Advice on getting someone sectioned

LegacyUser

Hi,

Don't want to go into too much detail but my brother-in-law requires mental health assistance but is refusing to take his medication or see any doctors. It's getting very bad and we all agree that something needs to be done - we think he needs to be admitted to a hospital against his will to get help.

His mother is reluctant to do this for obvious reasons. Meanwhile he is living in her house and destroying it, bullying her and sinking lower and lower into a bad mental state. Any ideas on what we can do or say to help his mother to deal with the situation - specifically how we can help her see that sectioning him is the best solution?

Have never dealt with anything like this before and don't know much about it. What I do know is that my mother in law is exhausted and fed up and angry and wrecked all the time and it cannot continue. For the record, the brother is in his late twenties and lives at home with just his mum.

christina_x

needsomeadvice wrote: »

Hi,

Don't want to go into too much detail but my brother-in-law requires mental health assistance but is refusing to take his medication or see any doctors. It's getting very bad and we all agree that something needs to be done - we think he needs to be admitted to a hospital against his will to get help.

His mother is reluctant to do this for obvious reasons. Meanwhile he is living in her house and destroying it, bullying her and sinking lower and lower into a bad mental state. Any ideas on what we can do or say to help his mother to deal with the situation - specifically how we can help her see that sectioning him is the best solution?

Have never dealt with anything like this before and don't know much about it. What I do know is that my mother in law is exhausted and fed up and angry and wrecked all the time and it cannot continue. For the record, the brother is in his late twenties and lives at home with just his mum.

OK, well he can possibly be admitted involuntarily. There are a few steps set out under the mental health act 2001 for this to happen (in order to assess he needs admission)

1)Your first step would be go to your GP and have a talk with him/her about the situation and explain you feel its in his best interests to go to the hospital (this is your application)

2) The doctor then has to examine him. I know you said he wont go to the doctor, but maybe the doctor will go to him at home? If they feel that he meets the conditions for an involuntary admission he makes a recommendation

3) If he needs to be admitted a consultant psychiatrist will assess him in the hospital and if they agree with the GP that it is the best interest for your brother in law to remain in the hospital involuntarily then they will sign an admission order.

heres a link to the act. It will give you any information you need http://www.mhcirl.ie/Mental_Health_Act_2001/Mental_Health_Act_2001.pdf

Hope you get things sorted and your brother-in-law gets well soon

sam34

a family member can make an application to have him assessed

the GP will have the relevant forms for this, so talk to the gp as a starting point

once an application is made, the gp has to see him within 24 hours - if he wont go to gp, then the gp has to go to him... thats a legal requirement, so the go cant refuse

after assessing him, the gp might think he needs psychiatric assessment, in which case the gp fills out another form and arranges assessment, or he may think he doesnt need it, depending on the situation.

if the gp sends him to the psych unit, he then will be seen by a consultant psychiatrist within 24 hours. it is up to them whether they believe he meets the criteria for detention under the mental health act or not. it would be important that a family member is there at that point to provide background information.

as this mans mother is a bit reluctant about the whole thing, probably the best initial starting point would be if someone else in teh family went to the gp with her and discussed things.

LegacyUser

OP here. Sorry should have been more clear in my first post. Two GPs have been out to the house to assess my brother in law but he refuses to see either of them. He won't take his medication and he is having hallucinations and being a horrible person to his mother.

My question is how I can convince his mother (my mother in law) to get him sectioned. I think there is a touch of pride about it for her - i.e. what will the neighbours think - but my brother in law needs help and is refusing it. He needs to be committed but this is a decison only his mother can make.

What can I say to her to make her see he needs to be committed?

sam34

is he already under the care of a psych team as an out-patient? if so, ask their community nurse to speak with her.

its not actually just up to the mother either... any first degree relative who is over 18 can make the application, altho it may cause some friction if going against teh mothers wishes

Billiejo

You cant force a person to seek / take medical attention if they refuse.
If the person is violent and causing a rompus you could call the Guards (anon) if necessary.
If the person is a diagnoised mental health patient on prescribed medication they will / should have Mental Health Services involved with diagnosis / records and background history including risk assessment.

In the interest of safety and prevention it's kinder to contact MH service explain situation, ask for a CPN visit. This happens frequently and this way the proper outcome will result. Explain the delicate family situation and ask to omit your name from the referral.
CPNs do home visits all the time. Can be classed as routine follow up, is the expert judge to assess the risk of staying put at home or not.
The CPN (any registered nure for that matter) has the authority to section a client for up to 6 hours (if necessary) until help arrives to take client away (if necessary).

metrovelvet

You can if you do it under the umbrella of suspected elder abuse. It works the same as child abuse. The HSE have to investigate it and they will get a team together to do it but it depends on how old your MIL is to see if this fits the bill.

sam34

Billiejo wrote: »

The CPN (any registered nure for that matter) has the authority to section a client for up to 6 hours (if necessary) until help arrives to take client away (if necessary).

not in this country.

kiwijbob

Hi, I thought that it was now the case that someone couldn't be sectioned
by their family and the GP? A good friend of my is currently suffering from
extreme delusions and has been for the last 3 months (it's getting worse),
his family have talked to the GP and he is aware of the situation but says
that the law was changed on having someone sectioned against their will.
I just had a chat with my friend today, can't bring myself to tell him that
he's delusional for fear of alienating him even further that he has already
from everybody else .... his family are at the end of their wits and don't
have a clue what to do. I'm going to read the relevant section of the
MENTAL HEALTH ACT, 2001 section 8 Involuntary admission of persons
to approved centres. Any other advice is appreciated, his family do fear
him & for him. thanks

sam34

kiwijbob wrote: »

Hi, I thought that it was now the case that someone couldn't be sectioned
by their family and the GP? A good friend of my is currently suffering from
extreme delusions and has been for the last 3 months (it's getting worse),
his family have talked to the GP and he is aware of the situation but says
that the law was changed on having someone sectioned against their will.
I just had a chat with my friend today, can't bring myself to tell him that
he's delusional for fear of alienating him even further that he has already
from everybody else .... his family are at the end of their wits and don't
have a clue what to do. I'm going to read the relevant section of the
MENTAL HEALTH ACT, 2001 section 8 Involuntary admission of persons
to approved centres. Any other advice is appreciated, his family do fear
him & for him. thanks

a family member can make an application to have him assessed by a gp

the gp then sees him, and if he feels he needs psych assessment, he makes a recommendation

then, once he is brought to a psych unit, he wll be seen by a consultant psychiatrist within 24 hours, and if he fits the criteria for detention, then he will be kept. if he doesnt meet the criteria, and doesnt want to stay voluntarily, he will have to be alloweed leave. having a GP recommendation is not a guarantee that he will be kept

amber2

sam34 wrote: »

a family member can make an application to have him assessed by a gp

the gp then sees him, and if he feels he needs psych assessment, he makes a recommendation

then, once he is brought to a psych unit, he wll be seen by a consultant psychiatrist within 24 hours, and if he fits the criteria for detention, then he will be kept. if he doesnt meet the criteria, and doesnt want to stay voluntarily, he will have to be alloweed leave. having a GP recommendation is not a guarantee that he will be kept

Sorry to resurrecting an old thread but looking for some advice have a family member whom attempted suicide last night. Called a doctor on call who wrote a letter referring him to a mental health hospital, he was seen today by the doctor on duty in that hospital has assessed him and said he is free to leave at any time and at present he is there voluntarily. His GP has also been in contact with the hospital to express that he is a danger to himself and to ensure he is kept. The assessing Doc in the hospital more or less told his GP that he was terminating the call because he had made his assessment and he deemed the patient fit for release even though he had been found hanging less than 24 hours earlier. He had been in the same hospital less than two weeks ago again at the familys request and he was released 3 days later against the familys wishes. Am finding what Sam34 has said is exactly what is happening and unsure of were to turn now. There is an addiction issue also but no clinics private or otherwise are willing to take him unless he is willing to enter into treatment himself which he is not and also he needs to detox first. Advice would be much appreciated.

sam34

without knowing the exact details its hard to advise.

the gp and family cannot on their own get someone detained in hospital, all they can do is ensure they have a psych assessment. then it depends on whether or not they meet the criteria for detention.

as harsh as it seems, not everyone who is suicidal would meet the criteria - eg it has to be due to a mental illness. so, if someone was suicidal because of something like a relationship breakup (not saying thats the case, just giving an example) then they cant be detained against their will.

with respect to the addiction, people cannot be sectioned/certified for treatment of addiction. its just not possible under the law. and its common that addiction centres will only take people who want to get treatment, the familys motivation is not enough, the person themselves has to be willing to get treatment.

from reading your post it seems this person is now in hospital on a voluntary basis? what i'd suggest is that you or someone else in family ring and talk to the treating team and express your concerns and ask about the previous admission and discharge.

best wishes.

LegacyUser

My boyfriend of 15months is showing signs of delusions. His paranoia is mostly aimed at me. He's a history as a child of hearing voices telling him to Kill his mother. He's doing night shifts the last year and suffered allot of insomnia. He's always a bit eccentric. But two weeks ago found drugs in work and took some. He hasn't been normal since lost allot of weight, puples always dilated. Talks non stop. Paranoid I'm cheating. Watches my Evey mood.. needy and telling me I don't love him... needs constant reassurance.. it's never enough.
Now he's convinced I'm taking drugs and hiding it because he finds crystal type substance around the house and car even thinks they were in my tobacco. He got a drug kit and I passed but is still manic I'm lieing. He says he seen crystals on my nose and lips. I'm at my wits end. He has my 12yr Old son he's just worried about me. I'm worn out. I don't know what to do. He told my brother I'm on drugs and he seen us both and believes my boyfriend if off his nut. I don't want to tell his family but no idea how to deal with him anymore.

Emme

It sounds like a domestic violence situation if he's breaking up the house. His mother may not want to do anything about it but she will be forced to if he beats her up badly enough. If he can't be sectioned involuntarily and he's violent then you'll have to use the domestic abuse/elder abuse angle.

irishgirl19

Contact womens aid and try get out to a safe place when it's safe to do so. Have someone with you when you leave.

Merkin

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