Drifting away from Christianity....

Bluehair

I'm reaching out here to see if some fellow boardies might have encountered the same dilemmas as I feel like I'm approaching and would be grateful for any advice or experience you can provide

Both myself and my wife have found ourselves drifting away from Christianity for many many years now. Both born Catholic, did the whole church wedding thing etc. etc. For as long as I can remember though so much of what the Church teaches seems to grate with what my our morality and, indeed spirituality, feels like.

Once I came across Buddhism much of what I read just seems to 'make sense' to me, on both an intellectual and spiritual level. We've both been exploring Mindfullness and found great benefits to be had from the practice.

There's been no great urgency for years now for either of us to go very much deeper into this transition. I suspect fear (of what?) on both our parts has slowed things. Here's the dilemma though. We're expecting a baby next year

Now it's thrilling and exciting and we are both looking forward to it enormously. It's given myself a new found focus I never had before too. It's also suddenly dawned on us we'll have to make a choice on our spirituality now.

It would be soooo easy to just go through the expected motions for everyone elses sake (friends, family). That said I think I would feel such a hypocrite for standing at an alter getting our child baptised and making the various promises to the Church that, in my heart, I know I'm not going to keep (Right Speech how are ya?). I also feel bearing in mind the direction our own spiritual lifes are taking that it would be extremely cynical of me to go down this road with our child when it clashes so deeply with our own values.

The thing is it's such a major decision... I can forsee a certain reaction to a declaration that we ourselves are forgoing our Catholic background (friends would be supportive, family will have a canary despite not having been to Church themselves in donkeys years.) The notion of not baptising our child though would really put the cat amongst the pigeons :eek: (i.e. condemning our child to never 'going to heaven').

As we've been discussing this the implications are getting bigger and bigger. How do you raise a child in the Buddhist tradition in Ireland? How do you integrate that with more traditional upbringings here? What about schools? Is there some equivalent of baptism whereby we can still celebrate the new life with our friends and family? If it's a girl she can forget about the fairytale 'church' wedding. What about when we ourselves pass on (i.e. we aren't going to be buried in a graveyard for them to visit).

Now I appreciate we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves but the imminent arrival has brought much of these previously vague notions into sharp relief.

We'd be immensely appreciative if anyone could share their similar experiences and how it worked out for them, especially if you are raising a child.

seriousfizz

Hello! It's nice to 'see' some new people around here! Doesn't get much traffic, this forum.

I've actually thought about your exact dilemma myself. Although there is a significant difference between us - I'm only 18, and it's all just thinking for me, whereas you've got the reality to face. But still, I think I've got one or two things which may be of use to you

On the issue of raising your child and his or her's spirituality - obviously a difficult choice. Do you raise your child into the cultural religious norm, or into something totally different and not fully known to you? One piece of advice I've heard that might be some help is to seek to raise your child as honest, and questioning. In theory, if you can do this, then they will be honest to themselves about spiritual topics, and obviously questioning will help them to achieve truth.

With regards to school enrollment and the catholic church, there are multi-denominational schools all over the country. So if you're planning on not getting your child baptised (which is perfectly reasonable) you'll need to do some research and try to find a school nearby which will accept your child regardless of yours/their religion.


I know that, even if this does help, you've still got a lot to think about. But don't be afraid to keep us up to date and hopefully we can all learn from each other

Almost forgot - congratulations!

Hi OP and welcome.
I don't have children but I'm interested in the whole discussion on how to bring them up so I'll just note a few things for you.

There are a number of threads in A&A about people dealing with raising non-christian children.
I know you asked about buddism specifically, but from the POV of "oh no, not baptised?! what about school?" you'll find a lot of supporting experiences there. Particularly on the school issue. There will be educate together, or some community schools who accept non-catholic children though of course they will give preferences.

Is there some equivalent of baptism whereby we can still celebrate the new life with our friends and family?

I think a number of people have "introducing the baby" type of ceremonies/parties- it's like the baptism without the church :pac:
Invite friends and family over and celebrate and introduce your baby.
Maybe even light some candles and have some well-wishing if you want to add that aspect.

If it's a girl she can forget about the fairytale 'church' wedding.

Not at all - she can have herself baptised when she is older if she wants to, and following from that she can have the wedding I'm sure. It's not a now-or-never situation
If it's communion, well, you can always say "if you feel left out getting dressed up let's get you a fancy new dress for that day as well", think it's worked for some.

That said I think I would feel such a hypocrite for standing at an alter getting our child baptised and making the various promises to the Church that, in my heart, I know I'm not going to keep (Right Speech how are ya?).

I'm glad you feel this way. Remember as well that not only is it a problem for you but it would be very disrespectful for the church to have someone show up basically making a mockery of the vows.
Remember also that the church seems to have revoked the "opt out" situation - it would be a lot easier for your child to convert later in life than to ever leave.

From what I can see OP it will be an uphill struggle given how ingrained the church is to everything, but on the other hand you have to do what's right for your child, whether that's baptism or not.

Finally, for raising them buddhist... I don't really know, but my personal take on it would be to encourage the general principles - mindfulness, compassion, right speech, basic children's meditation when they're older, etc. I think other than that, we should remember the buddha asks us to judge the teachings then decide for ourselves - so I wouldn't be too quick to label them with it, personally speaking. Introduce them to a range of the different beliefs that are out there and leave it up to them would be my thinking.


Best of luck

Bluehair

seriousfizz wrote: »

Hello! It's nice to 'see' some new people around here! Doesn't get much traffic, this forum.

Thanks, perhaps this will stir some debate back on here I've been lurking in this forum for years myself

seriousfizz wrote: »

One piece of advice I've heard that might be some help is to seek to raise your child as honest, and questioning. In theory, if you can do this, then they will be honest to themselves about spiritual topics, and obviously questioning will help them to achieve truth.

Funnily enough this was how I was raised. Despite my own mother being devoutly Catholic she went to lengths as a child to expose me to other faiths and encouraged the notion that ultimately they are all to the same end. Ultimately I suppose it's not the religion that I balk at but the organization (Ghandi's famous quote always strikes true with me "I like your Christ, but not your Christians")

seriousfizz wrote: »

regards to school enrollment and the catholic church, there are multi-denominational schools all over the country. So if you're planning on not getting your child baptised (which is perfectly reasonable) you'll need to do some research and try to find a school nearby which will accept your child regardless of yours/their religion.

As i've been doing more research into this aspect I'm less and less concerned. One benefit from the wide and varied immigration of latter years is a wide and varied influx of children of differing background to the school system.

seriousfizz wrote: »

But don't be afraid to keep us up to date and hopefully we can all learn from each other Almost forgot - congratulations!

Many thanks I will make an effort to update with any decisions we make.

Bluehair

bluewolf wrote: »

There are a number of threads in A&A about people dealing with raising non-christian children.

Having checked out Aviation & Aircraft and Art & Architecture I finally figured out you meant Atheism & Agnosticism Thanks for the pointer I will check out that forum. Funnily enough it then dawned on me I actually know a couple of people with kids who profess to be Atheist so I must enquire from them how they deal with these kind of issues too.

bluewolf wrote: »

know you asked about buddism specifically, but from the POV of "oh no, not baptised?! what about school?" you'll find a lot of supporting experiences there. Particularly on the school issue. There will be educate together, or some community schools who accept non-catholic children though of course they will give preferences.

I found the educate together concept and like it a lot, seems like a good solution and as mentioned above the schooling issue itself is becoming less of a concern to me the more I learn about it.

bluewolf wrote: »

think a number of people have "introducing the baby" type of ceremonies/parties- it's like the baptism without the church :pac:
Invite friends and family over and celebrate and introduce your baby.
Maybe even light some candles and have some well-wishing if you want to add that aspect.

I like that idea a lot since our friends are quite close though family less so. Sharing these moments with those dear to us is important.

bluewolf wrote: »

at all - she can have herself baptised when she is older if she wants to, and following from that she can have the wedding I'm sure. It's not a now-or-never situation If it's communion, well, you can always say "if you feel left out getting dressed up let's get you a fancy new dress for that day as well", think it's worked for some.

You make an excellent point here. Again thinking about it we do know a couple where she converted to Christianity in order to marry (she was atheist). As you say not a 'now-or-never' situation.

bluewolf wrote: »

glad you feel this way. Remember as well that not only is it a problem for you but it would be very disrespectful for the church to have someone show up basically making a mockery of the vows.

As, unfortunately, so many do. Many of our friends and colleagues have had children in recent years. They do the baptism and then thats the last time they'll see the church until communion (or maybe each Christmas but even that appears to be optional). Even those with older children openly only attend church 'because they have to' in order to get the communion or confirmation ceremonies done. I certainly wouldn't criticize their choices but it doesn't feel right for us. We've never been ones to do something just 'because thats what everyone does' and I believe strongly that the kids themselves pick up on this piecemeal approach to faith such that the whole affair becomes borderline absurd.

bluewolf wrote: »

, for raising them buddhist... I don't really know, but my personal take on it would be to encourage the general principles - mindfulness, compassion, right speech, basic children's meditation when they're older, etc. I think other than that, we should remember the buddha asks us to judge the teachings then decide for ourselves - so I wouldn't be too quick to label them with it, personally speaking. Introduce them to a range of the different beliefs that are out there and leave it up to them would be my thinking.

You make an excellent point here and thank you for it. You're right of course, it's not about 'picking' a faith for the child as it is raising him with an approach to morality and starting him on his own path to enlightenment; whatever road that may be.

Lab_Mouse

Bluehair wrote: »

Having checked out Aviation & Aircraft and Art & Architecture I finally figured out you meant Atheism & Agnosticism

LOL:pac:

EDIT:I have nothing to add,think bluewolf above has said it all.

Asiaprod

Firstly welcome Bluehair.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. I was a catholic that converted to Buddhism, and it took me a long time to shake off all the trappings I had collected re my past religion. Granted I moved from Ireland to live in Japan and my wife is Japanese so I did not have to deal with the enrollment in school thing for our kid that you may have to face in Ireland. I did have to deal with relatives and family and I found that once we had made our choice clear to them (she was not going to be automatically baptized and entered onto the list as another catholic) my family accepted that it was our child and as the parents it was I and my wife that had the say in how our kid was raised. And at this time my wife was not a Buddhist, she is now ;-)

In relation to children, baptism, confirmation and schools. I have never believed in doing things I do not believe in just because it would make someone else happy. I don't care who they are. For me, that would be a false position to adopt. I do not believe that any child is in a position to make a commitment to any path. They need to first experience all thats out there and make their own choice...when they are ready. This was how my own daughter was educated and she made her own choice in her teen years.

Growing up she had multi-denominational friends include Mormons, Catholics JWs, A&As and a load of religions you have probably never heard of that she hung out with. The funny thing is, I never saw any trouble brewing between these friends, or any religious pressure coming from their parents. The kids all accept each other as they were, and the parents were happy that their kids were happy.

We gave my daughter an open education, her school had kids from all religions. We talked about all the religions out there. We were never negative about them, we explained that they were not our choice, and assured her that when she was ready to decide for herself, we would respect her choice and would support her. We practiced our path openly (in my path we have our own ceremonies and daily practice, and we welcomed her when she joined in, but did not push her to participate. She chose to be a Buddhist, just like her parents. And her new best friends are Muslim so I am going to be learning a lot of new things.

Re education, I could not put it any better than Bluewolf ", for raising them buddhist... I don't really know, but my personal take on it would be to encourage the general principles - mindfulness, compassion, right speech, basic children's meditation when they're older, etc. I think other than that, we should remember the buddha asks us to judge the teachings then decide for ourselves - so I wouldn't be too quick to label them with it, personally speaking. Introduce them to a range of the different beliefs that are out there and leave it up to them would be my thinking."
Thats a perfect response.

Everyone else here has pretty much covered it so the only thing I can offer is a belief that I hold very dear and have so much personal proof of. That is " when one truly commits to the Buddhist life style, good fortune inevitably follows and those thing that were once thought of as problems, when challenged with a true heart, turn into opportunities for one's own growth and happiness. In other words, my problems actually disappeared, they were never problems to start with. I thought they were. In fact, they were fears that I was not facing. It was up to me to find a way around them. And I did.

H1ppy

I'm happy to say anyone who can ask these questions shows an uncommon degree of enlightenment.

Congratulations to you and yours on your new arrival.

As an atheist I find the degree to which children are indoctrinated into their parents religion disturbing. Obviously, I must have some problems with the nature of religion in the first place, or I wouldn't feel so bad about the indoctrination. Needless to say it wouldn't bother me to see children indoctrinated into stamp collecting, or picture painting. Of course, people are not routinely knee-capped, stoned to death, suicide-bombed, missiled, shot, raped or made to live in fear of eternal damnation for themselves or the people they love because of which stamps they collect, or which pictures they paint. Unless they're pictures of the prophet.

But enough of that for now.

I have friends who share my lack of faith, but have decided to have their child baptised into the RCC for form, to get her into a good school (whatever that means), to keep the family quiet, or whatever. Their reasons are their own, and they include the above and maybe more, but they don't include faith, this I know. They are disquieted by their own actions in this, but not to a great degree, as they are not particularly deep existential thinkers to begin with. This is good in my opinion, because I believe they are more at peace than they would be otherwise, and they are my friends and I wish them peace even when I dislike their decisions.

A child is not born with faith, I think we can all agree on this. At least, it seems obvious to me. A baby barely experiences what we would recognise as thought, so it could hardly have what we would call faith. There are good evolutionary reasons why children believe what they are told, including anything about their parents religion, which I won't go into unless asked, the post would be too long. But the point is they will absorb whatever is served to them. You would do them a great service to teach them not to belong to any one particular religion, or to simply accept a given, arbitrary doctrine as true, unquestioningly, but to think for themselves in all things, as clearly as they are able, and to seek the truth.

Not their own truth, necessarily. I don't believe in relative truth. I believe things are either true, or they are not. But the truth insofar as they are able to apprehend it. That would be an admirable goal.


I bought a book on Buddhism on Friday - 'Buddhism - Plain and Simple'. I don't normally buy books from the spirituality section of the bookshop. Normally I buy from the science section. I have often seen it written or heard it said that Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy. I am very interested in philosophy, and so when I saw this book, I decided to buy it. I have only read a little way in, but so far it seems like a pretty good book.

Being an atheist, I have no belief in the supernatural. But I am sometimes keenly aware of the existential need for a spiritual dimension to my existance. This is part of what motivates my interest in philosophy. I don't know that I would ever be a Buddhist, and I don't know that I wouldn't. But I hope I will always try to be a free and honest thinker.

To the OP: There may be a material and social benefit, in terms of schools and community, but I don't think there is any real existential benefit, to being indoctrinated into a belief in the supernatural. Assuming that children will believe whatever they are told by their adults, and that they will be indoctrinated, as it were, one way or the other, I would indoctrinate them into a critical and skeptical frame of mind, teaching them to question authority and seek truth, and to be moral and ethical for the sake of the those values, and for the sake of the welfare of their fellow beings, rahter than for the sake of avoiding eternal damnation.

In fact, I would go so far as to venture that there is an existential malifit to being indoctrinated into a belief in the supernatural that outwieghs those benefits mentioned above.

Asiaprod

Welcome H1ppy one. Always happy to see new new faces.

H1ppy wrote: »

I bought a book on Buddhism on Friday - 'Buddhism - Plain and Simple'. I don't normally buy books from the spirituality section of the bookshop. Normally I buy from the science section. I have often seen it written or heard it said that Buddhism is not a religion, but a philosophy. I am very interested in philosophy, and so when I saw this book, I decided to buy it. I have only read a little way in, but so far it seems like a pretty good book.

Reading is always enlightening. Please feel free to post up any questions or impressions you have here. Buddhism means many things to many people. And do remember that we also have

• Theist Buddhists
• Atheist Buddhist
• Agnostic Buddhist
• Those that are simply seeking a philosophy.

Buddhism for me is unique in that it has something for everyone.

Onesimus

Hi Op. I went down the route of buddism too from being a Catholic. I realised that it had everything I needed according to my tastes. Then woke up to the reality of the following:

That people are forever talking about how there is a ''crisis in morals'' rather than there is a crisis in the person who fails to apply himself to the morals. Thus everyone it seems bends the unchangable morals of Gods teaching to suit their weakness.

For example: a pupil is learning how to do the sum of 2+2=4. However, he keeps coming up with the sum of 2+2=5. does the math teacher bend the unchangable law of physics and allow the child to come up with the wrong sum? or does he help the child overcome his weakness and apply himself to get the sum right?

You are doing what I used to do. In my weakness I failed to apply myself to the unchangable God and his morals/teaching and rather went shopping for buddism. in which told me I can believe basically in what I want and do what I want.

Your free to go whatever road you wish, but just thought I'd throw my story out there for you. I'd invite you to think about it a little bit more. Do some research as well upon the Saints and miracles that have occured through the Church throughout the centuries and those who once had the weakness you had such as myself and others who overcame it by Gods grace and became great Saints.

Asiaprod

Welcome, an interesting post. Am I correct in assuming that you went full circle and rejoined your original faith, or did you just return to your faith in another format seeing and accepting God in a personal new light.

I am interested in this as I truly have never met anyone that went full circle. Its true that everyone must follow their own path, would you say that Buddhism helped you to re-find what was missing from your original faith. I would like to hear more on this.

[-0-]

Asiaprod wrote: »

Welcome, an interesting post. Am I correct in assuming that you went full circle and rejoined your original faith, or did you just return to your faith in another format seeing and accepting God in a personal new light.

I am interested in this as I truly have never met anyone that went full circle. Its true that everyone must follow their own path, would you say that Buddhism helped you to re-find what was missing from your original faith. I would like to hear more on this.

I'd like to hear this as well.

Onesimus

Welcome, an interesting post. Am I correct in assuming that you went full circle and rejoined your original faith, or did you just return to your faith in another format seeing and accepting God in a personal new light.

Thanks for the reply. I would say I did a full circle. In my ignorance of my own faith I suddenly began to have an interest in the spiritual. I read into buddism and became interested in it amongst others. I did not rejoin my faith and see God in a ''new'' light. For God is unchangable and is always the same light. I came back to accept the unchangable light that I just could not change and found happiness in the acceptance of it. Changing the unchangable according to my tastes rendered me living in an illusion built by myself. The demonstration upon the laws of physics only proves that we can try to change the unchangable but it is not truth nor happiness. Faith is needed to move unto that step I suppose.

I am interested in this as I truly have never met anyone that went full circle. Its true that everyone must follow their own path, would you say that Buddhism helped you to re-find what was missing from your original faith. I would like to hear more on this.

There are many who would go full circle I would assume. People like the Op who head off into other things and who may with Gods grace end up back where they started. Just like me.

Like God who draws the good out of a bad situation Buddism was just thrown in the mix along with others and was that stepping stone back to the unchangeable fullness of truth that is Christ Jesus.

I think the op is evidence of those who are hungry for spirituality but are not being offered it. Unfortunately christianity in Ireland takes on a cultural form and has many illusory veils built by those who promote it and those who hate it. But after looking into the spirituality of the desert fathers and mystics such as St.John of the Cross, Ignatius of Loyola amongst other miracles such as the unexplained science of apparitions and healings carried out within the marian shrines around the world, I am happy to say that I am grounded in the truth and glad that Jesus took me home.

digme

Bluehair wrote: »

I'm reaching out here to see if some fellow boardies might have encountered the same dilemmas as I feel like I'm approaching and would be grateful for any advice or experience you can provide

Both myself and my wife have found ourselves drifting away from Christianity for many many years now. Both born Catholic, did the whole church wedding thing etc. etc. For as long as I can remember though so much of what the Church teaches seems to grate with what my our morality and, indeed spirituality, feels like.

Once I came across Buddhism much of what I read just seems to 'make sense' to me, on both an intellectual and spiritual level. We've both been exploring Mindfullness and found great benefits to be had from the practice.

There's been no great urgency for years now for either of us to go very much deeper into this transition. I suspect fear (of what?) on both our parts has slowed things. Here's the dilemma though. We're expecting a baby next year

Now it's thrilling and exciting and we are both looking forward to it enormously. It's given myself a new found focus I never had before too. It's also suddenly dawned on us we'll have to make a choice on our spirituality now.

It would be soooo easy to just go through the expected motions for everyone elses sake (friends, family). That said I think I would feel such a hypocrite for standing at an alter getting our child baptised and making the various promises to the Church that, in my heart, I know I'm not going to keep (Right Speech how are ya?). I also feel bearing in mind the direction our own spiritual lifes are taking that it would be extremely cynical of me to go down this road with our child when it clashes so deeply with our own values.

The thing is it's such a major decision... I can forsee a certain reaction to a declaration that we ourselves are forgoing our Catholic background (friends would be supportive, family will have a canary despite not having been to Church themselves in donkeys years.) The notion of not baptising our child though would really put the cat amongst the pigeons :eek: (i.e. condemning our child to never 'going to heaven').

As we've been discussing this the implications are getting bigger and bigger. How do you raise a child in the Buddhist tradition in Ireland? How do you integrate that with more traditional upbringings here? What about schools? Is there some equivalent of baptism whereby we can still celebrate the new life with our friends and family? If it's a girl she can forget about the fairytale 'church' wedding. What about when we ourselves pass on (i.e. we aren't going to be buried in a graveyard for them to visit).

Now I appreciate we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves but the imminent arrival has brought much of these previously vague notions into sharp relief.

We'd be immensely appreciative if anyone could share their similar experiences and how it worked out for them, especially if you are raising a child.

Why not leave them make up their own mind when they're good and ready?How can you expect your child to understand something at such a young age .

Onesimus

digme wrote: »

Why not leave them make up their own mind when they're good and ready?How can you expect your child to understand something at such a young age .

You do not expect your children to understand that swallowing a lump of hash at the age of 2 is right but wouldnt you prevent them from doing so?

Would that be a violation of their free will to prevent them? No! it would be a pointer in the right direction.

My desire to bring my kids up in the truth of the Loving Gospel is a pointer in the right direction, one that will lead them home to Love and truth.

mccoist

I am just pleased there seems to be a discussion and a meeting of minds here. Hello various people and I will post better reply when I have given some of your posts some consideration.
I myself novice buddhist ,have recently pursued been studying buddhism.
Meditation practice has been very beneficial, and raised awareness on mind ego and nature of mind definately helpful.
As regards my kids they are both 15/16 and have both noticed a difference in my ways self etc which seems to be positive.
as regards influencing them I can only hope this is a positive step,and I know now they will choose their own path, irrespective of wheter I am being christian or buddhist, which realising this is one of positve,s i have learned .

Carra23

Bluehair wrote: »

I'm reaching out here to see if some fellow boardies might have encountered the same dilemmas as I feel like I'm approaching and would be grateful for any advice or experience you can provide

Both myself and my wife have found ourselves drifting away from Christianity for many many years now. Both born Catholic, did the whole church wedding thing etc. etc. For as long as I can remember though so much of what the Church teaches seems to grate with what my our morality and, indeed spirituality, feels like.

Once I came across Buddhism much of what I read just seems to 'make sense' to me, on both an intellectual and spiritual level. We've both been exploring Mindfullness and found great benefits to be had from the practice.

There's been no great urgency for years now for either of us to go very much deeper into this transition. I suspect fear (of what?) on both our parts has slowed things. Here's the dilemma though. We're expecting a baby next year

Now it's thrilling and exciting and we are both looking forward to it enormously. It's given myself a new found focus I never had before too. It's also suddenly dawned on us we'll have to make a choice on our spirituality now.

It would be soooo easy to just go through the expected motions for everyone elses sake (friends, family). That said I think I would feel such a hypocrite for standing at an alter getting our child baptised and making the various promises to the Church that, in my heart, I know I'm not going to keep (Right Speech how are ya?). I also feel bearing in mind the direction our own spiritual lifes are taking that it would be extremely cynical of me to go down this road with our child when it clashes so deeply with our own values.

The thing is it's such a major decision... I can forsee a certain reaction to a declaration that we ourselves are forgoing our Catholic background (friends would be supportive, family will have a canary despite not having been to Church themselves in donkeys years.) The notion of not baptising our child though would really put the cat amongst the pigeons :eek: (i.e. condemning our child to never 'going to heaven').

As we've been discussing this the implications are getting bigger and bigger. How do you raise a child in the Buddhist tradition in Ireland? How do you integrate that with more traditional upbringings here? What about schools? Is there some equivalent of baptism whereby we can still celebrate the new life with our friends and family? If it's a girl she can forget about the fairytale 'church' wedding. What about when we ourselves pass on (i.e. we aren't going to be buried in a graveyard for them to visit).

Now I appreciate we may be getting a bit ahead of ourselves but the imminent arrival has brought much of these previously vague notions into sharp relief.

We'd be immensely appreciative if anyone could share their similar experiences and how it worked out for them, especially if you are raising a child.

I have been through this experience recently enough. Similarly to yourself, I was forced into being a Catholic but when I developed my own mind I began to question the beliefs and teachings and gradually decided it was not for me.

I am with my girlfriend 15 years and she is from the same background as me but unfortunately not as rebelous ! We have 2 youngs sons, one is 3 and the other 6 months.

We had many arguements when the time was approaching to have our 1st son Christened and I eventually gave into her fear of ridicule. So far our 2nd son who is 6 months old has not been Christened yet and my feelings have grown stronger over the last 3 years so I will not give in this time.

It's funny because my girlfriend feels the same as me(I think) but she is too afraid of what people will think and how they will react to us not having our 2nd son Christened. The funniest thing about it all is that we plan to marry next year and it will be a civil or spiritualist ceremony ! ! !

I think Digme has a fair point when he says dont do anything for your child with regard choosing a religion and let them decide when they are old enough. Lets be honest it is quite a personal thing and not for everyone so choosing yourself is important.

Bluehair

Well it's been almost a year since my original post so I thought I'd bump this one to the top again and update people on my own conclusions.

Apologies it took so long; first conclusion; being a parent is hard work! (and also the most rewarding thing I have ever done).

It's been a.... challenging.. year.

In addition to the arrival of our son, now seven months, I also lost my own mother within weeks of his birth. I have posted separately on this issue. I got a job after years of unemployment and then had to leave after becoming very ill myself.

While I'll refrain from going into too much detail about my life I can safely say what each year of late has had more challenges that the past but this one? Well it has lent me a new perspective on things shall we say

----

With respect to my original thoughts on baptism and raising our new born as a 'Catholic' or a 'Buddhist' etc it is clear to me now I was getting caught up with the labels rather than seeking the purpose.

My own Christian upbringing is important and while continuing to explore the Buddhas teaching i have begun to appreciate that Christ has a great deal to teach us also.

Buddha -- "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
Bible -- John 4:1 "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world."

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One of the greater surprises this year was when I decided to attend the, now obligatory, 'pre-baptism' class in the local church. I confess I arrived with a degree of cynicism However to my shock the priest spoke in genuinely lovely terms of the importance of community and of raising the child in a loving environment whilst teaching him compassion for his fellow human being. Traits and behaviors, the priest actually emphasized, that were not the exclusive remit of the church but common amongst all faiths. He spoke of the inability of the child to understand or appreciate these things and that baptism was about our commitment to promise to raise him with these values until such an age as he could decide for himself what path, or indeed what faith he choose to follow. It was a surprise to me hearing a Catholic priest talking in these terms though, especially the openness to future choice of faith.

It made a great deal of sense to me and was, as I mentioned before, the way I myself was raised. My own mother took the time to ensure I both learned about and meet many other faiths during my childhood (a tougher task then in rural Ireland than today I can assure you! )

As time passed I began to appreciate the conflict I felt was one of my own making.

We got him baptised.

It was a wonderful ceremony that meant a great deal to us. As the years pass I will ensure, to the best of my ability, that my son is raised with Christian values like ; renunciation of worldly goods: "Gather not your riches up upon this earth, for there your heart will be also", renunciation of violence: "If a man strikes you on one cheek, turn the other cheek", forgiveness of sins: "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us", unconditional love: "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".

He will also be raised with Buddhas teachings in mind; the four nobel truths and the eightfold path to the cessation of suffering; Right Understanding, Right Determination, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration.

In this manner I hope to be true to myself whilst also honoring the truth of my own upbringing. I continue to seek truth where-ever it may be found.

Wish me luck