Statement from gubberment at 1 pm (according to BBC)

mike65

http://twitter.com/jblynam

Major #Ireland annoucement at 1300gmt on Irish tv RTE

I presume its the 4 year plan

The Muppet

mike65 wrote: »

http://twitter.com/jblynam

Major #Ireland annoucement at 1300gmt on Irish tv RTE

I presume its the 4 year plan

Hopefully they are resigning en mass.

Poly

Lenny is due on Radio 1 at one

mike65

Right, its about the IMF plan.

Poly

Is Cowen still in Donegal?

doc_17

RTE reporting now that the application is being signed off by cabinet this evening. That should please lots of people on this forum!

Byron85

Just listening now. Richard Crowley just announced what's coming in the next hour with Lenihan and Noonan on to talk. Now, he's just switched to the news headlines and first out is that it's now likely that the cabinet is to sign off on an application for an E.U/IMF loan.

Byron85

Lenihan is on now. He's recommending to the cabinet that we apply this evening. The discussions with the EU etc were concluded yesterday evening. I like how well they kept that under wraps.

Listen here.

http://www.rte.ie/radio/liveplayer2_av.html?1_real,http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/live/radio/radio1.smil,real,200

"Protecting the Irish taxpayer".

Bit late for that now. Pull the other one.

namloc1980

Lenny still talking rubbish. Saying that we are applying for a contingency fund and that it won't be drawndown straight away - yeah right, pull the other one Lenny.

jank

Lenny talking **** as usual. I think people are finally realizing that his good speaking manner just covers up his ability to actually do this job!

Dirk Gently

Lenihan has just said he wasn't aware of official talks going on last weekend, it was only reported to him after the fact, at which stage he stepped in on Tuesday.

doc_17

It's amazing how often he says "in relation to" and "in a position".

I think in relation to his position, over a barrell would be the best way to describe it

Inquitus

If it is just a contigency fund, then its a great result for the Irish public as we will only accrue interest on what we draw down on. Having the facility should also calm the bond markets, and allow us perhaps to be able to borrow from them at a reasonable rate next year.

silverharp

I love that fact that Lenny is now thinking about the interests of the Irish taxpayer, about 2 years and €80bn late.

TheSpecialOne

He is some spoofer won't answer any questions and is spoofing to protect Fianna Fail and not the country typical gangster attitude of FF!

Trampas

the only reason we haven't drawn it down as we don't need the money straightaway.

Like getting mortgage approval while waiting on the house to be finished but the house is on the snag list

cson

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

He is some spoofer won't answer any questions and is spoofing to protect Fianna Fail and not the country typical gangster attitude of FF!

Come 2012 [Or indeed quite sooner if they continue to lose the majority] you can say goodbye to Fianna Fail led Governments for a good few decades.

That said; I'd still question whether any of the opposition have the ability to successfully turn the Country around.

mike65

AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :mad:

"the plain answer is...." ????????!

God almighty he's forgotton how to give a straight reply, its all waffle cos its a waffly good way for distracting the listener as to the lack of substance.

TheSpecialOne

cson wrote: »

Come 2012 [Or indeed quite sooner if they continue to lose the majority] you can say goodbye to Fianna Fail led Governments for a good few decades.

That said; I'd still question whether any of the opposition have the ability to successfully turn the Country around.

Cannot wait for the Election, hope FF get mauled and never return to power. As for the opposition argument i think its a little easy to say, give them a chance....they cannot do the economic damage FF have done to this Country.

Minstrel27

This is the guy who is in charge of the finances for this country. Oh dear.

jank

I can't wait for an election. Yes even Lenny could lose his seat! FF are going to lose about 50-50 seats in the next election.... they know it and nothing can stop it!

cson

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

Cannot wait for the Election, hope FF get mauled and never return to power. As for the opposition argument i think its a little easy to say, give them a chance....they cannot do the economic damage FF have done to this Country.

I think any Political Party would struggle to rival the part in the Economic Destruction of the Country wreaked by the incumbents.

I'd imagine a deep rooted hatred of FF will stay long in the mind of the future electorate [i.e. Your current mortgage holders/Young families/Students/Graduates] and you could well see FF out in the cold for the next 6 General Elections.

That being said, as per my last post I do question the ability of the Opposition to return Ireland to any semblance of prosperity - Labour unable to stand up the Unions, Fine Gael have an in party fight for the leadership every couple years or so.

I know amongst my peers, they will vote for the Opposition out of a hatred for FF rather than what the Opposition can do. And that's not a good thing either. Imo the Country lacks a Political Party of credibility and substance.

jank

Also whats clear now is that whatever about FF treating the Irish people like ****, they also treated the media and RTE like **** too. RTE are going to go after them big time now....

Bob_Latchford

Opposition should call vote of confidence and resign en mass if it is not passed

cson

jank wrote: »

Also whats clear now is that whatever about FF treating the Irish people like ****, they also treated the media and RTE like **** too. RTE are going to go after them big time now....

Wouldn't quite agree there.

Elements of RTE are painfully pro FF. Witness the shambolic interview between Ryan Tubridy and Eamonn Gilmore a few weeks ago.

Plus, INM is pretty pro FF too; the Independent and Sunday Independent are far from scathing of the incumbent establishment.

cson

Bob_Latchford wrote: »

Opposition should call vote of confidence and resign en mass if it is not passed

Chat ya later Democracy eh?

Bob_Latchford

What undemocratic about not wanting to be part of this farce?

You can vote them in again if you want. Time for talking is over, 80% of the country wants these incompetants out. Opposition should do everything possible to achieve this

BostonB

cson wrote: »

... Imo the Country lacks a Political Party of credibility and substance.

++1

Thats been the problem all along. The opposition have really failed all along to take advantage of FF failures over the years. I have no confidence in them either. But I would have got FF out, because being in power so long, its just corrupted everything. FF may have ruined the country. But the opposition played their part in that too.

jank

cson wrote: »

Wouldn't quite agree there.

Elements of RTE are painfully pro FF. Witness the shambolic interview between Ryan Tubridy and Eamonn Gilmore a few weeks ago.

Plus, INM is pretty pro FF too; the Independent and Sunday Independent are far from scathing of the incumbent establishment.

I normally agree but it appears to have changed this week.

BeardyFunzo

Sure don't worry lads, it's just our sovereignty being 'pooled' a little more. No bother.

zootroid

It's taken this long for them to admit they will be applying for a bailout, even after the IMF had come over for talks. Had they admitted this a week ago, they all could have saved a lot of face. Goes to show if they can get something simple like that so badly wrong, what hope did they have of managing the country? Hopefully the presence of the IMF will ensure a lot of the decisions that were made behind closed doors becomes public knowledge.

cson

Bob_Latchford wrote: »

What undemocratic about not wanting to be part of this farce?

You can vote them in again if you want. Time for talking is over, 80% of the country wants these incompetants out. Opposition should do everything possible to achieve this

I'd love to see a source for that. It wouldn't be the "pulled this figure out of air" journal would it?

Not doubting that it's likely a majority of the electorate would like a change of Government but this is a democratic nation and you can't just decide to **** out who you don't like at your wish.

cson

BeardyFunzo wrote: »

Sure don't worry lads, it's just our sovereignty being 'pooled' a little more. No bother.

Sovereignty is an over wrought concept for this country.

We ceded huge swathes of it joining the EU and the Euro and we've benefited hugely from it overall. Europe is vaguely like the USA in that each Country [State in the US] makes it's own fiscal policies and has a certain degree of Autonomy but essentially we are all European.

RGDATA!

cson wrote: »

Come 2012 [Or indeed quite sooner if they continue to lose the majority] you can say goodbye to Fianna Fail led Governments for a good few decades.

I wish. I'd say about 4 years max.

TheSpecialOne

cson wrote: »

Sovereignty is an over wrought concept for this country.

We ceded huge swathes of it joining the EU and the Euro and we've benefited hugely from it overall. Europe is vaguely like the USA in that each Country [State in the US] makes it's own fiscal policies and has a certain degree of Autonomy but essentially we are all European.

But the thing is FF have long claimed to be the Republican Party! Now while they are in Power they are 'Pooling' power to Europe....if FF was the opposition they would shout big republican slogans all day long! We have lost our Economic Independence and without that how can we claim to be Sovereign?

Before today we controlled what we cut/raised taxes on etc...now The IMF and Europe control that. A sad day for the state.

Smiegal

RIP Ireland. How very, very sad.

Mr Benevolent

cson wrote: »

Not doubting that it's likely a majority of the electorate would like a change of Government but this is a democratic nation and you can't just decide to **** out who you don't like at your wish.

Democratic. I like that. Technically this is an elected oligarchy.

Laminations

cson wrote: »

Not doubting that it's likely a majority of the electorate would like a change of Government but this is a democratic nation and you can't just decide to **** out who you don't like at your wish.

Really? So once a government gets in they can do what they want once they have a majority in the Dail? They could take us to war with no recourse from the electorate until the following election, at which time it'd be too late. They could sell all of Ireland to Germany (which is similar to what they have done) and the electorate would have to stay silent in he name of democracy? It approaching fast a time where the government need to be removed whether they like it or not

Bob_Latchford

cson wrote: »

I'd love to see a source for that. It wouldn't be the "pulled this figure out of air" journal would it?

Not doubting that it's likely a majority of the electorate would like a change of Government but this is a democratic nation and you can't just decide to **** out who you don't like at your wish.

Fair enough, lets say a big majority want a change of government. If Ireland had the ability to recall TDs like other countries this government would have fallen. Its undemocratic that they are still clinging to power and lieing if anything.

Of course TDs can say "Im out of this" and resign at any point if they want.

cson

Bob_Latchford wrote: »

Fair enough, lets say a big majority want a change of government. If Ireland had the ability to recall TDs like other countries this government would have fallen. Its undemocratic that they are still clinging to power and lieing if anything.

Of course TDs can say "Im out of this" and resign at any point if they want.

I think they will lose their Dail majority and be out of Government within a year. But orchestrating what is effectively a coup to get them out of Government is about one step away from what happens in 3rd World Africa and remember a majority of the electorate voted them into power at time.

@ Laminations: Have a little read about the functions of the Office of the President before you start spouting sensationalist shite about wars.

blogga

cson wrote: »

I think they will lose their Dail majority and be out of Government within a year. But orchestrating what is effectively a coup to get them out of Government is about one step away from what happens in 3rd World Africa and remember a majority of the electorate voted them into power at time.

@ Laminations: Have a little read about the functions of the Office of the President before you start spouting sensationalist shite about wars.

Talking about coups and wars is sh***.
We are already one step away from one aspect of 3rd world: corrupt groups (see starement of NAMA at dail committee, tribunals, losses passed back to taxpayers) exploiting resources of country for their own benefit.

Bob_Latchford

cson wrote: »

I think they will lose their Dail majority and be out of Government within a year. But orchestrating what is effectively a coup to get them out of Government is about one step away from what happens in 3rd World Africa and remember a majority of the electorate voted them into power at time.

not in anyway a coup (the sudden, illegal deposition of a government), as its fits perfectly happily with Irelands laws and democracy.

mike65

cson wrote: »

I'd love to see a source for that. It wouldn't be the "pulled this figure out of air" journal would it?

17% + 3% = 20% Red C poll result, ergo 80% want this crowd out.

flutered

cson wrote: »

Come 2012 [Or indeed quite sooner if they continue to lose the majority] you can say goodbye to Fianna Fail led Governments for a good few decades.

That said; I'd still question whether any of the opposition have the ability to successfully turn the Country around.

the answer to that will be never known, as the i.m.f. etc are in charge of our economy,

Laminations

cson wrote: »

@ Laminations: Have a little read about the functions of the Office of the President before you start spouting sensationalist shite about wars.

You seemed to ignore this part

Laminations wrote: »

Really? So once a government gets in they can do what they want once they have a majority in the Dail?....They could sell all of Ireland to Germany (which is similar to what they have done) and the electorate would have to stay silent in he name of democracy?

What powers does the president have in negotiating away our economic sovereignity? With the damage FF have done/are doing, by the time next election rolls around in 2012 there wont be an Irish republic to govern

Mr.Micro

FF et al will probably do their damnest now to delay the other bye-elections despite the court ruling in the Donegal one and the pending appeal. It will only come home to roost with the the core FF supporters once the cuts are in place and the measures that the IMF/EU will demand.

just saw live on sky news some dude demanding a by election get arrested
he was shouting and stood in front of a state car

cameras all around

guardian economics guy just on sky news says basically we shouldnt be payin for the banks

Poly

Deleted User wrote: »

just saw live on sky news some dude demanding a by election get arrested
he was shouting and stood in front of a state car

cameras all around

guardian economics guy just on sky news says basically we shouldnt be payin for the banks

Was this in Donegal?
Edit: Found it, it was Hanafin's car

http://www.thejournal.ie/man-arrested-for-blocking-hanafins-car-2010-11/

He'll probably be charged with questioning a minister

force eleven

So just how bad is the run on banks? We are not privvy to the actual outflow from them over the past few days and weeks. If it's really bad, could they close the banks - effectively put them on lockdown until the package is in place? All this talk about the deposits being safe and guaranteed looks shaky even if that's an illusion. I believe absolutely nothing coming from the government, it's all a fiction.