Freesat and TNTSAT installation advice

carolireland

Hi.

We are interested in setting up Freesat for English channels and probably TNTSAT for French channels. We may also add the new Saortv channels in due course.
We live by the sea and would like to install a reasonably good system.
We are trying to feed 2 televisions. One tv with freesat only, the other with freesat and tntsat.

We are thinking of purchasing
a Triax dish (78 cms?) or would we need bigger?
Triax dual lnb holder
Titanium quad lnb
(one for Freesat and one for Tntsat, 9 degrees between satellites)
450 mms bracket
Freesat Humax Foxsat HD-R (2 receivers for seperate tvs)
TNTSAT France Sagem HD-R receiver and viewing card.

With regard to the Irish channels we could get an aerial (DTT UHF log periodic) or should we wait and see can we add it by satellite?

We will have a fairly long run of cabling as well. Is there a grade of cable needed for this?

Many thanks.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

watty

See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69188493&postcount=8
(and thread)
also
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003507

and http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/
also
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/saorsat-reception/

these answer all the questions.

You need a Multiswitch to combine the LNBs. Best only one Quad, and 19.2E is a Quattro. Saorsat isn't available yet and needs a different kind of LNBF, a Ka-Band "single" A Quad or Quattro will never be needed for Ka-Sat. Then the French HD receiver should be able to "tune" Freesat and Saorsat if it has Diseqc and the Humax will be able to get all the free channels on 19.2E, inc BBC World and a couple of FTA French channels, and also the Saorsat if it becomes available.


You use TX100, PF100 etc satellite cable for satellite IF and TV aerial.

How long is "long"?

carolireland

Many many thanks Watty for the references.
We live on the East coast and my father and my son are thinking of trying to install the system themselves. I will read through the information you have given us and hope you don't mind me asking more questions if I get stuck. Your advice is very much appreciated.
The length of cable we think will be about 30 metres or a bit more.

watty

30m is no problem for modern LNBs. If 40m you can use PF125. It's very durable anyway for outdoor run.

carolireland

Thank you very much Watty.
Am I correct in thinking that a Triax 78 dish would be ok for this set up in the East of the country or would we need something larger?
And thanks again for all the help.

watty

The 78 would be OK on East Coast. But an 88 will maintain signal in very heavy rain or let you add weaker satellites. If your feed cable is closer to 35m than 25m, seriously consider the 88. It won't look much bigger.

carolireland

Thanks again Watty. You are very kind to share your knowledge.

Would an 88 cms dish be too big to attach to a wall of a house? Or would it need to be placed on a pole?

We have had a look at your satellite dish set up on the photo and are going to try to put in something similar.

watty

If attached properly it's not a problem.

Serious masonry bolts, long enough that embed in the brick / block work, not just the rendering. Use ones where the bolt is just small enough to fit hole on bracket, not skinny ones. Do not ever fit at top of a wall or the bolt may lift a block if it goes into the mortar instead of block/brick.

Poles are harder to do.

carolireland

Hi and many thanks again.

We have decided to go with the 88 cms and try the configuration you suggested.

If we were to use one receiver (eg French receiver) to bring in Freesat, TnTSat and Saorsat would this mean if you were recording a programme from TNTSAT you could only watch a programme at the same time from the same satellite?

Many thanks again for your patience with the questions.

watty

If you have a proper Dual Tuner PVR for TNTSat (that also supports HD and Diseqc), then you can watch one program and record a different one, on any of the three satellites.

Then you need a Multiswitch or 2 x Diseqc switches, so that either tuner can select either satellite automatically.

This discussion is similar, especially the part about multiswitches
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003507

Particularly http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003507#comment-1004343

Though it's about €250 to €300 I recommend the 17 in 16 out Multiswitch as this allows painless addition of more satellite receivers and Saorsat and maybe Hotbirds to Freesat + TNTsat later. The 17th input is optional for an aerial

carolireland

Many many thanks Watty.
As soon as this weather improves a bit we will have a go at starting the installation.

carolireland

Would you have any recommendations with regard to a particular brand/model of receiver that would be suitable as a proper Dual Tuner PVR for TNTSAT which could get Freesat and Saorsat and that supports Diseqc and HD?
We are thinking of getting a Humax Foxsat HD-R for the other room to receive Freesat and Saorsat.

watty

For TNTSAT HD I read
"Sagem & Strong are the only current suppliers of compatible set-top boxes" Any CAMs that work seem to be unsupported and often "knocked out" (because of card sharing). Some seem to suggest a Viaccess 3 CAM works. Such a CAM may not work in any box.

Only Freesat HD boxes work "properly" with Freesat HD, and some don't do Diseqc at all. The Foxsat does do Diseqc. Any DVB-S2 HD receiver will manually tune all the Freesat and Saorsat channels.

The Foxsat HDR makes no mention in spec leaflet of a CI, but reviews claim it can take a CAM. If the Viaccess 3 CAM does work for TNT SAT card and the CAM does work in Foxsat HDR, then if can do Freesat, Saorsat and TNT-SAT. But it may only have now & next EPG data for Saorsat and TNT-SAT. Depends on many things.

I know nothing about the Strong and Sagem Receivers that are official for TNT-SAT. You'd need to look up spec and see does any of them do Diseqc. If not, then 19.2E needs to be 1st four inputs on Multiswitch (which is OK for Humax on 28.2, but not a Sky box).

If there is an "Official" TNT-SAT HD box that does Diseqc, then BBC, ITV, RTE etc at worst can be manually added and may only have now&next on EPG.

carolireland

Hi. Many thanks Watty.
Have checked the spec for Sagem TNTSAT receiver. It does not support Diseqc and the Humax does not take TNT card.
Was wondering would it be better to have two receiver boxes, the Humax Foxsat to receive Freesat and Saorsat and the Sagem French receiver to receive TNTSAT?
Humax box seems to have a very good reputation for picture quality from reviews I have read. whereas the Sagem does not seem to offer the same quality.
Many thanks again.

watty

Sagem isn't good
What about the Strong for TNT-Sat?

STB

The VU+ Duo will do all this. One Box. One remote.

Irish DTT, Freesat and TNTSat.

You will need to buy the USB dongle for DTT.

I presume you have a TNTSat card.

Do not believe anyone who tells you that you have to buy a tntsat box to view tntsat.

Have a look in the foreign satellite section - there is a big thread on it.

Warning its a linux box so will take a small bit of setting up.

watty

Also look at what Fransat card is. Same service. but perhaps different Satellite.

Is the VU+ Duo "safe" for TNTSAT card? No risk of CAM blocking as per NDS/Sky risks outside Sky box?

What sort of EPG support is VU+ Duo?

OT somewhat, so replies on new thread I started
What are pros and cons of VU+ Duo for FTA only TV of 28E(Freesat, not Sky), 19E, 13E and 9E (Saorsat, not Ku) vs Humax Foxsat "Freesat+ HD" HDR?
for (a) Anyone that has no Linux experience
and (b) Me. I can cross compile Kernels and write Device Drivers and Applications on Embedded Linux. Experience ARM, MIPS, x86

No DTT required.

I'm not wanting to promote or dis either. Just curious. Also need new HD dual tuner PVR for living room. I have "everything" on PC (three actually), not living room friendly.

rlogue

I would not recommend Strong as the picture quality on the SD box is appalling. However the Strong TNTSAT box I bought came with a separate card and this now sits in one of my Dreambox card readers, giving me TF1 HD, France 2HD, Arte HD, and M6 HD without the need to buy a HD box.

rlogue

Fransat is 5w. I suspect the Vu box will have similar issues to the Dreambox, as TNTSAT cards were disabled on Dreamboxes for several weeks as Canal + changed the AES keys back in September. This has just been put right by the latest release of Hypercam but if the AES key changes again there might another delay. Another option worth considering is the Bis card. Bis are available on 13E and 5W and will have HD available at no extra charge in the new year. They aren't box specific and unlike TNTSAT they haven't messed about with forcing viewers to specific boxes.

STB

watty wrote: »

Also look at what Fransat card is. Same service. but perhaps different Satellite.

Is the VU+ Duo "safe" for TNTSAT card? No risk of CAM blocking as per NDS/Sky risks outside Sky box?

What sort of EPG support is VU+ Duo?

OT somewhat, so replies on new thread I started
What are pros and cons of VU+ Duo for FTA only TV of 28E(Freesat, not Sky), 19E, 13E and 9E (Saorsat, not Ku) vs Humax Foxsat "Freesat+ HD" HDR?
for (a) Anyone that has no Linux experience
and (b) Me. I can cross compile Kernels and write Device Drivers and Applications on Embedded Linux. Experience ARM, MIPS, x86

No DTT required.

I'm not wanting to promote or dis either. Just curious. Also need new HD dual tuner PVR for living room. I have "everything" on PC (three actually), not living room friendly.

The French actually have a new box coming out in February that supports TNTSat. Its a Humax, think its called the 5050. Dont know if its tied down to TNTsat only - other boxes have been. Humax community will have it ripped to shreds with unofficial firmware.

This VU+ Duo box has really taken a huge chunk of Dreambox sales who will be forced to lower their price. The VU Duo is fast becoming more than just an enthusiasts box. People ARE actually writing apps for it. It must be one of the best supported boxes to come out in years. First off 2 dvb-s2 tuners. Its running Enigma II. They have a freesat 7 day epg plugin OTA. A TNTSat 7 day epg plugin. It supports the TNTSat card which has been a problem for many boxes because the cards have been tied down to proprietary boxes and Viacess Cams havent been working. They were working for a short time on the CTech 5000 HD Plus.

It also supports some USB DTT DVB-T tuners which means a third tuner. Full PVR as a result.

I havent actually got one. I have just read so much on them that I wondering what it doesnt do!

Again yeah it Linux, but once its set up, thats it. There is a long thread in foreign satellite about the box and a specific forum by the manufacturer which is very support focussed. €387 delivered to Ireland.

watty

€387 is tad steep though.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

€387 is tad steep though.

A Humax Foxstat HDR is about €300 + delivery and it does not handle DVB-T.

So it's in the ballpark.

watty

VU+ Duo
You need to add €60 to €140 to the €387 = €440 to €520 approx with 1 TByte drive depending on type / model of drive and P&P.

If you have Saorsat, then DVB-T may be irrelevant.

STB

I know its dear but the OP wants TNTSAT as well.

I dont know many non linux boxes that handle those french FTA cards other than proprietary boxes.

Might be best to hold out for the Humax TN5050 HDR Canal Ready out in Feb. It has a 500g hard drive and is around the same price as the VU+ Duo. It doesnt do DTT or Freesat EPG though. But will pick up the British and French Satellite stations.

watty

Support for the cards seems to be not Guaranteed when it does work on unapproved CAM/box.

This is one reason I'm opposed to FTV card for Irish Satellite.

dhaumi

Hey everyone,

Just a quick post to say. I've been using TNTSAT from Galway for a year now.
I can only speak from my own experience.
I've got:
- ASTON Simba HD TNTSAT
- Triax 78cm dish
- HUMAX HDR Freesat
- 2 LNBs mounted a Triax arm

The bad:
- The Aston is painfully slow at zapping channels
- It's got only 1 tuner
- The 78 cm dish is just about enough in bad conditions, but I reckon I lose a lot of the beam with the offset on the Triax arm.
- There is ONLY a Now and Next EPG on French Satellite TV!!! So far, only Canal Plus uses boxes with an ethernet port to get a full EPG from the internet...
- No dimmer on display even on standby, the box seems to have a poor/high standby consumption...
- The tuner is VERY sensitive, I read people in France could hardly get over 75% of signal, I get around 60-65%, below that HD channels are lagging
- Expensive like any other TNTSAT stb in my opinion although it's cheaper now than it used to be

The Good:
- HD and SD pics are splendid, SD is probably better than the Humax
- I can plug in a USB Hard drive and record stuff
- I can program recordings the old fashion way (Time, date, channel...)
- One can subscribe to Canal Plus and watch at least 3 EPL games every week end, if one understands/can bear the french commentaries
- One of the best way to get french TV
- Some channels M6, TF1, Canal Plus, Arte shows movies in both french and english (Into the Wild tonight on M6 for example).

Comparing a perfectly designed Humax box for a really good Satellite service that is Freesat, along side with a not so bad Aston Simba for a really average satellite service that is TNTSAT/Fransat, is not a good idea :-D
Since you cannot do much about Canal Plus monopoly over french TV, I would advise to wait and read review about that forthcoming Humax. The TN5000 got excellent reviews.

With their experience and knowledge, they might bring something good to the TNTSAT platform.