"it'd be the height of irresponsibility to call election during a crisis" - Lenihan

hatrickpatrick

So does this potential bailout effectively scupper any chance that the budget will not be passed in December and that therefore a General Election might be called as a result?

This was the one silver lining I was holding on to with regard to the 4 year plan, that the government might be ejected from office if they couldn't pass the budget themselves...

Could it still happen?

johnnyskeleton

Yes.

The oppostion could still vote against it on the basis that FF as the party responsible for the mess, should not be permitted to bind any future government to a deal to clean it up.

In fact it would be very poor form IMO for opposition parties to vote for the budget out of a misguided sense of national unity. That just plays into FF's hands even further.

To be honest, it makes very little difference whether the budget is passed in December 2010, or January 2011 under a new government. It may be inconvenient to have different tax rates at different times of the year, but IMO it would be better to suffer that inconvenience than to suffer the present government for even another 2 months.

Wolfe Tone

I still think they may try to amend the electoral act.

oppenheimer1

Of course Lenihan is right. It would be irresponsible to let a caretaker government handle such a delicate and crucial negotiation. Let them introduce their four year plan, budget and then get out.

flutered

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Of course Lenihan is right. It would be irresponsible to let a caretaker government handle such a delicate and crucial negotiation. Let them introduce their four year plan, budget and then get out.

could not the present goverment be called amounst other things a caretaker goverment,
a delicate and crucial negotiation me thinks not who ever is in goverment will be told what to do and what they are getting, everything that the present goverment negotiated has blown up in their faces, sorry in the face of my country and its citizens.

thetonynator

It was the height of irresponsibility not to call an election 2 years ago when it emerged how badly FF had managed the economy.

karlth

The exact thing happened in Iceland.

After the banking crash (i.e. like now in Ireland) there were immediate calls of a change of government and an election.

The prime minister answered: "It would be highly irresponsible to call an election during a crisis."

What happened then was the demonstrations and riots forced an election two months later.

The new leftist government was highly efficient in going after the bankers and politicians which are thought to have caused the crisis but much less efficient in handling the economy.

So be aware of what you wish for.

randylonghorn

thetonynator wrote: »

It was the height of irresponsibility not to call an election 2 years ago when it emerged how badly FF had managed the economy.

I completely agree.

However, much as I would love to see FF decimated, I don't actually think an election just now would be the best idea. It would unsettle the whole situation even more.

Nor am I at all convinced that the opposition parties actually want one, for that matter, despite their posturing. I suspect the last thing they want is to be handed the poisoned chalice of being forced to conclude and "own" a deal with the EU / ECB / IMF which will result in savage austerity measures, beginning with what will be a harsh and deeply unpopular budget.

They will posture away because they know FF won't give in easily, and wait happily to be swept into power at a time when they can throw their hands in the air and tell us that they're sorry, but their hands are tied by the deal the other lot made!

thetonynator

randylonghorn wrote: »

I completely agree.

However, much as I would love to see FF decimated, I don't actually think an election just now would be the best idea. It would unsettle the whole situation even more.

Nor am I at all convinced that the opposition parties actually want one, for that matter, despite their posturing. I suspect the last thing they want is to be handed the poisoned chalice of being forced to conclude and "own" a deal with the EU / ECB / IMF which will result in savage austerity measures, beginning with what will be a harsh and deeply unpopular budget.

They will posture away because they know FF won't give in easily, and wait happily to be swept into power at a time when they can throw their hands in the air and tell us that they're sorry, but their hands are tied by the deal the other lot made!

I agree with you there, we would be better off if this budget and finance bill passed and then maybe in the summer have the bye elections, allow the government to fall and then have a general election.

Cavehill Red

They are not your lawful government.

They have denied the democratic will of the people for years on end in relation to the by-elections.

And despite having had no mandate from the people for what they are seeking to do, they now wish to railroad it through without seeking that mandate via a general election.

They are not your lawful government and you have no obligation to obey them any longer.

Laminations

thetonynator wrote: »

I agree with you there, we would be better off if this budget and finance bill passed and then maybe in the summer have the bye elections, allow the government to fall and then have a general election.

And very soon after the election WE NEED to see criminal investigations being instigated against senior members of this government. We have to find out what happened on Sept 28th and if the allegations against Cowen (i.e. he bailed out Quinn at the expense of the country) are true.

Laminations

I'd also like to see any new government set up a public space where recovering FFers can go to beg for forgiveness and engage in necessary reflection and self flagellation. It will be difficult for them to wash the treacherous loyalty off their person but they should be given a helping hand.

wicorthered

I think the OP has picked this up wrong. The story is a leadership challenge not an election would be irresponsible. Which I think is a fair point.

Aodhfinn

Fingleton should be forced to cede his pension , the dail buildings with the corruption that has gone on there for decades and with the colonial links the building has to our previous masters SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN . a new fresh , moderate , seat of government centered at the center of the country should be built at zero cost to the irish people funded by the elite that are laughing at the bailout , that to go hand in hand with total reform of the system of democracy we have in this country .

Failure of the democratic system is a failure of us all , the price of which will be made clear next year . Irish people aught to demand a massive price for excepting a scale of debt this country will never be able to afford unless inflation nullifies it .


It has been the failure of our democratic system , teh failure of proceedure within the dail , the stagnation of real REAL political debate , that has allowed sovereignty pass away ..........

randylonghorn

Oh, kerist!

Do you really think moving the centre of government to, say, Athlone. would have a "zero cost to the Irish people"?

The Stygian Stables need to be cleaned out; that doesn't have to imply moving them!

RichardAnd

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Of course Lenihan is right. It would be irresponsible to let a caretaker government handle such a delicate and crucial negotiation. Let them introduce their four year plan, budget and then get out.

I agree completely. The budget needs to go through, afterwards, we can sort out elections and such.

Liam Byrne

It was the height of irresponsibility to unconditionally bail out cesspits like Anglo, but hey, I guess Lenihan only objects and highlights irresponsibility when he gets the benefit from that objectionable stance.

Fianna Downfall

FF must go. They have lied to the country about the most important facts in this crisis. They can't be trusted. The only reason why they don't want an election is because they will finally have to give up power.

They are not making decisions now, the IMF / EU are.

People who have bankrupt the country should not be negotiating on our behalf with these people.