standing around with one of them filling a pothole instead of the usual 6

No chance, it's the one filling the pothole that they'll get rid of leaving the other 6 standing around looking at nothing.


Btw, the Indo today mentioned that they are getting rid of "Off the road" declarations, from now on if you own the car you pay tax on it, off the road or not.

Mc Love

In the UK its cheap as chips to tax your car - are we better off swearing loyalty to the Queen than having to pay VRT and ludicrous taxes?

woody33

What (or some of what) I don't understand is:
"2.32 kg of CO2 per litre of petrol"
A litre of water weighs 1kilo
petrol is lighter than water
So how can one kg of petrol produce 2.32 kg of CO2? Does it combine with oxygen in the air?

stephendevlin

stevenmu wrote: »

No chance, it's the one filling the pothole that they'll get rid of leaving the other 6 standing around looking at nothing.
.

Ha ha theres a joke about that

Man walks down the road and finds 2 council men at "work" on guy is digging a hole and the other guy swiftly behind him filling in the hole.. The man blasts that its a waste of taxpayers money and basically what the hell were they doing????

The guy that plants the tree's is off sick today he says lol :D:D

Conor_M1990

woody33 wrote: »

What (or some of what) I don't understand is:
"2.32 kg of CO2 per litre of petrol"
A litre of water weighs 1kilo
petrol is lighter than water
So how can one kg of petrol produce 2.32 kg of CO2? Does it combine with oxygen in the air?

A litre of petrol weights 1kg when it is sitting in your tank when that litre of petrol goes into your engine and is burned it creates 2.32kg of CO2 this is caused by the reaction you also have to remember that a car engine requires air as well which will have CO2 in it aswell

L1011

racso1975 wrote: »

I see there is a 9 million reduction to road maintenance. Not good if winter like last year!
Also 5 million reduction to RSA maybe they'll stop makin them stupid ad's now!

40M too little of a budget reduction for the RSA, tbh.

doleman2010

I see in the indo today that they are losing 75 million euro a year by allowing people to go to a Garda station and declare that the car was off the road for 1 or 2 months , It seems that now a car will have to continuosly taxed at all times ?
At least in the uk you can sorn a car if you are not using it for a while and their road tax on larger cars is an absolute steal compared to here.

woody33

"A litre of petrol weights 1kg when it is sitting in your tank when that litre of petrol goes into your engine and is burned it creates 2.32kg of CO2 this is caused by the reaction you also have to remember that a car engine requires air as well which will have CO2 in it as well"
Duh? Sorry, still don't get it.

mullingar

I guess I will have to "sell" the car to my wife, tax it, then say 5 months later "buy it back"

Tragedy

woody33 wrote: »

"A litre of petrol weights 1kg when it is sitting in your tank when that litre of petrol goes into your engine and is burned it creates 2.32kg of CO2 this is caused by the reaction you also have to remember that a car engine requires air as well which will have CO2 in it as well"
Duh? Sorry, still don't get it.

Carbon Dioxide is CO2, i.e. one carbon atom bonded to two oxygen.

mcwhirter

Mc Love wrote: »

In the UK its cheap as chips to tax your car - are we better off swearing loyalty to the Queen than having to pay VRT and ludicrous taxes?

Yes

Conor_M1990

woody33 wrote: »

"A litre of petrol weights 1kg when it is sitting in your tank when that litre of petrol goes into your engine and is burned it creates 2.32kg of CO2 this is caused by the reaction you also have to remember that a car engine requires air as well which will have CO2 in it as well"
Duh? Sorry, still don't get it.

ok

Petrol is made up of Carbon and hydrogen for an engine to work it needs to burn the fuel.for something to burn it requires Oxegen. When it burning the C binds to the 02 and this is what gives you C02 the extra weight is not actually in the fuel it is added when the fuel is burned

woody33

Gotcha now. Appreciate the explanation. I think I'll take my bicycle in future...oh no! People breathe out CO2 as well!

Timmaay

For each gram of petrol that your car engine burns, you need about 14.7grams of air, so that where most the weight comes from.

Funny enough its a sort of misconception that CO2 is dangerous and "bad", in terms of emissions, in an ideal engine you want all of the fuel to burn with oxygen and have just co2 as a byproduct, and not NOx, PM, HC etc, which are far more dangerous to your health. Which is the job of a cat converter, to burn up as much as theses as it can.

I heard recently that the greens minister who was in charge of this whole CO2 based road tax/vrt scheme once came out with the statement something to the accord of "why can't we put a catalytic converter on cars that reduces the amount of CO2 coming out of them":rolleyes: