Murder of Father Griffin

Barna

90 years ago this week. Patrick Joyce, suspected informer, murdered the week before. Seems to have been more than just political enmity between O Droighneain the Furbo schoolteacher and Joyce the Barna schoolteacher. A fascinating but deadly triangle which resulted in the death of 2 of the 3. Anyone got any local information on these events. I have read the O'Laoi and o fathairte books.

Barna

I would also be intersted in any information on the following who were involved in the Trial of Joyce - Morgan Davoren, Tim Kyne, John Geogheghan

Morlar

I am not even going to pretend to know what the hell you are talking about and I am not going to go looking it up due to the way your post was put together.

Pleas add some context - this could be a familiar event if you just remind people the where what when etc and put it all in a more coherent manner. Talking shorthand & assuming that every one else knows whats knocking around inside your head is not very constructive in my opinion.

Barna

http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-new...-of-fr-griffin/

It is now 90 years since the murder of Fr Michael Griffin, a night still remembered in Galway. The story has been passed down through generations and even now carries an air of mystery. It was a dangerous time in Galway, with Black and Tans and Auxiliaries controlling the streets. At that time, Fr Griffin was the curate of Rahoon parish and lived in the presbytery in Mountpelier Terrace.

On the night of 8 September 1920, he was called out to attend Seamus Quirke, a First-Lieutenant in the local IRA after he was shot seven times at the docks.

He also concelebrated the funeral mass of Michael Walsh of the Old Malt House following his murder by Black and Tans on the night of 22 September 1920. People were extremely worried about the terror roaming the streets, but nothing could have prepared them for the atrocity that was about to take place.

About midnight on Sunday 14 November 1920, Fr Griffin was lured from the presbytery by British forces directly, or someone aiding them. He was taken to Lenaboy Castle where he was questioned. After being interrogated, he was shot through the head and his body was taken away by lorry and buried in an unmarked grave at Cloghscoltia near Barna.

There was much speculation and rumours about his disappearance over the following days. Then, on Saturday 20 November 1920, his remains were discovered by a local man, William Duffy while he was attending cattle. On 23 November, about 12,000 people gathered at St Joseph’s Church on Presentation Road, for his funeral mass.

During the funeral procession through the streets of Galway, a young woman named Katie Larkin shouted abuse and waved a Tricolour at the Black and Tans who had lined up at certain sections of the route. One of them became annoyed at her and shouted, ‘Shut up, you bitch, it was your own that did it.’ This would certainly give credence to the story that Fr Griffin was lured from his residence by someone speaking Irish. The burial of Fr Griffin took place the following day in the grounds of Loughrea Cathedral.

Although people were getting used to hearing of shootings, the murder of a priest shocked the entire town. Again, there was much speculation regarding the killing, but it was believed to have been in reprisal for the kidnapping and execution of an ‘informer’ named Patrick Joyce.

Joyce was the Principal in Barna National School and was convicted of spying on the evidence of five letters, which he was alleged to have written to the authorities regarding volunteer activities in the area. The IRA suspected that someone was giving information to the Black and Tans and so they employed some of their men working in the post office to intercept letters addressed to the British authorities. The plan worked and the republicans soon built up the evidence they required before taking action. The letters implicated a number of local people, including Fr Griffin, who was named in one of the letters to the police. The following is an extract from the letter explaining one of the reasons why young men were joining the republicans.

‘…these men who joined the Volunteers did so because they were being encouraged by Curates Griffin and O’Meehan who kept telling them that men should never be afraid or scared, that it was only women and children who suffered fear.’

There has always been much speculation as to who actually murdered Fr Griffin. Three people were named in a recent book, ‘All in The Blood, A Memoir’ by Geraldine Plunkett Dillon, published in 2006.

According to this source, it was a terrible night of wind and rain when a ‘raid’ took place at the home of the Kennedy family in Salthill. Three armed men dressed in civilian clothes entered the house demanding to know the whereabouts of the ‘Professor’. They were looking for Thomas O Maille who was known as the Professor, but he was not there at the time.

During the raid, the men called each other by their names, Barker, Smith and Ward, and mentioned that they had a ‘terrible job’ to do later on that night. After a time, the three of them left the house and made their way back in the direction of the town. A neighbour who lived across the road from Kennedy’s house watched these events unfolding and said that sometime later a military lorry passed at great speed and it contained ‘…the body of Fr Griffin and the three men, Barker, Smith and Ward, were his murders.’ This witness also said that it was a Galway RIC Constable who lured Fr Griffin out of the house that night.

In November 1922, a monument was erected at Cloghscoltia on the spot where his body was found, and a wreath laying ceremony takes place there annually. These wreaths are the work of Tom Joe Furey of Meadow Grove, a service he has provided for many years.

In 1937, a road was named in Fr Griffin’s memory. The following is an account of the first anniversary commemoration held for Fr Griffin. It was discovered by Jacqueline O’Brien during research for a book on this period. This report was published in The Connacht Tribune on 19 November 1921, and portrays the genuine esteem in which the young priest was held by the people of Galway.

‘A Year Ago – Grim and Ghastly Deed now a Hallowed Memory – Young Priest Murdered – Galway’s Silent and Solemn Tribute to the Late Father Griffin.

‘Remarkable scenes were witnessed at Galway on Wednesday when the anniversary High Mass for the repose of the soul of the late Rev. Michael J. Griffin, C.C., was celebrated at St Joseph’s Church, to which Fr Griffin had been attached up to the time he was taken from his residence at midnight a week before his dead body was found buried in a grave two feet deep, a few miles from Barna village. On Tuesday evening an order was given that all shops and business houses were to be closed, and the day was observed as a general holiday. Long before the hour for the opening of the Office for the Dead, the road leading to St Joseph’s Church was packed with people. Some 1,500 were unable to gain admission to the church. Many of these went to the Abbey Church, where prayers were said for Fr Griffin, but the greater number knelt on the steps of St Joseph’s and along the footpaths and road outside, whilst the rosary was continuously recited in Irish and English from the steps of the church by Fr Mansfield, OSA, and Fr O’Reilly, STL.

‘Inside the church itself every seat was occupied, whilst over 60 priests took part in the office and Mass. The general congregation included a number of staff officers of the IRA, amongst them Commandant Owen O’Duffy, deputy chief of staff, Commandant O’Droighnean, Vice-Commandant Davoren, Adjutant Walsh, East Connemara Brigade. Staff officers also attended from the South Mayo Brigade IRA, as well as from the South East Ridings of the county. Mrs Griffin, Gurteen (mother), Misses Ciss and Annie Griffin (sisters), and Mr Lawrence and Mr Patrick Griffin (brothers), were accommodated with seats near the altar rails, whilst Mr Joseph Kyne, Clonbur (uncle) and Messrs Patk James and M. Kyne, Clonbur (cousins), Mrs Lohan and family, Menlo, Mrs Forde, Ballymacward (aunt), Mtn. Walsh, Attymon, Mtn. Finnerty, Co.C., Patk. Raftery, Gurteen, James Hynes, Patk Cormican, Nicholas Finn, Gurteen, and other distant relatives attended.

‘Most Rev. Dr O’Dea, Lord Bishop, presided at the High Mass, of which Very Rev. Peter Canon Davis, Adm., was celebrant; Rev. Andrew Sexton, B.A., St. Mary’s, deacon; Rev. P. J. Durkin, C.C., Craughwell, sub-deacon; Very Rev. Dr Sheedy, C.C., Castlegar, master of ceremonies. The assistants at the throne were Very Rev. Canon McHugh, Castlegar, and Very Rev. Canon Griffin, Oranmore. Rev. James O’Dea, D.S., was master of ceremonies at the throne. Priests attended from County Clare, and the most distant parts of the united dioceses, and many of Fr Griffin’s colleagues came from Clonfert to assist at the High Mass.

Rev. J. W. O’Meehan, B.D., now of Kilbeacanty, Gort, who was Fr Griffin’s colleague in the curacy of Rahoon at the time of the murder, was a notable figure amongst the chanters. All the shops and business houses kept closed throughout the entire day, and the theatres were not open at nig

Simarillion

Not a whole lot of information known even locally I think.

Most of what the locals knew was rumour, and the Auxiliaries and Black & Tans certainly didn't release any reports.

I know he lived on Sea Rd, as there is a brass plaque in the footpath at the base of the steps to the front door.
I know that one of the reasons he was shot was in retaliation for the murder of poor Frank Shawe Taylor at Coshla. The army HQ in Galway decided that someone should be made an example of, and I suppose Griffin was the perfect target as a recruiter for the IRA and a public figure.
That being said, it was very strange for the British Army, to target members of the clergy as it drew mass condemnation on all sides for obvious reasons. So possibly it was committed by soldiers without official authority.
Certainly the idea that the RIC had anything to do with it is unlikely. County Inspector Sydley who was in charge of the RIC in Galway, was apprently horrified by it,

Nevertheless, he was brought to Lenaboy and shot there, one story says on the front lawn, however, the nuns in the Dominican convent on Taylors Hill, claimed that the bullet(s) fired at Fr. Griffin shattered a window in the convent. This is almost impossible given the distance the convent is from the castle and the high walls surrounding it.

http://places.galwaylibrary.ie/history/chapter111.html

CDfm

Here is an article from the Galway Advertiser in 2000 and it mentions the discovery of Patrick Joyces body after 78 years in a bog.

http://archive.advertiser.ie/pages/view.php?ref=55198&search=!collection1554&order_by=field51&sort=ASC&offset=0&archive=0&k=

It also has an article including a statement from his grandaughter and biographical details on Joyce.

http://archive.advertiser.ie/pages/preview.php?ref=55250&ext=jpg&k=&search=!collection1554&offset=0&order_by=field51&sort=ASC&archive=0

Barna

Thanks Cd and simarillion. I got some witness statements from BMH which are also interesting.

CDfm

Barna wrote: »

Thanks Cd and simarillion. I got some witness statements from BMH which are also interesting.

Hey -witness statements - can you post them and do they show up anything interesting.

Barna

I have a pdf of witness statement - not sure how to post it here

CDfm

Barna wrote: »

I have a pdf of witness statement - not sure how to post it here

thats technical :eek:

i had a lot of the same probs on my John Jinks thread and I either posted the links and some files allowed me to copy.

Galway is great for murders:D

Barna

CDfm wrote: »

thats technical :eek:

i had a lot of the same probs on my John Jinks thread and I either posted the links and some files allowed me to copy.

Galway is great for murders:D

I have a copy of the witness statement that micheal o droighneain made - it's in PDF format though so can't just cut and paste the text. Talks about the trial and execution of Joyce based on letters Joyce allegedly wrote to the British authorities naming members of the East Connemara Brigade. The letters have not been found although there are several reasonably well correlated accounts as to their contents.

There was clearly also some professional rivalry between O Droighneain and Joyce - the were headmasters of the national schools in the neighbhouring villages of Furbo and Barna respectively. Both were active in the INTO and

CDfm

Barna wrote: »

Both were active in the INTO and

One wonders if rivalry got that high. .

This really is the Galway cold case.

CDfm

Having a quick look at this there is mention that this was one of a series of events surrounding the murder of a land agent and grazier Frank Shawe-Taylor .

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Frank_Shawe-Taylor

Other people who subsequently died as a result of the unrest in Galway included Ellen Quinn (1 November 1920), a pregnant mother of six and a tenant of Lady Gregory; Fr. Michael Griffin (14 November 1920); Tom Egan (murder victim) and the brothers Patrick and Harry Loughnane. In addition, there were numerous incidents of violence, many of which were recorded with horror by Lady Gregory in her journal, who remarked that "the country has gone wild since the killing of Frank Shawe-Taylor."
Local republican Bill Freaney at one point planned to burn Moorpark House in revenge for the murder of Tom Egan (Galway) (which itself was thought to be a reprisal for Shawe-Taylor's killing), but was dissuaded by Mrs. Egan. Freaney himself was burned to death in Athenry in 1921.
No one was ever tried for the murder, though the names of the killers were known to some locals at the time. His widow eventually sold their property, and with her young children moved to England.

CDfm

Barna wrote: »

I have a copy of the witness statement that micheal o droighneain made - it's in PDF format though so can't just cut and paste the text. Talks about the trial and execution of Joyce based on letters Joyce allegedly wrote to the British authorities naming members of the East Connemara Brigade. The letters have not been found although there are several reasonably well correlated accounts as to their contents.

There was clearly also some professional rivalry between O Droighneain and Joyce - the were headmasters of the national schools in the neighbhouring villages of Furbo and Barna respectively. Both were active in the INTO and

I saw O Droighneain mentioned on a Dept of Defense listing as a Captain in the IRA during independence and he also was interned in Frongoch.

http://www.military.ie/dfhq/archives/documents/The%20Bureau%20of%20Military%20History1913-1921%20Index%20to%20Contributors.pdf

Barna

Good account as Gaeilge here

http://www.warofindependence.net/?page_id=381

Fuinseog

Simarillion wrote: »

Not a whole lot of information known even locally I think.

Most of what the locals knew was rumour, and the Auxiliaries and Black & Tans certainly didn't release any reports.

I know he lived on Sea Rd, as there is a brass plaque in the footpath at the base of the steps to the front door.
I know that one of the reasons he was shot was in retaliation for the murder of poor Frank Shawe Taylor at Coshla. The army HQ in Galway decided that someone should be made an example of, and I suppose Griffin was the perfect target as a recruiter for the IRA and a public figure.
That being said, it was very strange for the British Army, to target members of the clergy as it drew mass condemnation on all sides for obvious reasons. So possibly it was committed by soldiers without official authority.
Certainly the idea that the RIC had anything to do with it is unlikely. County Inspector Sydley who was in charge of the RIC in Galway, was apprently horrified by it,

Nevertheless, he was brought to Lenaboy and shot there, one story says on the front lawn, however, the nuns in the Dominican convent on Taylors Hill, claimed that the bullet(s) fired at Fr. Griffin shattered a window in the convent. This is almost impossible given the distance the convent is from the castle and the high walls surrounding it.

http://places.galwaylibrary.ie/history/chapter111.html

there is also a monument at the spot where his body was found out in Bearna.

about ten years ago a body was found in the bog going back to this period, but am not sure if it was directly connected to to this event

Barna

Thanks. Yes the body found about 10 years ago was that of Patrick Joyce NT Barna executed by East Connemara Brigade IRA as a spy. This happened about a week before Fr Griffin was killed - some believe that Fr Griffin was killed because Tans suspected he gave last rites to Joyce - although it it seems pretty certain he did not based on witness statements.

CDfm

So who killed him , the Republicans or the Black & Tans. ???

Barna

CDfm wrote: »

So who killed him , the Republicans or the Black & Tans. ???

It seems almost certain that the tans based out of Lenaboy in Salthill killed Father Griffin. With regard to Joyce, the Barna schoolteacher, it is 100% certain that he was killed by the IRA (based on witness statements from local IRA including OC Micheal O Droighneain (Thornton)).

What is less certain is motive. You could think of Barna-Furbo in those days as essentially a mini-parish with two schools. Joyce was the Maistir in Barna, O Droighneain in Furbo and Griffin was essentially the Parish Priest of this mini Parish. The ostensible reasons for the killing of two of the three were to do with National Politics and the war of independence. However, I have always thought that there was a certain amount of local rivalry and score settling involved.

These were the three most powerful men in Barna-Furbo. O Droighneain was OC of the East Connemara Brigade. The only person killed (as far as I can see) by this brigade in the whole Tan war was Joyce. In fact the only other activity I can find is a botched attack on Spiddal RIC barracks.

CDfm

It does look like score settling of some kind or other.

The Tans seemed to have denied it -which seems unusual to me.

Whichever, no one would have wanted to be connected with it whatsoever.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Barna wrote: »

O Droighneain was OC of the East Connemara Brigade. The only person killed (as far as I can see) by this brigade in the whole Tan war was Joyce. In fact the only other activity I can find is a botched attack on Spiddal RIC barracks.

I've heard of the West Connemara Brigade before and they seem to have taken part in a few ambushes... East Connemara must have been severely inactive in comparison.

Barna

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Lieut.-Colonel Sir Hamar Greenwood) I only received the hon. Member's question last night and I wired to Ireland myself. I shall read the exact telegram I have received in reply. The following is full text of report, dated 16th instant, which I have received from the District Inspector, Galway, concerning the Reverend Michael Griffin: 'I beg to report that the Reverend Michael Griffin, C.C., 35 years, St. Joseph's Church, residing at Lower Salthill, Galway, left his residence at 12 midnight Sunday night, 14th instant, apparently to attend a sick call. He has not since returned and it is now believed that he has been kidnapped by some persons unknown. Reverend Father O'Meehan and a housekeeper were in the house at the time, and the former did not hear anything, but the housekeeper heard Father Griffin speak through the top window, saying, "Alright, I am coming down in a few minutes." The presumption is that the person addressed came on a sick call. Reverend Father Davis, P.P., reported the matter to the police on Monday. On further inquiry it was decided to await further developments, but as the Reverend Gentleman has not returned to-day, the worst fears are now entertained that he has been kidnapped. Father Griffin was an extreme Sinn Feiner, and he and P. W. Joyce, National Teacher, kidnapped on the 15th ultimo, were rival protagonists. Joyce had a number of friends who are determined to avenge his taking. Again, the Reverend Father Griffin appears to have delivered strong language in Barna Chapel on 14th instant, when he told his congregation that some among them were as bad as the "Black and Tans." Reverend Father Davis states that it is the firm belief of the general public that the kidnapping was done by the armed forces of the Crown. Inquiries are proceeding. There are no clues so far.' I have read the hon. Member all the information I have on the subject, and if he will ask me a question on Monday I will give him any further information that I have with regard to this case.

Barna

Interesting mention of o Droighneain in the lead up to the treaty debate. Seems he was pretty senior IRB. Tom mentioned below is Tom Maguire who led the Tourmakeady ambush.

"Tom went to Dublin on December 13 for the Dáil debate on the Treaty (or the Surrender as he saw it, both political and military). He was met in the hallway of his hotel, the Exchange in Parliament Street, by his senior in the IRB, Mícheál Ó Droighneáin, as na Forbacha, who was attached to the East Connemara Brigade. His message was that senior officers in the IRB supported the Treaty. It is presumed that all Deputies who were IRB members were similarly pressured.

"If there was a significant pressure within the Movement there were powerful forces acting outside it also. There was no radio or television then but the press was unanimously, relentlessly and ruthlessly pro-Surrender. Of all the dailies, evening papers and local weeklies, one and only one - The Connaughtman published in Sligo - was for the Republic.

"The Catholic Hierarchy supported Lloyd George's ultimatum with vigour. Tom tells how his parish priest Canon Hennelly wrote to him: "If you cannot see your way to vote for it you should at least abstain". Dean Dalton of Ballinrobe ordered him to vote for the Treaty. That was offensive, in Tom's opinion, and he did not reply. Even the Chinese Mission at Dalgan Park near Shrule, Co. Mayo wrote. Tom replied to these setting out his reasons clearly. Canon Hennelly answered saying his Archbishop had asked him "to use all my influence".

"'The pressure was strong and concerted on every TD and those who returned home over Christmas were the most exposed. It has been said with truth that if the vote had been taken before Christmas it would not have been carried.' Tom had a bad bout of influenza and stayed in Dublin. He tells how after the holiday Dean Dalton and the parish priest of Kilmaine wished to see him at the Gresham Hotel. In high good humour they ordered champagne. Tom had a brown ginger.

"He spoke just two words in the debate at Earlsfort Terrace. "Ní toil". (I do not agree). When the vote was taken on January 7, one other Deputy said to him, "If I had known that you were going to vote against it, I would have voted against it too." This showed how casually, in Tom's opinion, it was approved with a majority of only seven, 64 to 57.

"Both Ernie O'Malley and Brian O'Higgins say only three supported it on its merits. The remaining 61 did so as the only alternative to war or as "a stepping-stone to the Republic". De Valera and his Cabinet resigned and when Griffith succeeded him two days later it was by two votes only, 60 to 58."

(From Dílseacht: The story of Comdt. General TOM MAGUIRE and the Second (All-Ireland) Dáil (Irish Freedom Press) by Ruairí Ó Brádaigh, pp.12-13)

cormacocomhrai

Hi all,
I`d know as much about the events in question as just about anyone. The poster Barna referred to an article I wrote in Irish that`s available online.
Anyway this is the story in a nutshell:
On 15 October Patrick Joyce a Catholic school teacher was taken from his house in Knocknacarra, tried and shot as an informer by the IRA. His body was buried. Following these events County Inspector Cruise and members of the RIC carried out what were called "active inquiries" in the area around where the kidnapping took place. This involved beatings, threats and worse. By Cruise`s own reports they got no help from the local population. On 14 November Father Michael Griffin, a local curate, was taken from his house in Sea Road, shot and buried. He was shot by some branch of the Crown Forces in Lenaboy on Taylor`s Hill where a company of the Auxiliaries were stationed. The fact that his body was buried in the same general area as where Joyce was buried might be indicative of an intention to intimdate the local population.
Joyce wasn`t shot lightly or for reasons of a grudge by the local IRA:
1.They sought permission and got it from their HQ for the shooting. Very few informers had been shot at that point anywhere in the country. The bulk of them were shot during 1921.
2. They deliberately shot one person during the whole period including the Civil War. It`s unlikely that they would have chosen a school teacher (middle class, influential etc.) who was involved in charity work locally and who was the uncle(in-law) of a captain in the Volunteers locally.
3.Both the Volunteers and the RIC both thought that Joyce had informed. (The RIC reference is from 1918).
4.In an area with a high level of illiteracy and where the Irish language was still strong it would have narrowed down the list of people who might have given detailed local knowledge. Apparently Joyce also gave information against people because of local spite rather than with regard to accuracy. That would have made the process of narrowing down the search. The school where he worked was broken into and samples of his handwriting stolen to confirm this.
Why was Fr. Griffin selected?
Fr. Ó Laoi felt that it was the British secret service. Writing in the 1990s he felt that a member of the RIC could never shoot a priest. I`d wouldn`t be as quick to dismiss that possibility out of hand. Fr. Griffin, although not the priest who gave Joyce and his killers the last rites, had apparently given the last rites to two men shot, fatally, by Crown Forces in Galway city. Rumours had circulated that at least one of those men had named his killers to Griffin. If true, that information put the killers in danger as there was a strong culture within the IRA of targeting people who had killed republicans. Another aspect has to be pointed out here. Republican priests in Galway were frequently the targets for threats and intimidation.
For the record Joyce maintained to the end that he was innocent.
Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

Barna

Maith thu Cormac. We have corresponded before on this. I think your analysis is likely correct, although its worth considering the following.

1. There certainly was professional rivalry although it may only have been on the Joyce side. O'Laoi felt Joyce felt humiliated by his treatment by Furbo parents (who boycotted the school during the very short period while Joyce was principal). This was before Thornton ever came to Furbo school. I saw the reference in the RIC suspect files where they expressed the view that Joyce might be the author of one of the anonymous letters re Thornton in that file. The reason the constable gives Is that Joyce was after the Furbo school. So it seems clear that the primary motivation on Joyce's side was local, not national.

2. Regarding "permission from HQ". It seems that the answer from Mulcahy was more like " you are in the best position to make an assessment of the handwriting" as opposed to an order to carry out the execution.

3. Yes Joyce was the only person killed by this brigade. What set him apart ? He certainly wasn't the most dangerous risk to the IRA. The RIC had been following Thornton since he came back from training college, even observing him as he travelled to the Oireachtas in Dundalk in 1915. It's hard to believe Thornton didn't know this and know that the intelligence they had on him was a lot deeper than the "drilling in the back lanes of Barna " stuff in the alleged Joyce letters. Why was Joyce shot and not the RIC in Spiddal or the Tans who regularly patrolled the area or someone in retaliation for the murder of John Geoghean.

Hard to figure out now, and I agree your analysis is the most likely but a few open questions still linger.

Go raibh Maith agat.

cormacocomhrai

1. You`re right to consider the professional rivalry. But Joyce was a teacher in Furbo school almost twenty years beforehand. As far as I know Joyce supported Ó Droighneáin (thornton) when there was an effort made to sack him for professional reasons. That said Joyce seems to have been a difficult man to get on with and had a reputation for being petty and spiteful.

2. Regarding Mulcahy. According to one, republican, source Mulcahy told them directly to get rid of Joyce. Joyce, assuming he wrote the letters, tried to detailed descriptions of local activity to the Crown Forces and tried to incite them to raid his neighbours one of whom was involved in some sort of legal dispute with them.

3. The brigade was bascially unarmed. After being given rifles by GHQ the entire brigade still only had 4 lee enfields and one .22 rifle at the time of the Truce. Attacking the RIC was logical but fool hardy. The brigade was basically boxed in by the city, Loch Corrib, the bog and the sea. Very easy to be intimidated in those circumstances which they clearly were.

Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

cormacocomhrai

By the way, a group that does documentaries for TG4 have been in touch with me regarding a documentary on the topic. Whether or not they`ll get the go-ahead, I don`t know.

Barna

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

By the way, a group that does documentaries for TG4 have been in touch with me regarding a documentary on the topic. Whether or not they`ll get the go-ahead, I don`t know.

That would be really interesting. I think the characters involved are fascinating. There are people here in Furbo who remember going to school to o droighneain. Would be Great to get their sense of the man. I did also find some newspaper articles re court cases between Joyce and his neighbours - petty stuff indeed. Other interesting areas to research would be the purchase of Marino House (Teach Furbo) by Thornton ( a mansion previously owned by the Earl of Westmeath purchased by a country schoolteacher 10 years out of college). the INTO archives would be interesting also as both men were active.

cormacocomhrai

Now I have you. I remember you allright and corresponding with you afterwards after meeting you.

Ó D. had a reputation as being a very tough teacher and his wife being more of the gentle type but one story I heard showed an admirable capacity for self-analysis.
I wouldn`t go overboard on the Marino house thing. I don`t know how big it was and what state it was in and don`t forget both Thornton and his wife were both working. She was from a farming background in East Galway and may have been quite well off. Don`t forget he would have had another couple of incomes as well because of his work on behalf of the state. Republicans were very critical of him after the Civil war and I`d imagine that if any untoward had gone on that it would have been alluded to. An uncle of Dad`s for instance ended up with a biggish house after Civil War (Free state) but it was above board. He married well.

I haven`t come across the Joyce court cases and i`d be very interested in seeing them.
Some evening when the weather improves I`ll give you a lift around the home place and give you a few stories you probably haven`t heard.
Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

siobhan62

Hi all,

I am doing a local history project for my History MA on John Geoghegan, I am only sourcing information at the moment but I am finding it tough to locate any information of his direct involvement with the IRA, particularly the East Connemara brigade. I am looking at a thesis at the moment on the West Connemara brigade and it mentions his killing, with a footnote saying that there has been no proof found of his IRA involvement, is that really the case? He has been mentioned in other works that I have looked at and they all refer to him as IRA so surely there has been some evidence other than his actual assassination. The referencing isn't helpful as to where they are getting their information about him. As I understand it he was the brigade's quartermaster. There was also an interesting article in the Connacht tribune around the time he was murdered and it references a note, (or something like that, the online copy is really unclear), but it said that it was found in his jacket after he was shot and was signed 'M. Collins'.

Anyway I would really appreciate any direction at all that you could give me!

Thanks!

Siobhan

Barna

Hi Siobhan. He was the quartermaster. Have a look at O Droighneains witness statement (Bureau of military history)where he gives an account of the night of Geoghean's killing. It appears he was carrying a despatch from Collins for O'Droghneain, but according to the latter was able to hide it in a hystack before he was shot. Cormac probably knows a lot more about this than I do.

Barna

You could always talk to our European commisioner MGQ who I believe is a grand-daughter of John G

siobhan62

Wow thanks, i will get on that asap! also you mentioned he was involved in Joyce's trial, where could I get more info on that?

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated

cormacocomhrai

Hi Siobhán,
I assume you have Pádraic Ó Laoi's book on Father Griffin. Barna is right about Ó Droighneáin's Witness Statement. You can access that at Military Archives or at National Archives. Military Archives you need an appointment with Nat/arch you just need to register. Both of those are in Dublin. ó Droighneáin speaks very highly of Geoghegan in his witness statement.
Check the Truce period 1921-1922 a monument was unveiled to Geoghegan in Moycullen by the East Connemara Brigade.

I wouldn`t get carried away by the Michael collins note though. He was in possession of a despatch but British Forces carried out a number of dirty tricks killings in Galway which they tried to blame on the IRA.
As far as I know there are no connections between MGQ and John Geoghegan but your John Geoghegan's family are still around. Get in touch with Seán Kyne TD. He`s from Moycullen, interested in history and a nice fella as well. you wouldn`t know who he'd know that' s still around.
Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

cormacocomhrai

Incidentally, Siobhán, I doubt that you'll have enough on Geoghegan for an essay but you could look at British reprisals in East connemara or the republican movement in the area or something along those lines.

Geoghegan was goalie of the Moycullen hurling and football team at the time. You might get a photo or info through the GAA

siobhan62

Thanks for that info, I have been in touch with Sean Kyne, it was his family that erected the monument in Uggool in 2004. I will look for the other monument too. This is all really helpful, I was at a brick wall earlier, I knew about the witness statements but wouldn't have know to look at O'Droighneain's specifically so that is great. The essay is only around 5000 words and as it is for local history it is more about placing the event in it's locality and the locality itself, I will be focused on IRA activity in the area anyway, so I should have enough (I hope!).

I Came across a poem by Catherine Byron called 'The Black and tans deliver a son- Galway 1921' and wondered if t was about John Geoghegan,

Didn't she step out into the yard God love her
and see her own son's brains scattered like mash about the flags? And didn't she then kneel down
and gather the soggy shards of her womb's child into her apron
carefully, as a girl gathers mushrooms in the September
And didn't she then stifle the outbreath of her grieving tillonlya whistle
or whimper of her lamentation was heard in that place
fields?
lest the soldiers note her the more?

sorry it came out like that- copy and paste! sounds like it could be written about him but have no proof!

Anyway, thanks again for all your help,

Siobhan

cormacocomhrai

God knows about the poem. There must have been a lot of bits of poetry like that at the time. Might or might not have referred to Geoghegan. Make sure you include the quip one of the killers made to him about not needing his boots.

get a copy of Gan Baisteadh, Tomás Bairéad wrote it in 1972, as far as I know the only account of republican activity in the area written by a Moycullen Volunteer. He was neutral in the Civil War.
The Free State barracks was attacked in Moycullen in the C/W. December 1922.

Keep in touch and let us know how you got on.
Is mise
Cormac Ó Comhraí

allenrod

Hi All,
I'm a newcomer to 'Boards' - my very first entry!
I live in Moycullen, Co. Galway and (amongst other things) I'm a (very) mature student of Irish history and local history - and am interested in all that has been written on this thread.
I'm unsure if 'Siobhan' has completed her essay but if she hasn't I might be able to suggest a few things to her.
I've done quite a bit of research on 'the history of parish police' and in particular the history of the police in Moycullen...probably the makings of a mini book! I'm also very interested in the entire 1912 - 1923 period.
By the way the old Moycullen RIC Barracks, where the White Gables restaurant is today, was burnt down on 4th April 1920, the same night that 4/5 other Co. Galway Barracks (and 200 plus other ones around Ireland) were attacked - like Moycullen practically all were 'empty'...the RIC men having been earlier withdrawn to larger towns (the Moycullen force to Galway). Subsequently, this Barracks was rebuilt after compensation had been paid to the owner - which by then had been purchased for another use. Then when the new 'Civic Guard' force arrived in 1923 - with instructions to take up duty in the old Barracks - they found themselves 'locked out'...and were basically 'homeless'. A few chapters of my 'mini book' could be devoted to what happened over the following few years - until the new (present) 'Station' was constructed and occupied in 1927.
Also, you all probably know by now that much of the BHM digital files are freely down-loadable on the web - and I'm informed more files will be added shortly and in early 2013.
Thanks to all and keep up the good work.

Barna

Hi Allenrod - look forward to reading your work. Did you find out where the Moycullen lads were in 1916

katyc132

According to personal witness statement accounts provided in 1950's, Patrick Joyce was arrested as a spy and after trial held by IRA was executed by East Connemara Brigade (Thornton was OC). According to Bureau Military History 1913-1921) Witness statements the IRA were certain that there was spy in Barna area as Tans/RIC were lifting too many of the boys so IRA had few fellas in post office check mail going to British from locals. Joyce had sent several letters informing on several members, then another one or two complaining when his first complaints were not acted on quickly enough. To confirm it was indeed Joyce writing them they broke into his office to check his handwriting and signature against the letters. Shortly after he was disappeared/executed his son Joseph purportedly left Ireland for Britain and joined the Tans, dying in Palestine still part of Tans.

jimmerc

Hi everyone,
My interest into the murder of Fr Griffin is based on an allegation that an RIC Head Constable James Mc Elhill who was murdered in Kilbeggan, Co Westmeath on the 12th of June 1921 was executed for his part in the murder of Fr Griffin. I have started to investigate this allegation very recently and I would be grateful if anyone has any information or can point me to any source that would assist me in my investigation.

Another local 'historian' claims that there was irrevocable evidence to show that Mc Elhill was involved in Fr Griffin's murder but I would like to do a through investigation and not be carried away by emotional/political research.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

cormacocomhrai

Where did you hear that? I don't have Willie Henry's book to hand on the War of Independence in Galway so I can't categorically say that the allegation isn't made in it. From my own point of view I have certainly never seen any evidence that suggested that members of the IRA were able to trace and then kill anyone directly implicated in Father Griffin's death. On the other hand I have seen it being used to motivate IRA men to shoot against men in police uniforms (as a reprisal against the uniform in general).

Have a look at the Bureau of military history statement of Joe Togher a leading IRA intelligence officer in Galway city and that of Mícheál Ó Droighneáin the OC of the IRA's East Connemara Brigade. Neither of them make any mention of an allegation of that kind. They would surely have been involved in the tracing of a suspect. I'd suspect that there is no basis at all to the story. If you are interested in tracing McEhill you could trace where he was stationed in the National Archives in Kew, London in the Home Office series. The press at the time would probably have mentioned where he was previously stationed as well.

jimmerc

Thanks for the info and the pointer to the military archives. I have checked them out and found statements regarding Fr Griffin's murder. There is no mention of a Head Constable Mc Elhill in any of the statements or in the archives. I am pursuing Mc Elhill's records with the Kew archive and the Grada Museum at Dublin Castle.

This allegation came from a letter to a local paper in reply to a suggestion to commemorate RIC members killed in Westmeath during the War of Independence. It had a very biased republican slant and used this allegation to argue against any commemoration being held.

While I do not have an opinion either way, it annoys me when so called 'historians' make wild and unsupported allegations that brings disrepute on anyone who is genuinely trying to bring the historical evidence into the public forum.

Once again thank you cormacocomhrai for your assistance in this matter. Will keep pursuing the case.

cormacocomhrai

"While I do not have an opinion either way, it annoys me when so called 'historians' make wild and unsupported allegations that brings disrepute on anyone who is genuinely trying to bring the historical evidence into the public forum."

Comes with the territory I'm afraid.