Corrib and Shannon without FF

Spacedog

After the election, will the issues of Corrib and Shannon be allowed to be re-examined?

During the Greens initial negotiations with FF in 2007, FF made it clear that these 2 topics were non-negotiable and not even to be mentioned.

Now that FF are out on their ear perhaps it's time to unstand the 'informal agreement' between Ireland and the United States, that allows them to kidnap free citizens from anywhere in the world, and transport them through out airspace and airport facilities, to be tortured indeffinately without trial? The UK reciently paid compensation to released victims of Gitmo for failing to act, perhaps we should too?

Likewise, the Great FF Gas giveaway in Mayo is a perfect example of government corruption, and is actually something that can be resolved legally...

Article 10.1
All natural resources, including the air and all forms of potential energy, within the jurisdiction of the Parliament and Government established by this Constitution and all royalties and franchises within that jurisdiction belong to the State subject to all estates and interests therein for the time being lawfully vested in any person or body.

...recouping this given away wealth, and mining it ourselves at sea would provide jobs, much needed revenue, energy independence, and confidence in any new government.

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END OF POST - personal rant follows...

I'm tired about hearing about how we will all have to 'tighten out belts' AGAIN, while corporation tax is unchanged, banks getting a 100bn shot in the arm, business are getting completly off the hook slashing wages after pocketing the profit of the good times, all in the slight hope of returning to the 'cocane and sushi' days of the celtic tiger. for many of us those times were not so great, and we have not forgotten these injustices.

The IMF seem only to care about selling off the copper from the "unviable" traintracks to the west, and not about investigating the culture political corruption and lobbying that is the underlying cause of the economic depression in this country, and to a larger extent in western civilisation. (after all the so called 'global recession' is not so global in Asian countries where they actually... you know, do and make stuff for a living.)

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

hmmm, I'll bite just slightly about the Corrib thing, mainly because saw the poster on this at the Dail gates yesterday.

Let's talk about the 420bn euro giveaway to Shell that the Sinn Feiners were parading as our big solution yesterday.

In fact lets just stick to the most basic maths....

The entire market value of the company Royal Dutch Shell is £125bn. So you are saying that the value of this one oilfield they have in Ireland is worth about 2.5 times the value of this vast worldwide company.

Either the stock market is incredibly stupid, or you have made up your numbers...

Eliot Rosewater

There's a good post here by Scofflaw refuting the Shell To Sea position: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66163445&postcount=31

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

There's a good post here by Scofflaw refuting the Shell To Sea position: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66163445&postcount=31

That is good and thanks for posting it. In fairness though think there's too many words and that allows wiggle room when people want to confuse the issues.

Just showing that the actual value of the entire company is vastly less than the Sinn Feiners claim for this one oilfield shows the absurdity with no wiggle-room allowed imo.

ArmaniJeanss

Hitchhiker's Guide to... wrote: »

Just showing that the actual value of the entire company is vastly less than the Sinn Feiners claim for this one oilfield shows the absurdity with no wiggle-room allowed imo.

It's not in any way unusual for a company to have an asset the value of which is many many times more than the value of the company, so I'm not sure your argument is the killer argument you think it is.

Admittedly this would generally be companies with massive debt, which probably isn't the case with Shell.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

It's not in any way unusual for a company to have an asset the value of which is many many times more than the value of the company, so I'm not sure your argument is the killer argument you think it is.

Admittedly this would generally be companies with massive debt, which probably isn't the case with Shell.

They have about 60bn euro of debt though and apparently this one oilfield is worth about 210bn euro more than entire company's combined debt and equity.

And that's also assuming that everything else in the company is worth nothing. Key point is that we're talking about a mistake in the hundred of billions whichever way we look at it!

meglome

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

There's a good post here by Scofflaw refuting the Shell To Sea position: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66163445&postcount=31

We had another discussion about it here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056089807

nesf

Spacedog wrote: »

The IMF seem only to care about selling off the copper from the "unviable" traintracks to the west, and not about investigating the culture political corruption and lobbying that is the underlying cause of the economic depression in this country, and to a larger extent in western civilisation. (after all the so called 'global recession' is not so global in Asian countries where they actually... you know, do and make stuff for a living.)

That (unfortunately) isn't within the IMF's remit. They'll deal with fiscal issues and hopefully will shake up how the public service is organised but outside of the fiscal side of things they won't force us to do anything. We'll have to clean up our political system on our own.